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Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 6:22 pm
by Krapinsky
Would you add the Memphis pick?
Webster + memphis pick for Mayo?
Both players have a 13.0 PER and similar contracts.
Webster is only one year older, but has the injury history.
Mayo has the Boo-ray and USC scandal history.
Mayo's skill set -- as a shot creator -- seems like something this team needs though.
What say you?
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 6:27 pm
by jpatrick
Why do you think Mayo is a shot creator? He's got a great BBIQ and thus moves the ball well but he has no ability to beat his man off the dribble and create and he is a smallish, bad defensive 2 guard. He also seems to think highly of himself so he's going to be looking to get paid big in the same year we also have to pay Love and Beas.
If you're looking for someone who can create shots from the wing, I take Iggy all day long. He's not the shooter than Mayo is but he can get to the bucket for himself or to dish to others and he's a great defensive player. Granted, he's overpaid slightly but so will Mayo in two years and with Iggy at least he's locked in so he's not leaving via FA.
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 6:30 pm
by UK-Wolf
I really like Webster but his injury history really frightens me, he seems really fragile. I think he could average 15 ppg and continue to be a solid role for us off the bench. He can create shots but on a far less scale compared to Mayo. Mayo's a good scorer, can create shots and is good in the clutch. Totally destroyed us on the perimeter too this year. I'd probably do this seeing as draft classes are getting weaker rather than stronger. Hopefully he can mature into a great player if he comes here, same with Beas.
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 6:30 pm
by Foye
Does Memphis even want Webster?
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 6:33 pm
by funkatron101
I think there is a way to get NY in this trade. For example, if Memphis waived it's protection on the pick and sent it to NY, they would get their wish in getting the asset needed for Melo.
Not sure what Memphis would want from NY though.
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 6:40 pm
by Krapinsky
jpatrick wrote:Why do you think Mayo is a shot creator? He's got a great BBIQ and thus moves the ball well but he has no ability to beat his man off the dribble and create and he is a smallish, bad defensive 2 guard. He also seems to think highly of himself so he's going to be looking to get paid big in the same year we also have to pay Love and Beas.
If you're looking for someone who can create shots from the wing, I take Iggy all day long. He's not the shooter than Mayo is but he can get to the bucket for himself or to dish to others and he's a great defensive player. Granted, he's overpaid slightly but so will Mayo in two years and with Iggy at least he's locked in so he's not leaving via FA.
Does Webster + pick get you Iggy? Probably not. And even then, Iggy is going to cost another 30 million probably over the next two years plus the difference between an extended Mayo and what Iggy has coming.
You're also overating Iggy's ability to take his man off the dribble. You should read up on what Phili posters say about that.
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 6:48 pm
by Krapinsky
Negrodamus wrote:Every time I watch Iggy, I want him traded more. He's a good player but has just terrible shot selection. There are definitely aspects of his game that I would miss, but his fadeaway ridiculous shots will not be missed.
dbodner wrote:He's not nearly as bad of a catch and shoot player as people make him out to be, his main problem was shooting off the dribble, which he's cut back on this year as he's not asked to do as much.
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 7:13 pm
by digitaldropoff
The Grizz will just hang up the phone on that offer. They have no incentive to move him right now....his stock is about as low as it's ever been after the brawl+the fact that because of the Love trade, they're going to ask for more than a wing and pick. Webby or Brew+a pick isn't going to do it. Even though he's not getting the minutes, they still own him and want a lot in return. We would have to up the offer, and I have no idea what they exactly want/need.
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 7:18 pm
by Krapinsky
digitaldropoff wrote:The Grizz will just hang up the phone on that offer. They have no incentive to move him right now....his stock is about as low as it's ever been after the brawl+the fact that because of the Love trade, they're going to ask for more than a wing and pick. Webby or Brew+a pick isn't going to do it. Even though he's not getting the minutes, they still own him and want a lot in return. We would have to up the offer, and I have no idea what they exactly want/need.
There's a big difference between the value of Webby and Brew. The fact that you would lump them together like that sort of tells me all I need to know.
It's also a pretty good pick we're sending back.
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 7:45 pm
by Fire Mchale
I'm not sure I do it simply because I can't sign off on Mayo as a long-term solution at the 2. Webster isn't the solution either, but he's much more willing to play the role of 6th man than Mayo is. I think I would bypass the deal and use that choice as part of what it will take to draft an Alec Burks next year.
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 7:51 pm
by Krapinsky
Fire Mchale wrote:I'm not sure I do it simply because I can't sign off on Mayo as a long-term solution at the 2. Webster isn't the solution either, but he's much more willing to play the role of 6th man than Mayo is. I think I would bypass the deal and use that choice as part of what it will take to draft an Alec Burks next year.
This isn't a solution, it's a punt. Remember when we thought Evan Turner was the answer to our prayers? Well Alec Burks isn't exactly the NCAA's version of Evan Turner. Even if we were in a position to draft Burks, him being the long term solution at the two guard position is a longshot prayer.
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 7:58 pm
by C.lupus
I'm not sure Mayo is the answer for this team, either. We need a SG that can create for himself and play defense (and preferably have good handles). I just don't think Mayo fits that description very well, other than the handles part. I think i'd rather see a third team (NYK, CHI, etc) take Mayo and we get someone else in return (I don't have anybody specifically in mind).
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 8:05 pm
by Krapinsky
C.lupus wrote:I'm not sure Mayo is the answer for this team, either. We need a SG that can create for himself and play defense (and preferably have good handles). I just don't think Mayo fits that description very well, other than the handles part. I think i'd rather see a third team (NYK, CHI, etc) take Mayo and we get someone else in return (I don't have anybody specifically in mind).
So we need Kobe, Wade, or Ginobili basically.
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 8:05 pm
by Fire Mchale
Krapinsky wrote:Fire Mchale wrote:I'm not sure I do it simply because I can't sign off on Mayo as a long-term solution at the 2. Webster isn't the solution either, but he's much more willing to play the role of 6th man than Mayo is. I think I would bypass the deal and use that choice as part of what it will take to draft an Alec Burks next year.
This isn't a solution, it's a punt. Remember when we thought Evan Turner was the answer to our prayers? Well Alec Burks isn't exactly the NCAA's version of Evan Turner. Even if we were in a position to draft Burks, him being the long term solution at the two guard position is a longshot prayer.
Short of getting Kobe, most anyone we bring in will be a punt. I guess it's simply a matter of whether the Wolves want to make a slight upgrade there or do they want to swing for the fences and do better than just an upgrade. We already have a pair of pseudo-stars in Love and Beasley, do we add in Mayo and turn ourselves into Memphis north? Memphis has a better center, similar PF, similarly talented with a different game SF, Mayo and a better PG than us and here they sit at 16-19. I realize that there aren't guarantees with rookies (see everyone drafted the past two years not named Griffin or Wall), but if I have a chance to add a long, athletic, scoring SG with a decent handle but iffy range - I take a shot at it.
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 8:09 pm
by jpatrick
I've watched Iggy 8-10 times this year and he's got a decent handle and ability to get to the rim. The problem is that he acts a little too much like a #1 option there and tries to do too much. I think he'd be perfect here.
I agree that Iggy would cost more than Mayo, both in assets and money, but I just don't see Mayo as much of an improvment, especially given our already existant defensive problems. Maybe I would take a flier on Mayo if he were cheap. We definately need to try and make a change, I sense frustration growing in the coaches and players.
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 8:17 pm
by big3_8_19_21
I think I would do it. It's an upgrade and it gives us someone other than a PG who can handle the ball...plus it puts us a PG away from having an all-2008 draft class line-up capability with Mayo/Beas/Love/Pek
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 8:22 pm
by Fire Mchale
big3_8_19_21 wrote:I think I would do it. It's an upgrade and it gives us someone other than a PG who can handle the ball...plus it puts us a PG away from having an all-2008 draft class line-up capability with Mayo/Beas/Love/Pek
If you're looking for this, wouldn't making a larger deal to get a Monta Ellis make more sense? Neither Mayo or Ellis are great defensively, but Ellis is at least an elite scorer with fantastic handle and the ability to create for others. We don't solve our defensive problems with either player, but we do at least solve some issues with having multiple players who can handle the ball and add another player who can create off the dribble. Mayo can't compare to Ellis in those regards.
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 8:38 pm
by shrink
Krapinsky wrote:digitaldropoff wrote:The Grizz will just hang up the phone on that offer. They have no incentive to move him right now....his stock is about as low as it's ever been after the brawl+the fact that because of the Love trade, they're going to ask for more than a wing and pick. Webby or Brew+a pick isn't going to do it. Even though he's not getting the minutes, they still own him and want a lot in return. We would have to up the offer, and I have no idea what they exactly want/need.
There's a big difference between the value of Webby and Brew. The fact that you would lump them together like that sort of tells me all I need to know.
Ouch. I thought I was the one who got called out for being condescending.
I tend to agree with DD here - I don't think this difference is as big as you think. Yeah, we like Webster, but if you go to other forums, you'll find that there isn't nearly the appreciation for the guy that we have here -- even for teams that could really use him. His deal is OK, and better than an expiring, but people question his health, and don't put too much stock in his limited time here in MIN, but look at his long history of averageness with POR.
For example, take a look through the CHI thread last week on Webster for confirmation. I don't think Webster adds the trade value you believe.
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Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 8:41 pm
by The J Rocka
I think with Webster we already know what we are getting with him. Mayo can still become better, has a chance to be a great player too. Anytime you have the opportunity to go out and trade for a guy with the potential of Mayo I think you go for it. Webster is a very nice piece to have coming off the bench but in the situation we are in, we need to gamble on potential with Mayo. At best, he lights it up for 18-20 ppg & is our franchise starter, at worst, he comes off the bench & replaces Webster.
Re: Mayo for Webster + Pick
Posted: Thu Jan 6, 2011 8:42 pm
by big3_8_19_21
Fire Mchale wrote:big3_8_19_21 wrote:I think I would do it. It's an upgrade and it gives us someone other than a PG who can handle the ball...plus it puts us a PG away from having an all-2008 draft class line-up capability with Mayo/Beas/Love/Pek
If you're looking for this, wouldn't making a larger deal to get a Monta Ellis make more sense? Neither Mayo or Ellis are great defensively, but Ellis is at least an elite scorer with fantastic handle and the ability to create for others. We don't solve our defensive problems with either player, but we do at least solve some issues with having multiple players who can handle the ball and add another player who can create off the dribble. Mayo can't compare to Ellis in those regards.
But...but Monta wasn't drafted in 2008. Yes, Monta is better, but he would probably cost a lot more to get.