RealGM

Has anyone else noticed that whenever one of these guys has a good game, the other doesn't?

I mean, just looking at the points they scored in each game you can see there's almost never both having good scoring games. Beasley scores 21 against Milwaukee, Darko scores 2. That 5 game stretch when Beasley was the greatest player on the planet? Darko only hit double figures twice and even then it was only 13 and 11 points.

Keep going? Sure. Darko has the best game of his career against San Antonio, Beasley gets 11. The next night it's reversed again against Golden State. The only game I could find where they each had good nights scoring was against LAL on the 19th of November. Both scored +20 points.

It seems to be directly tied to their shot attempts, which seem to see-saw as well. Take the San An-Golden State pair. The first night, Darko has 17 attempts to Beasley's 12. The next night Beasley has 25 to Darko's 10.

So I guess my question is, do you think they can work together offensively? Both seem to need the ball to be effective, is it possible to find a happy medium for both? Or will one have to tweak or even change their game?

noticed it. i don't see either being content with insufficient touches. Not only fga's, but touches. Love's a different story.

shangrila wrote:So I guess my question is, do you think they can work together offensively? Both seem to need the ball to be effective, is it possible to find a happy medium for both? Or will one have to tweak or even change their game?

Yes I think they can. If you look at the game against the Hornets & Nets, Darko seemed pretty effective on the offensive end without needing the ball in his hands. Darko has been playing some smaller minutes due to injury and teams going with a smaller line-up. We seem to be moving the ball a lot better as of late and would like to see Darko get extended minutes but for the minutes he's getting I think he's doing just fine. Also, Darko, Love, & Beasley were all on pace to have a good game against the Knicks until Darko got injured.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekaPmf5RIhM[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXPAx5M7h20[/youtube]

Very interesting observation. I know that I have seen very good personal interactions between them on the court. In particular, Beas seems to talk to Darko when he's down, talk him up and get him going or else comfort him. So that's good. But in a basketball sense, I wonder, how many possessions do both players touch the ball? Do they pass the ball to each other? Hmm..

Not saying this isn't the case, but I think the more realistic explanation is both players are inconsistent and the fact that they rarely have good nights together is one reason our record is as bad as it is.

Also, Darko has been plagued by injuries and foul trouble whereas Beasley has been playing more minutes.

Mr Dew wrote:Not saying this isn't the case, but I think the more realistic explanation is both players are inconsistent and the fact that they rarely have good nights together is one reason our record is as bad as it is.

True...

... and they can certainly "co-exist". This is a great example of development for both Beas and Darko. There seems to be glimpses of the them (and others) being able to identify what's working and what isn't. If we could keep everyone healthy it would help, but more so, it's maturity. We simply have young players who often find themselves trying to play above themselves vs. having the patience to execute. I see all-star type players have streaks during the game where they can appear somewhat passive, then identify opportunities to put up some quick points ... sometimes in bunches. Well, they typically have the patience to execute and identify opportunity. That's Beasley's big challenge, but the signs are there IMO.

Defense is clearly the biggest obstacle keeping this team from clicking consistently and getting more W's. They've both exceeded my expectations, so I find it hard this group of core players can't win once we get a few more pieces.

shangrila wrote:Has anyone else noticed that whenever one of these guys has a good game, the other doesn't?

I mean, just looking at the points they scored in each game you can see there's almost never both having good scoring games. Beasley scores 21 against Milwaukee, Darko scores 2. That 5 game stretch when Beasley was the greatest player on the planet? Darko only hit double figures twice and even then it was only 13 and 11 points.

Keep going? Sure. Darko has the best game of his career against San Antonio, Beasley gets 11. The next night it's reversed again against Golden State. The only game I could find where they each had good nights scoring was against LAL on the 19th of November. Both scored +20 points.

It seems to be directly tied to their shot attempts, which seem to see-saw as well. Take the San An-Golden State pair. The first night, Darko has 17 attempts to Beasley's 12. The next night Beasley has 25 to Darko's 10.

So I guess my question is, do you think they can work together offensively? Both seem to need the ball to be effective, is it possible to find a happy medium for both? Or will one have to tweak or even change their game?

Of course they can co-exist. I think your definition of a 'good game' for Darko is off a bit. He only had 4 games this year above 16pts.

Well they are both "go to men". If you feed your post and he makes the shot you will keep feeding him because he creates pain to the opposition. You will design plays and isolate your big. When Darko gets hot there is no reason to search for alternatives when you already know that K-Love will create his own baskets either of offensive rebounds or from the perimeter.

I just want to ask...

What's Minesotas overall performance when Darko (or other bigs) the stats sheet with big numbers?

That's why i would not go with a small lineup. Especially in times like todays where the good centers are really few.

I was thinking that the new, facilitating Beasley would help with this. The fact is that neither are looking to pass when they're having a good game, or in general really.

iirc rambis wanted darko to decrease his passing and increase focus on his offensive game.

shaolin wrote:iirc rambis wanted darko to decrease his passing and increase focus on his offensive game.

I cant imagine he put it like that. He should pass the ball if its the smart play - if he is being double teamed or someone is cutting/wide open for a shot.

Granted, i expressed it roughly. Still think Darko makes solid decisions from the video's i've seen (i decided not to watch any more Minny games this season as I bring the Darko-suck curse with me every time). Darko is definitely a more willing passer than beasley.

Greco, Minny loses 90% of games when Darko plays very good offensively ,regardless Love/Beasleys game.

Yea, I do not see this as much of an issue. I think Darko is the guy we want to run things through. If he is injured or having an off night then we iso Beasley more. Darko has had a lot of games with nagging injuries. (Makes me see the need to limit his minutes a bit). Beasley has had some foul trouble as well.

The advantage of a motion-type offense like this one is that both guys should be getting plenty of touches. Darko having "touches" should improve the shooters like Beasley.

Greco21 wrote:Well they are both "go to men". If you feed your post and he makes the shot you will keep feeding him because he creates pain to the opposition. You will design plays and isolate your big. When Darko gets hot there is no reason to search for alternatives when you already know that K-Love will create his own baskets either of offensive rebounds or from the perimeter.

This was my thought as well. Beasley is the number 1 option, so when he's hot and making his shots, there's no reason to go away from him and feed Darko. When he's off, they go away from him and dump it to Darko.

shaolin wrote:Granted, i expressed it roughly. Still think Darko makes solid decisions from the video's i've seen (i decided not to watch any more Minny games this season as I bring the Darko-suck curse with me every time). Darko is definitely a more willing passer than beasley.

Greco, Minny loses 90% of games when Darko plays very good offensively ,regardless Love/Beasleys game.

Um.. the Wolves have been losing roughly 90% of their games no matter what.

yes. they can definitely co-exist. it's a part of a young team coming together. darko,beasley and love are our version of the big 3. so if all 3 click on the same night we are a tough team to beat. the only thing it's been hard to get all 3 going. but i think in the future it will be easy for all 3 to coexist because darko is unselfish to a fault. he will pass first and shoot last. darko wants to win more than he wants to put up stats.

This is an interesting thread because I think it may have some truth too it. However, I felt early that I didn't see a lot of passing between Beasley and Love (specifically to set the other up for a shot). Lately I feel like we have seen a lot more of this though. I don't know if I was reading into that situation too much, but I wondered if it had something to do with their mutual desire to be seen as "the guy" on this team. Now I feel that we have seen them work through the "getting used to each other" period, and they are becoming more familiar. Darko has been in and out of the lineup (beas missed a couple games too) so my thought is with time, they will get a feel for each other as well. At least I'm hoping for that. I do not think it is a stylistic flaw that says the two having good games have to be mutually exclusive. Instead it is just a case of 5 parts trying to become one team.

bball_jay wrote:yes. they can definitely co-exist. it's a part of a young team coming together. darko,beasley and love are our version of the big 3. so if all 3 click on the same night we are a tough team to beat. the only thing it's been hard to get all 3 going. but i think in the future it will be easy for all 3 to coexist because darko is unselfish to a fault. he will pass first and shoot last. darko wants to win more than he wants to put up stats.

This is what I was trying to say more or less. I don't think it is Darko just being unselfish though, because Beas IS selfish a lot of the time. I think we need that from him. But a rapport has to be developed between them. It would be different to me if we were saying this after a year or two of them playing together. Once Beas is established as a scorer, and Darko as a post, they should be better. They both are trying to remove the label of bust as well.

I would definitely put that on both of them being very inconsistent. Darko has been hampered by injuries as of late, too.

And to the stat showing that we have lost a bit when Darko has scored a lot, I don't think that argument really holds any ground. Our team just played like **** those nights. When Darko scores, he usually scores very efficiently, and is a defensive presence. I don't really see how he can be a negative out there.

yeah darko and love seem to have a GREAT chemistry, and love and beasley seem to have a pretty good chemistry, hopefully the 3rd wall of the triangle can build up..which i think it will, just need to have more time on the court together.