What does a healthy Webster give us (aka Web V Johnson)

Post #1 » by **revprodeji** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:20 am

Two questions.

1.) What does a healthy Webster provide this team? I am of the understanding that he is not fully healed yet from his back surgery and all indication is that he will be healed after the summer. So what are realistic expectations of him healthy?

2.) What does Johnson provide us that a healthy Webster does not already do? Johnson is only 7 months younger. I am not sure they can play together.

Krapinsky · Post #2 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:26 am

I'd like to see Webster as the starting 2 and Johnson as a Marion style backup 3/4.

Post #3 » by **revprodeji** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:30 am

Can Webster defend the SG? He does not look like it this year but that could be the injury. Perhaps a Portland fan could help us.

Stephen Litel told me that Johnson provides much more upside. Do you agree? He is only 7 months younger and I am not sure how much better of an athlete he is.

AQuintus · Post #4 » by **AQuintus** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:31 am

1) Tough to say. In preseason he definitely looked like our best wing and even our best player at times, but that might just be a statistical outlier because since then he's pretty much regressed back to his career averages.

2) Johnson is a significantly better athlete which means that he should work better on the break with Rubio or Irving, and he also has better defensive tools. They're both similar as shooters. Webster has much better handles (but still not great).

Overall, if they can't play together at all, I'd rather keep Johnson because Webster probably is what he is at this point. Johnson could potentially be much better than what he's shown with more transition opportunities, an offensive system and role that actually fit him (and aren't terrible), and a PG giving him easy looks. With that said, I don't see why the wouldn't be able to play together.

Edit:

Krapinsky wrote:I'd like to see Webster as the starting 2 and Johnson as a Marion style backup 3/4.

Johnson barely has enough bulk to play the 3 spot. There's absolutely no way he wouldn't be pushed all over the court playing the 4.

Devilzsidewalk · Post #5 » by **Devilzsidewalk** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:58 am

Johnson looks much quicker on defense and uses his length well, but uses his athleticism not one iota on offense. As for Webster, whether he's injured or not, either he's inconsistent or he has a serious back problem. Neither one is that encouraging. I've fallen for the big April month too many times to think Webster is on some upswing.

AQuintus · Post #6 » by **AQuintus** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:00 am

Devilzsidewalk wrote:Johnson looks much quicker on defense and uses his length well, but uses his athleticism not one iota on offense.

I'm kind of hoping that our new coach (Rambis can't be brought back, can he?) will get Johnson more involved in cutting to the basket and lobs at the rim. Both of those will allow him to use his explosiveness a lot more. With Rubio Johnson will also be used more in the running game (he literally can't be used less right now) which should also help a lot.

Krapinsky · Post #7 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:06 am

Webster is at least aggressive, tries all the time, and has some BBIQ. Maybe Johnson can develop into something greater than what Webster is now, but it's not like if we decide to keep Johnson over Webster we can trade Webster for anything useful. At this point Webster would just be trade filler. Perhaps the best option is neither as the starting two guard, Webster as a decent bench player, and Johnson as trade bait to find a starting shooting guard or an upgrade at center, with Verajao or Bogut as the center targets and Mayo or Iggy (or Barnes!) as the SG of the future.

Devilzsidewalk · Post #8 » by **Devilzsidewalk** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:08 am

He's okay by comparison. Still not worth that 5 and a half mil imo

Krapinsky · Post #9 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:32 am

5.5 million doesn't buy a lot in todays NBA. If we got Webster at 5.5/year in last years free agency he would have been a bargain.

Tirion · Post #10 » by **Tirion** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:41 am

it still mind-boggling to me that Kahn traded #16 AND Gomes for him AFTER he drafted Wes Johnson.

southern wolf · Post #11 » by **southern wolf** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:56 am

Webster is and always has been horribly inconsistent. Obviously Wes hasn't been a beacon of consistency either, but I think he will offer a lot more in the long run. He's got the ability to be a pretty decent nba defender with his length and he's got a hell of a lot more athleticism than Webster. It's a little depressing to think Wes is only 7 months younger though.

Post #12 » by **Klomp** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:14 pm

What does LeBron provide Miami that Wade doesn't already bring? I know its at a completely different level, but skillset duplication isn't necessarily a bad thing.

With a guy like Rubio on the way, I think our FO clearly identified the type of wings they want.

Post #13 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:16 pm

Klomp wrote:What does LeBron provide Miami that Wade doesn't already bring? I know its at a completely different level, but skillset duplication isn't necessarily a bad thing.

.

We're not talking about skillset duplication, we're talking about lack of skill duplication which is definitely a problem.

Post #14 » by **Klomp** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:34 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
Klomp wrote:What does LeBron provide Miami that Wade doesn't already bring? I know its at a completely different level, but skillset duplication isn't necessarily a bad thing.

.

We're not talking about skillset duplication, we're talking about lack of skill duplication which is definitely a problem.

If you don't think they have skill, I think you may have a problem of your own.

Post #15 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:42 pm

I'm not saying they totally lack skill, I'm saying the skills they lack are the same. They have similar weaknesses.

Post #16 » by **C.lupus** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:11 pm

Portland fans will tell you that Webster has always teased with his talent but has always been inconsistent and injury plagued. I guess it's possible that the back issue has been the root cause of his incosistency and other injuries throughout his career but it is equally possible that one surgery will not totally correct that or be a permanent fix.

Johnson is still a big question mark. He has the shooting ability and the defensive ability and the athleticism. His biggest problem this year has been the lack of aggressiveness. Is that who he is or is that an artifact of him playing out of position in Rambis' triangle (or rhombus or tetrahedron or whatever the heck it is) and just thinking to much instead of reacting. I don't know but I think at this point I'd rather keep Johnson and get a different coach - if I had to choose between the two.

Esohny · Post #17 » by **Esohny** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:22 pm

Whether to trade one of them kind of depends on what you could get in a trade for either of the two (and include Beasley there as well).

I think Johnson has more value, but his value has taken a hit. Webster isn't going to bring anything.

Post #18 » by **revprodeji** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:27 pm

Klomp wrote:What does LeBron provide Miami that Wade doesn't already bring? I know its at a completely different level, but skillset duplication isn't necessarily a bad thing.

With a guy like Rubio on the way, I think our FO clearly identified the type of wings they want.

Your insight is becoming less and less insightful. I almost think you are being sarcastic.

Lebron has the size to defend the SF position. He is also a plus defender, gets to the FT line and creates for others.

Wade has the size and speed to defend the SG position. He is also a plus defender, gets to the line at a ridiculous rate and creates for others.

The places they are duplicating are positives to have for your team. The fact that they defend different positions allows them to play with each other. C'mon Klomp...you are better than this.

Dewey · Post #19 » by **Dewey** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:37 pm

Webster has had several years to show something other than a mediocre reserve status ... some players break out a little later than others, but there's just really nothing that has ever wowed me about him. I clearly value Johnson more in pretty much all phases.

Webster is currently an expendable reserve player, but I'd like to see what he's got coming into next season health. I think he deserves one last shot, but I certainly will not pay MORE to see it.

I think once we get this team in the right direction, Johnson will eventually be a very solid player whether he starts or comes off the bench will depend on his ability to handle the ball ... reserve is likely.

Lastly, I'm disappointed in Rambis and how he has managed players. He clearly has a system that he is abiding to, but his way of measuring accountability for his players or staff has me completely baffled, so I'm cautious to cut any player short.

Devilzsidewalk · Post #20 » by **Devilzsidewalk** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:21 pm

Krapinsky wrote:5.5 million doesn't buy a lot in todays NBA. If we got Webster at 5.5/year in last years free agency he would have been a bargain.

correction, 5.5 million doesnt buy a lot for the stupid teams in the NBA

but for smart teams, look at the Thunder locking up Sefolosha for 3.5 mil, Bulls get Ronnie Brewer for 4.5, GS picked up Dorell Wright for 4, theres decent deals out there.

Webster was a bad contract even before the back issues, Kahn got hosed by a mediocre GM that already knew he was getting fired, thats pretty impressive