Sell Cap Space for Murphy + 2 1sts?

[shrink]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -melo-deal

The Nets have a standing offer of rookie Derrick Favors, two first-round draft picks and Troy Murphy on the table, but last month, sources said the Nuggets aren't interested in Murphy because they would inherit the remaining $8 million on his expiring contract. So the Nets brought in Cleveland and its $14.5 million trade exception.

Denver would have received Favors, Devin Harris and three first-round picks. Cleveland would have received Murphy and one or two first-round picks, and the Nets would have received Anthony, Al Harrington and the Cavaliers' trade exception, the sources said.

I bring up this deal that nearly happened because, obviously, we could replace CLE.

This was interesting:

Beyond the sticking point of Anthony’s accepting or refusing to sign the long-term extension with New Jersey, the deal fell apart because both Denver and Cleveland wanted the 2012 first-round pick the Nets got from Golden State in the Marcus Williams trade. That pick is protected through the first seven slots.

We might be a better intermediary. I'd send the UTA pick to DEN if it meant we got GSW pick.

After that, I wouldn't mind sending Murphy to DAL for Caron Butler (inj) + incentive, hopefully DAL 2012.


This is good news for us. As I've suspected right from the beginning, its further indication that DEN wants to get under the lux since they won't have a contender. There are really only three teams that can easily help them do that .. MIN, CLE, SAC.

[Krapinsky]

Sounds good to me. The Warriors pick would be sweet.

Could we turn that around and trade our four additional firsts + Murphy for someone of the Iggy/Ellis ilk?

[[RCG]]

It might take at least the Memphis pick but I'd be down. If the 2012 draft is as stacked as everyone says and the protection is only the first half of the lottery hopefully the Warriors can be just good enough to have that owed draft pick realized. And don't the Raptors have that TPE as well? They might be an interesting candidate.

[freshie2]

Don't get younger/more draft picks just for the sake of getting younger and more draft picks...at some point the team needs to get better. Rubio is your next young/talented addition, but you can't win living at the bottom of the league defensively.

Look back at the difference the Stackhouse for Ratliff/McKie trade made for the Sixers in the late 90's. They were that 'young and talented team' but never won until they brought in those types of players. Minnesota has more young talent in the right positions than that team, and would appear to have more resource to bring in that type of player(s). Iguodala makes sense, or a player in that mold, but that is the type of deal this team should consider making.

If they keep getting younger and more talented, the currently bogus 'Love wants to leave' headlines may become real. You really hit on the Darko and Beasley moves, but what is the next step to get some more wins before this window for improvement/star player contentment closes.

[Foye]

Get it done KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHN!!!!

[Krapinsky]

Raptors most definitely. Hornets have a $9.6m TPE too, but b/c of the NBA ownership that likely has no chance.

[shrink]

And don't the Raptors have that TPE as well? They might be an interesting candidate.

Nope. The Raptors total salary is only a few mil under the lux themselves, so their TPE won't be used before the trade deadline.

[Fire Mchale]

I have said it before, but I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to have the Wolves utilize that cap space to acquire picks from teams needing to get under the cap. I think this is especially the case if you can get your hands on the GS pick. That's a high-value draft pick, whether it's this year or next IMO. If we work Hayward into deal to rid ourselves of a few guaranteed dollars in a player who just won't get time on this team - I would say all the better.

[the_bruce]

I'm sick of draft picks? We waste them anyways?

I'd be interested in a swing for the fences sort of deal. Where we send something of value to Den for Harris and combine that with a trade for Iggy. Even though I'm not all that interested in an Iggy for Wes swap. I'd need to consider it more...but...Anyway as a quick basis for the trade.

Something Like this...

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=2bh3ugg

Let DEN have all the picks. Toss the Utah pick at them too. Probably not sending flynn out. Work the NYK route for randolph in a seperate trade for Ridnour + MEM pick. Heck Send both flynn and Ridnour out. Harris salary = Flynn + Ridnour. Harris is big enough to play some 2 with rubio next year as well.

MN
Darko\Pek\Randolph
Love\Tolliver\Randolph
Beasley\Iggy\Randolph
Iggy\Webster
Harris\Flynn\Bassy

[Krapinsky]

For some reason I can't get your trade to load, but I don't like Harris as a fit here. I'd rather wait for Rubio and then add Verajao instead of Harris. With Iggy, Love, and Verajao we would have three of the best role players in the game to put around Beasley and Rubio.

Here's probably the very most we would have to give up:

Say you have to trade Johnson + Brewer for Iggy.

Say you have to trade Flynn + Pekovic for Verajao + Miami pick

Miami pick + Utah pick for Randolph

(Rubio)/Ridnour
Iggy/Webster
Beasley/Randolph
Love/Verajao/Randolph
Darko/Verajao/Tolliver

That seems like it could have the potential of say the current Mavs team down the road. That's as close to a championship caliber team as I could see us getting. Plus add whatever prospects we get from our 2011 and the Memphis pick down the road.

[Casperkid23]

Beyond the sticking point of Anthony’s accepting or refusing to sign the long-term extension with New Jersey, the deal fell apart because both Denver and Cleveland wanted the 2012 first-round pick the Nets got from Golden State in the Marcus Williams trade. That pick is protected through the first seven slots.

We might be a better intermediary. I'd send the UTA pick to DEN if it meant we got GSW pick.

After that, I wouldn't mind sending Murphy to DAL for Caron Butler (inj) + incentive, hopefully DAL 2012.


This is good news for us. As I've suspected right from the beginning, its further indication that DEN wants to get under the lux since they won't have a contender. There are really only three teams that can easily help them do that .. MIN, CLE, SAC.

That is an extremely valuable pick shrink. And it's no minor sticking point in the deal getting done... it's the second most valuable asset in the deal in my eyes.

I think it will take the MEM and UTA pick to get the GSW pick. This isn't Phoenix raffling off a lottery pick when they think they are close to a contender, this is a rebuilding DEN team... the cash savings would have to be pretty high to give up an asset like that... and by pretty high, I mean higher than saving them 20mil for one season - but of course I'm not the one footing the bill.

I think it'd be worth it as well. Kahn needs to consolidate his assets.

[Krapinsky]

Does anyone kniow if New Jersey is putting their own 2011 unprotected 1st in the deal to Denver?

If so, that's a heck of a lot ot give up.

[Casperkid23]

Does anyone kniow if New Jersey is putting their own 2011 unprotected 1st in the deal to Denver?

If so, that's a heck of a lot ot give up.

I don't think I've ever seen the word unprotected next to the firsts going out in the deal. It's something to keep an eye out for, however.

I'd assume that Denver would demand the pick to be unprotected as the Nets pick would likely be in the mid 20s in 2012; however New Jersey is probably thinking if they don't make the playoffs this year (they are somehow only 4 games back, however) and they somehow beat the ~1% odds... well... Favors and Kyrie Irving for Melo would make them throw up in their mouths a little; but they'd still have Melo.

In the end I'm thinking it will be unprotected.

[shrink]

Yep - most of the NJN board feels it's overpaying, and I agree too.

The MEM pick is looking more and more like a Top 12 protected 2012 pick. I'd take more salary back if necessary to get the GSW top 7 protected pick, and/or give up UTA, but I wouldn't give up MEM pick.

Finally, keep in mind that DEN has an ulterior motive for getting picks. They want fans to overlook that they are trading Melo for cap space, to put money in an owner's pocket. If they say "Four 1sts!" casual fans aren't going to say "What about that GSW pick?"

I am very low on the value of the prospect we would get with the UTA pick. However, I can think of no team that gets mroe "off-the-books" benefit from it than UTA, simply to mollify fans.

[GopherIt!]

Don't get younger/more draft picks just for the sake of getting younger and more draft picks...at some point the team needs to get better. Rubio is your next young/talented addition, but you can't win living at the bottom of the league defensively.

Look back at the difference the Stackhouse for Ratliff/McKie trade made for the Sixers in the late 90's. They were that 'young and talented team' but never won until they brought in those types of players. Minnesota has more young talent in the right positions than that team, and would appear to have more resource to bring in that type of player(s). Iguodala makes sense, or a player in that mold, but that is the type of deal this team should consider making.

If they keep getting younger and more talented, the currently bogus 'Love wants to leave' headlines may become real. You really hit on the Darko and Beasley moves, but what is the next step to get some more wins before this window for improvement/star player contentment closes.

good post

[Worm Guts]

This trade isn't getting younger though, it's getter older and adding more assets.

[Swish4]

The best (and worst) moves are usually made at the trade deadline. I think we need to simply find the best bargain we can at the deadline regardless of position or need, acquire a valuable assett there and THEN begin to consolidate after the season. I'd like it if we could move some or all of our 2011 picks for players or comparable picks in 2012 and beyond. This draft will probably be very weak.

[shrink]

The best (and worst) moves are usually made at the trade deadline. I think we need to simply find the best bargain we can at the deadline regardless of position or need, acquire a valuable assett there and THEN begin to consolidate. I'd like it if we could move some or all of our 2011 picks for players or comparable picks in 2012 and beyond. This draft will probably be very weak.

I agree with Wes. I also agree with avoiding getting younger .. these picks number one goal would be trade assets. We are simply selling our cap space to a team that needs it most, to get back a better trade asset.

The only reason not to wait for the trade deadline is that there are three teams that could easily do this deal financially, MIN, CLE, and SAC (though the Maloofs are poor). I would take this now so someone else didn't swoop it up. In the end, a Melo deal will all depend on Melo's timing, not on any of ours.

And I'd have Mark Cuban on the phone to try to spin Murphy immediately.

[shangrila]

Looking at the pick owed to New Jersey, they've got Houston's 2012 pick, the Lakers 2011 pick and Golden State's 2012 pick. I'm guessing the "five" draft picks would include their 2011 and 2012/13 picks.

So, also assuming that Denver wants New Jersey's pick this year and Golden State's next year and that's not negotiable, that leaves the LA and Houston picks. But if they added the Utah pick then New Jersey could trade their 2012 pick, I believe, so then I'd be looking for a protected New Jersey 2012 pick and the Houston pick. Then Denver could take whichever they wanted out of the Utah and LA picks.

I'm a little hesitant with this deal though, as Murphy would literally eat ALL of the team's capspace. Is 2 1sts worth it? After that you have to match salary and a lot of the advantages the team has in, say, an Iggy trade would go out the window.

Here's what I came up with instead:

DEN in: Devin Harris, Derrick Favors, 1sts, Sasha Vujacic
NJ in: Carmelo Anthony, Al Harrington
MIN in: JR Smith, single or multiple 1sts

Technically you'd have to do Vujacic and Harrington as a seperate deal but it all works. Denver saves just over 11 mil and gets their 1st. Minnesota would probably only be able to squeeze 1 1st out of this deal but they take on less salary and so keep their flexibility. New Jersey gets what they want, so everyone's happy.

Then we could either keep Smith and test drive him as the SG or call up Dallas and offer them Smith for Stevenson and Ajinca. We get expirings that equal less then Smith (so more flexibility), Dallas gets an answer at SG without having to sacrifice Butler and his bird rights.

[Krapinsky]

In that deal I would rather have Sasha than Smith.