Det/Min

Blkbrd671 · Post #1 » by **Blkbrd671** » Thu May 19, 2011 6:14 am

Hey guys and gals,

Greetings from the pistons board. i have proposal for you guys and just wanted to get some Wolves fans opinion. This was already proposed on the trade board, but i wanted to get an overall opinion not just ones from a couple fans.

BG + #8

for

Flynn, AR and #20 plus fillers(webster?, anyone but darko =p, )

Flynn needs a change of scenary especially after last season. AR is a good prospect we can pair with Monroe, and #20 allows us to continue our youth movement

BG is still a great scorer and finisher, he also needs a change of scenary. You guys get the best player in the trade and you guys move up 18 spots.

Rubio
Gordon
Wesley
Love/Williams
Biyumbo/Miliic

What you guys think?

B Calrissian · Post #2 » by **B Calrissian** » Thu May 19, 2011 6:20 am

No thanks from me. How about Flynn/Pek/Tolliver/20 for BG/future 1st?

Blkbrd671 · Post #3 » by **Blkbrd671** » Thu May 19, 2011 6:25 am

We're more after AR than after flynn. and i know for a fact piston fans aren't willing to give up any future 1strounders, with exception of this one, as we're rebuilding.

B Calrissian · Post #4 » by **B Calrissian** » Thu May 19, 2011 6:29 am

Blkbrd671 wrote:We're more after AR than after flynn. and i know for a fact piston fans aren't willing to give up any future 1strounders, with exception of this one, as we're rebuilding.

Makes sense. I wouldn't trade AR for the 8th pick so him being involved is a no go. But thats me, others think a lot less of him than I do.

Blkbrd671 · Post #5 » by **Blkbrd671** » Thu May 19, 2011 6:44 am

Thanks for your opinion, appreciate it , i know every team AR has been on has been really high on him, but for some reason he's always traded. ha ha

shangrila · Post #6 » by **shangrila** » Thu May 19, 2011 7:22 am

That's true, but I think our FO wants to see what he can do here with a training camp, especially after he finished the season so strong. So while I don't think they'd turn down a good offer, I doubt they're going to be shopping him either.

And I don't want Gordon anywhere near this team.

Foye · Post #7 » by **Foye** » Thu May 19, 2011 7:27 am

I'm not really a fan of Ben Gordon. He gets paid like a starter but is a 6th man. :dontknow:

shrink · Post #8 » by **shrink** » Thu May 19, 2011 12:39 pm

Foye wrote:I'm not really a fan of Ben Gordon. He gets paid like a starter but is a 6th man. :dontknow:

True, and you know money is an issue for him, after he refused to stay in CHI. Worse, I think his size would be a big problem for our team that already has issues with it's defensive perimeter.

I do not put positive trade value on Gordon, and I wouldn't give up AR in a deal for him.

Krapinsky · Post #9 » by **Krapinsky** » Thu May 19, 2011 1:38 pm

I originally proposed a modification of this trade on the trade board.

Gordon + 8

for

Randolph, Pekovic, Flynn, Webster

My thoughts:

1) Randolph is not a long term fit next to Love and Beasley if he's going to be anything but a role/bench player.
2) Gordon's production > Pekovic, Flynn, Webster's production
3) Gordon fits a need. He's a SG with playoff experience. His defense is very underrated if you look at the numbers.
4) At 8, the hope is that we could get Biyombo.
5) This trade "trims the fat" and gives us a nice 9-10 man rotation.

Rubio/Ridnour
Gordon/Johnson
Beasley/Williams
Love/Tolliver
Biyombo/Darko

Williams would probably play more of a 3-4 role off the bench and Tolliver would play an emergency situations.

Swimmer · Post #10 » by **Swimmer** » Thu May 19, 2011 2:48 pm

^I'd consider the above if Biyombo was available at 8.

shangrila · Post #11 » by **shangrila** » Thu May 19, 2011 3:07 pm

Krapinsky wrote:3) Gordon fits a need. He's a SG with playoff experience. His defense is very underrated if you look at the numbers.

Which numbers are you looking at? Reference.com has him at 115, 114 and 112 the last 3 years, which is worse than Love over the same time.

Krapinsky · Post #12 » by **Krapinsky** » Thu May 19, 2011 3:18 pm

shangrila wrote:
Krapinsky wrote:3) Gordon fits a need. He's a SG with playoff experience. His defense is very underrated if you look at the numbers.

Which numbers are you looking at? Reference.com has him at 115, 114 and 112 the last 3 years, which is worse than Love over the same time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those numbers are the team defense when he's on the floor.

His opponent PER on 82games is better than anything we have on our team.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10DET3.HTM

karch34 · Post #13 » by **karch34** » Thu May 19, 2011 3:22 pm

Agree with Krapinsky. I like AR, but question the fit long term. Gordon's contract isn't great, but I think he could be a nice fit next to Rubio. If we don't give the #20 we could conceivably package it with #8 to move up to get Biyambo too.

PeeDee · Post #14 » by **PeeDee** » Thu May 19, 2011 3:36 pm

Does Ben Gordon + Rubio = Juan Navarro + Rubio?

eyeteeth · Post #15 » by **eyeteeth** » Thu May 19, 2011 3:38 pm

Randolph did have a really great game against Detroit late in the season, didn't he. That was pretty sweet.

I don't think DK does this, just b/c he worked so hard to get AR and hasn't seen what he can do yet.

That said, AR is a roster challenge for us. Love+Tolly+AR=not enough minutes. In fact, I think in order to really blossom, AR will need to be a starting PF somewhere, and we really already have one of those. I continue to think he will fill out enough physically to play C, but I'm not sure he has a C's game. It's a tough situation.

I think I personally might do some version of this trade, because it does fix some of this logjam, but I seriously doubt the Wolves would.

shangrila · Post #16 » by **shangrila** » Thu May 19, 2011 3:50 pm

Krapinsky wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but those numbers are the team defense when he's on the floor.

His opponent PER on 82games is better than anything we have on our team.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10DET3.HTM

Ah, true.

But then his 12.6 PER looks pretty bad.

Breakdown777 · Post #17 » by **Breakdown777** » Thu May 19, 2011 4:25 pm

am i the only one who would rather have rip over gordan? i think we could get rip without giving up AR, which is something id like better. rip + 8 for flynn,pek,20?

Krapinsky · Post #18 » by **Krapinsky** » Thu May 19, 2011 4:42 pm

Hamilton has one less year on his deal, but he's 5 years older. I was thinking Ben was a player we could keep around for awhile and hopefully we'd have a team with some chemistry for a change.

The key is getting Biyombo at #8 though. Adding Gordon/Hamilton, Biyombo, Williams, and Rubio in one off season would be pretty sweet.

Post #19 » by **revprodeji** » Thu May 19, 2011 4:53 pm

We know he can score. The question is if he can defend the SG spot.

Height is an issue. 6'3 is small for a long-term SG starter.

His reach is 8'3

That is the same as Marcus Thornton, Eric Gordon, 1/2 an inch smaller than OJ Mayo, It is an inch bigger than Monta Ellis. Two inches more than Randy Foye.

So his reach should be ok. What about wingspan? 6'8.5

Bigger than Brandon Roy, Evan Turner.

So we cannot just disregard him as too small. Can he defend the SG?

shrink · Post #20 » by **shrink** » Thu May 19, 2011 4:55 pm

Breakdown777 wrote:am i the only one who would rather have rip over gordan? i think we could get rip without giving up AR, which is something id like better. rip + 8 for flynn,pek,20?

I'm with you. While others could be frustrated to come here, Rip would probably be grateful to just get out of DET.

I've always admired his tireless engine, and that might be something he could pass on to come of our youth.

Finally, it's unlikely, but possible that Rip could be moved at the next trade deadline to a contender to escape the final year of his contract. Both players would be an issue though, with $12+ mil on the books in 2012. HOWEVER, if the new CBA contains an Allan Houston exception, Rip's $9 mil buy-out would be a nice tool for Glen Taylor to keep us from paying extra lux taxes when we try to give new deals to Beas, Love and Randolph .. especially if we add a salary like Bogut or Iguodala

I agree with Krapinsky though that whether we're talking Gordon or Hamilton, the key would be getting Biyombo at 8. If he's not there, I don't want either deal.