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Interesting things from the SSAC (aka Dorkapalooza)

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Interesting things from the SSAC (aka Dorkapalooza) 

Post#1 » by Krapinsky » Fri Mar 4, 2011 6:32 pm

Is anyone following any of this today?? Twitter is rampant with bits of info leaking from teh conference.

Here's one thing I found interesting:

DraftExpress Jonathan Givony
Teams have equal amount of possessions per game. How can a NBA team increase their efficiency per poss, and thus, chances of winning? #ssac

DraftExpress Jonathan Givony
NBa centers on average lose efficiency dramatically by increasing their usage. Point guards are almost flat. #ssac


This is a good arguement of why the offense should not be run through Darko. Notice that with Darko gone, and the ball in the point guards hands instead, we had one of our most efficient offensive games of the year.
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC 

Post#2 » by prefuse73 » Fri Mar 4, 2011 6:50 pm

I agree mostly. The only time you should run it through your Center is if you have a Shaq (in his prime) or maybe Dwight Howard. Someone who can literally do whatever they want when they want it. If someone can put the ball in the hoop on over 60% of their shots...I mean its just numbers.

However, most can not keep up that high FG% on increased usage due to double teams and hack a shaq.

The only other reason to go through a center is if they have superior passing skills. Darko is someone who posses above average passing skills for his size, but no enough to make him a focal point.

An ideal center for us (or anyone really) would be an athletic/defensive minded C with KLove's work man like attitude. Gets his baskets off of put backs and hustle plays and protects the paint. If they can hit the occassional 20 footer, that would be outstanding bonus. The closest person that reflects this would be Dwight Howard...anyone else.
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC 

Post#3 » by Krapinsky » Fri Mar 4, 2011 7:02 pm

Yeah, you need good decision making to go with good passing. Maybe Darko makes a nifty pass or two here and there. But he doesn't read or feel the defense very well to justify such a high usage rate.
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC 

Post#4 » by GDG » Fri Mar 4, 2011 7:07 pm

Does anyone know if the Wolves have anyone in attendance at this thing? They really really should in my opinion.
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC 

Post#5 » by Krapinsky » Fri Mar 4, 2011 7:10 pm

GDG wrote:Does anyone know if the Wolves have anyone in attendance at this thing? They really really should in my opinion.


According to DX, they passed around a list of teams in attendance and Wolves were not on it, but said others were there that were not on the list.

So maybe?
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC 

Post#6 » by C.lupus » Fri Mar 4, 2011 7:18 pm

Sorry to sound stupid but what is SSAC?
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC 

Post#7 » by Krapinsky » Fri Mar 4, 2011 7:21 pm

It's the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference put on by MIT every year. Simmons calls it "Dorkapaloooza"

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC 

Post#8 » by B Calrissian » Fri Mar 4, 2011 7:24 pm

C.lupus wrote:Sorry to sound stupid but what is SSAC?


Stupid Sounding Apologetic C.lupus

I don't know either
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC 

Post#9 » by eyeteeth » Fri Mar 4, 2011 7:24 pm

Krapinsky wrote:Yeah, you need good decision making to go with good passing. Maybe Darko makes a nifty pass or two here and there. But he doesn't read or feel the defense very well to justify such a high usage rate.

This is important. I think the idea of running the ball through the center at the right or left box has very high potential (a few championships here or there, anyway). But it's REALLY helpful to have Toni Kucoc, Shaq, or Pau be that center. I'm not sure that Darko has what it takes. He hasn't shown it this year.
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC 

Post#10 » by eyeteeth » Fri Mar 4, 2011 7:30 pm

Krapinsky wrote:It's the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference put on by MIT every year. Simmons calls it "Dorkapaloooza"

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/

It generates very odd things like this:
http://deadspin.com/#!5774920
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC (aka Dorkapalooza) 

Post#11 » by Krapinsky » Fri Mar 4, 2011 7:33 pm

DraftExpress Jonathan Givony
Conclusion: Pull starters when in foul trouble (but not superstars in 4th Q). Data oddly says superstars play better in foul trouble. #ssac


Suggests that Refs give NBA players the star treatment. Not really news, but it's interesting that statistics back up that theory.
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC (aka Dorkapalooza) 

Post#12 » by Krapinsky » Fri Mar 4, 2011 7:36 pm

DraftExpress Jonathan Givony
When adding in career averages for players, TS% more telling that eFG%. #ssac
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC (aka Dorkapalooza) 

Post#13 » by Krapinsky » Fri Mar 4, 2011 7:40 pm

DraftExpress Jonathan Givony
JVG just disappointed lots of people in this room, saying he'd choose knowing a player's mental makeup over analytical insights #ssac


Beasley?

Randolph?

Darko?


Uh oh...
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC (aka Dorkapalooza) 

Post#14 » by GDG » Fri Mar 4, 2011 7:56 pm

I like this little saying from JVG...

@johnhollinger
John Hollinger
JVG with"soft, selfish and stupid" rule--you cab be 1 but not 2. #ssac
http://twitter.com/#!/johnhollinger/status/43677509635682304


If Rambis doesn't end up working out, I really think JVG would be a good choice for the Wolves (not just based on this tidbit, of course)
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC (aka Dorkapalooza) 

Post#15 » by Krapinsky » Fri Mar 4, 2011 8:04 pm

GDG wrote:I like this little saying from JVG...

@johnhollinger
John Hollinger
JVG with"soft, selfish and stupid" rule--you cab be 1 but not 2. #ssac
http://twitter.com/#!/johnhollinger/status/43677509635682304


If Rambis doesn't end up working out, I really think JVG would be a good choice for the Wolves (not just based on this tidbit, of course)


Van Gundy would only take job at a contender.
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC (aka Dorkapalooza) 

Post#16 » by GDG » Fri Mar 4, 2011 8:11 pm

Krapinsky wrote:
GDG wrote:I like this little saying from JVG...

@johnhollinger
John Hollinger
JVG with"soft, selfish and stupid" rule--you cab be 1 but not 2. #ssac
http://twitter.com/#!/johnhollinger/status/43677509635682304


If Rambis doesn't end up working out, I really think JVG would be a good choice for the Wolves (not just based on this tidbit, of course)


Van Gundy would only take job at a contender.


You're right. And I also think Iggy would be a good choice for SG, CP3 would be good choice at PG, Howard would be be a good choice at C, and Presti or Morey would be great choices at GM for the Wolves. My "frustrated fan of the Wolves" delusion can be epic at times.
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC (aka Dorkapalooza) 

Post#17 » by Krapinsky » Fri Mar 4, 2011 8:28 pm

Lots of interesting tidbits summarized in an article at SI about statistician Sandy Weil's presentation:

• Back to Weil’s work. He’s the guy whose work has (according to some) debunked the idea that there is such a thing as a “hot” shooter. He joked today that his initial analysis of all this new STATS data – nearly 7,000 charted shot attempts — hasn’t produced anything that would buck conventional wisdom.

But I’m not sure that’s true, or that it even matters. Take this nugget: Kopp took me aside after the presentation and showed me data on the field-goal percentage of players who shoot after receiving passes from specific teammates. San Antonio players, for instance, shoot 60 percent after receiving passes from Tim Duncan. That’s a very high number, Kopp said, and it’s not entirely unexpected, given how much attention Duncan still draws in the post and on pick-and-rolls. But it’s a higher number than the comparable figure for most point guards.

You know whose passes so far this season have also led to a 60 percent accuracy rate for teammates? Monta Ellis, according to what Kopp showed me. The same Monta Ellis most NBA die-hards critique as an inefficient gunner who doesn’t help his teammates all that much. Interesting, no?

• The bulk of Weil’s work focused on how field-goal percentage changes when shooters are guarded closely. Not surprisingly, field-goal percentage drops the closer the primary defender gets to the shooter, and it drops even more the closer a second defender gets to the shooter. Overall, tight defense drops shooting percentage by about 12 percentage points. That’s huge. A tightly contested layup produces about the same amount of points per shot attempt as a wide-open 19-footer, Weil said.

• The other finding that has major implications for your favorite team: Catch-and-shoot attempts are much more efficient than other types of shots when you control for distance and the presence of a defender. A player’s shooting percentage jumps significantly when the last thing he does before the a shot is the act of catching a pass — and not the act of dribbling.

But if you catch a pass and hold the ball for about 2.25 seconds, whatever advantage you gained from catching the pass disappears. This makes sense, since holding the ball gives your defender a chance to catch up to you and prepare to defend your next move.

Think about the argument this data is making against the sort of isolation plays that have made someone like Carmelo Anthony into a star. It doesn’t mean isolations have no place in basketball — not when there’s a clock that limits the time each team has before it must shoot the ball. But this does raise the possibility that this kind of data, as it becomes more accessible, is going to make isolations look even worse than we already know they are.

• One cool thing: Tip-in tries are very low percentage shots. In Weil’s data set, only 22 percent of tip attempts went in. This would encompass all kind of tap-backs — the controlled, two-handed tap, and the desperate whack at the ball in mid-air. He suggests that it would be better to grab the rebound (if you can) and reset the offense.

• Overall, shooting percentage on hook shots is about the same as on jumpers. I find this interesting, for some reason.

• Defenders, it turns out, are very smart in the way they negotiate space. If an offensive player with the ball about 17 feet away retreats by a foot or two, the defender will follow, but not very aggressively. But if that offensive player steps from two-point range to three-point range, Weil’s data shows defenders pursue as closely as they can.

• Another bit of conventional wisdom Weil’s work confirms: Teams shoot a better percentage on possessions that start with a defensive rebound or a forced turnover. But once you dig even deeper, you find that the higher shooting percentage on these possessions only really exists if the team shoots quickly — early in the shot clock, before a defense can get set.

This would indicate that teams that try to force lots of turnovers, such as the Grizzlies and Celtics, might be making a smarter calculation than we realize. It also justifies the urgency with which a lot of point guards command their teammates get their butts moving after a defensive rebound.


http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/03 ... d-metrics/
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC (aka Dorkapalooza) 

Post#18 » by eyeteeth » Fri Mar 4, 2011 8:28 pm

Pritchard: 5 years ago analytics played 5% into trades. Now its communicating the analytics to owners. Won't ever take over eye. #ssac
...
Cuban: Not all teams talk equally to each other. Continues to maintain that biggest value of analytics is on coaching front.


These are very interesting points. Clearly, the game we got out of AR wasn't anywhere in his stats at NYK, and that is almost always going to be an advantage that intuitive analysis has over statistics. That said, we can look at the combinations of players that any team puts out on the floor and use advanced stats to augment our sense of what is and isn't working.
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC (aka Dorkapalooza) 

Post#19 » by Saltine » Fri Mar 4, 2011 8:32 pm

This is intriguing;
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... holy-grail
The future of basketball analytics is underway and Sandy was providing some of the first results from it. This great new data is from Stats, LLC, as they have added multiple cameras (hence the optical in the title) to 3 NBA courts, with the sole intention of recording everything that occurs on the court. Players are tracked, with an exact location in x,y coordinates, as are referees and the ball. 25 times a second, software analyzes the video, and stores information about where everyone is and what is occurring. 1,000,000 entries per game with 60 some games added to their databases so far. Basic things like field goal attempts, blocks, rebounds, and assists are part of what is tracked. And that’s where it starts getting really cool – player position and defender proximity to a player are now available without having to chart and track a game by hand and eyeball estimates.

The focus of Weill’s research this time was on distance – from the rim and from defenders – and the impact on field goal percentage. Stats, LLC’s new tool provides exactly that, as Sandy was able to look at over 6,000 field goal attempts with the knowledge of where the shot was taken and the distance from defenders. Yes, plural defenders, as the range from all defenders is available, giving the ability to recognize double teams and an oncoming defender.

The three primary results of Weill’s poring through the data and accounting for things like historical player shooting percentages, distance, and shot type:
-Tight defense (within three feet) drops expected shooting 12% points (ie – a 50% shot becomes a 38% shot)
-FG% drops 1% point for every 1.5 feet from the rim
-There is something beneficial about the catch and shoot, beyond expectations

It’s that last one that is most fascinating to me: There is now empirical proof that crisp ball movement can result in a better outcome for the offense. Weill’s data showed that even when accounting for the defender’s proximity, the field goal percentage on catch and shoot plays was higher than expected for the distance of the shot. The new optical data is detailed enough to give the knowledge of how a player got the ball, how long he had it, what the last action was before a shot (dribble, pass, etc), and where the defense was a second before a player received the ball and then as he catches it.
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Re: Interesting things from the SSAC (aka Dorkapalooza) 

Post#20 » by Rolf » Fri Mar 4, 2011 8:37 pm

GDG wrote:I like this little saying from JVG...

@johnhollinger
John Hollinger
JVG with"soft, selfish and stupid" rule--you cab be 1 but not 2. #ssac
http://twitter.com/#!/johnhollinger/status/43677509635682304




A while ago I heard of a magazine editor who had a plaque above his door inscribed with the words, "Fast. Good. Cheap." He told the writers who worked for him that they can keep their jobs as long as they are always 2 of the 3. Kind of the same as JVG's rule, if you swapped the negative tense for positive: "Aggressive. Selfless. Smart." Fill your team with players who are 2 of the 3.

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