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How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:53 am
by SixerFan4Life
I was thinking of a deal centering around Iggy for Johnson. Do you guys view him as having a lot of potential still? I've never seen him play (besides in YouTube highlights) but from the game logs he seemed to have picked it up toward the end of the year.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:04 am
by Krapinsky
He has a high ceiling, but he has a long way to go to get there and he's already 23.
Iggy for Johnson + Pekovic or Darko (salary filler) is a deal from our end.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:38 am
by Devilzsidewalk
they have to take Flynn too. I mean, they get to have Flynn too - LUCKY SON OF A GUN!
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:48 am
by GopherIt!
no not Flynn! (bad cop)
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:48 pm
by Esohny
Krapinsky wrote:He has a high ceiling, but he has a long way to go to get there and he's already 23.
Iggy for Johnson + Pekovic or Darko (salary filler) is a deal from our end.
Yeah, I take that deal.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:22 pm
by Ruhiel
Esohny wrote:Krapinsky wrote:He has a high ceiling, but he has a long way to go to get there and he's already 23.
Iggy for Johnson + Pekovic or Darko (salary filler) is a deal from our end.
Yeah, I take that deal.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:26 pm
by prefuse73
personally, i would rather pair Iggy WITH johnson some how, but you have to give to get I guess.
I would rather trade Beasley, Flynn, Pekovic for Iggy. Beasley and Young would fit together well for them. It also frees up Turner to play SG. Hawes/Beasley/Young/Turner/Holiday
FreeAgent - Darko
Love - Randolph
Wes - (Iggy, AR), Hayward.
Iggy - Webster
Irving (draft) - Ridnour
now we have to do something with Rubio/FA money to get our Center.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:15 pm
by Devilzsidewalk
personally I'd rather get rid of both and replace them w/ Iggy and Ellis (pipedream)
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:46 pm
by Krapinsky
Why would anyone want to trade Beasley over Johnson? Nonsense in my opinion.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:53 pm
by Esohny
Devilzsidewalk wrote:personally I'd rather get rid of both and replace them w/ Iggy and Ellis (pipedream)
That would be pretty nice, but it would take the top 4 pick to even have a chance.
Which I would probably get behind depending on the rest of the deal.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:32 pm
by champalift
Krapinsky wrote:Why would anyone want to trade Beasley over Johnson? Nonsense in my opinion.
I agree. Beasley is younger and has a higher ceiling.
I don't really understand why so many want to get rid of Beas. The guy is so young and so talented that with maturity he could be GREAT. I see Wes as a very solid player with time, but he has no where near the potential of Beas.
If it is between Beas and Wes... peace out Wes.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:59 pm
by Worm Guts
Krapinsky wrote:Why would anyone want to trade Beasley over Johnson? Nonsense in my opinion.
Because Johnson is a better defender, which means if we find "the guy" Johnson would probably be the better fit.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:25 pm
by AQuintus
Worm Guts wrote:Because Johnson is a better defender, which means if we find "the guy" Johnson would probably be the better fit.
Johnson is better, but it's close. (all of this is from Mysynergysports.com)
Johnson - 0.92 PPP
Beasley - 0.95 PPP
ISO
Johnson - 0.75 109 attempts
Beasley - 0.69 118 attempts
P&R Ball Handler
Johnson - 0.93 100
Beasley - 0.75 51
Spot Up Shooting
Johnson - 0.95 236
Beasley - 1.03 331
Beasley is the better man defender, but Johnson is significantly better at guarding spot up shooters, both as a result of Rambis' defensive system and Beasley still having the PF mentality of over helping on drives.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:48 pm
by Klomp
Krapinsky wrote:Why would anyone want to trade Beasley over Johnson? Nonsense in my opinion.
Because we lost more of our games on the defensive end than on the offensive end.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:50 pm
by Krapinsky
AQuintus wrote:Worm Guts wrote:Because Johnson is a better defender, which means if we find "the guy" Johnson would probably be the better fit.
Johnson is better, but it's close. (all of this is from Mysynergysports.com)
Johnson - 0.92 PPP
Beasley - 0.95 PPP
ISO
Johnson - 0.75 109 attempts
Beasley - 0.69 118 attempts
P&R Ball Handler
Johnson - 0.93 100
Beasley - 0.75 51
Spot Up Shooting
Johnson - 0.95 236
Beasley - 1.03 331
Beasley is the better man defender, but Johnson is significantly better at guarding spot up shooters, both as a result of Rambis' defensive system and Beasley still having the PF mentality of over helping on drives.
For one, if Johnson is a better perimeter defender than Beasley, it's not by much. Johnson was truly abysmal all year except for one bad game by Kobe Bryant.
Second, these offensive statistics are meaningless. It's like comparing Kobe's % with Derek Fisher's. One player was asked to force the issue, the other player would sit at the 3 point line and wait for an open shot.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:52 pm
by Krapinsky
AQuintus wrote:Worm Guts wrote:Because Johnson is a better defender, which means if we find "the guy" Johnson would probably be the better fit.
Johnson is better, but it's close. (all of this is from Mysynergysports.com)
Johnson - 0.92 PPP
Beasley - 0.95 PPP
ISO
Johnson - 0.75 109 attempts
Beasley - 0.69 118 attempts
P&R Ball Handler
Johnson - 0.93 100
Beasley - 0.75 51
Spot Up Shooting
Johnson - 0.95 236
Beasley - 1.03 331
Beasley is the better man defender, but Johnson is significantly better at guarding spot up shooters, both as a result of Rambis' defensive system and Beasley still having the PF mentality of over helping on drives.
In what world did Johnson have 9 less ISO attempts than Beasley? I call BULL****.
EDIT: It's defense. I'm an idiot.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:53 pm
by AQuintus
Krapinsky wrote:For one, if Johnson is a better perimeter defender than Beasley, it's not by much.
First, that's literally what I just said in the post you quoted.
Second, these offensive statistics are meaningless.
Second, those are actually their defensive points per possession, aka how many points per possession they give up in those particular situations.
Johnson is the better defensive player overall (but not by much), while Beasley is better in ISO and P&R situations.
Edit:
Krapinsky wrote:In what world did Johnson have 9 less ISO attempts than Beasley? I call BULL****.
Beasley - 482 ISO opportunities on O, 109 on D
Johnson - 47 ISO opportunities on O, 118 on D
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:56 pm
by Krapinsky
AQuintus wrote:Krapinsky wrote:For one, if Johnson is a better perimeter defender than Beasley, it's not by much.
First, that's literally what I just said in the post you quoted.
Second, these offensive statistics are meaningless.
Second, those are actually their defensive points per possession, aka how many points per possession they give up in those particular situations.
Johnson is the better defensive player overall (but not by much), while Beasley is better in ISO and P&R situations.
Haha, my bad Aquintus. I'm trying to work and surf at the same time. Caught me skimming. Those stats seem more realistic now.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:58 pm
by AQuintus
Krapinsky wrote:
Haha, my bad Aquintus. I'm trying to work and surf at the same time. Caught me skimming. Those stats seem more realistic now.
No prob.
Re: How much do you guys value Wes Johnson?
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:55 am
by karch34
If Johnson is a better defender, it's not by much. I am all for Johnson, Flynn, and Darko/Peko for Iggy. If we can do it without a pick going out, even moreso.