RealGM

What's veteran, 4 seasons experience? Who are the best veteran guards we could pick up? Not about contracts or teams or anything like that, just basketball skills, age, etc.

I know lots of people here like Iggy, I think we've got that covered. Who else is out there?

i'd literally throw all our available cap(6-7 mil?) at afflalo this off season...i'm sure they'll match pretty much anything but i'd at least try.

The main thing I question about the rumored deal with the Cavs and Pistons, why not just cut the Cavs out of it and take Rip Hamilton and the 8th pick off the Pistons hands for the 20th, Flynn, Pekovic and Beasley?

Its not like the Wolves couldn't use a starting SG which Hamilton would give them for a couple years before his expiring became a valuable chip itself. I mean it looks to me like they could certainly swing Johnson's and Webster's to SF with little trouble.

They're still free to draft Kanter at #2 as the center of the present and future with Darko behind him. They also get to take a shot at either Bismack, Leonard or Burks at #8 with it being highly unlikely that all three would be gone.

Can't say I'm big fan of that trade. I'm not sure I'd trade Beasley straight up for the 8th pick, let alone throw in 20 and take back Rip. I think we want to trade the #2 instead of just taking the 3rd best player in arguably a 2 man draft.

Since I doubt that Kahn/Taylor are going to pay for a vet on a big deal, I think the best semi-realistic options are Afflalo or Mayo.

JMillott wrote:why not just cut the Cavs out of it and take Rip Hamilton and the 8th pick off the Pistons hands for the 20th, Flynn, Pekovic and Beasley?

Because adding in Beasley and taking back Hamilton makes it a significantly worse deal for us.

I think you drastically are overrating Michael Beasley and even more importantly flatout ignoring three years of NBA evidence that his only legitimate NBA position is at PF where the Wolves certainly don't have enough minutes for him.

The guy has shown no signs of being able to be a good defensive SF in terms of team defense or in terms of his man to man in my opinion with his only positives on that end of the floor being solid rebounding and that not many SF's are going to try and post him up.

Offensively he doesn't project any better as a SF either because he was only a average at best ball handler and passer for the PF position and he is down right awful at it for the SF spot. He requires a lot of touches to come up with basically 20-22 points and 3+ turnovers and 3- assists.

We have three years of data showing that he has been drastically outplayed at SF and we have three years of data showing he can more then hold his own at PF. Why continue the charrade?

Either he moves to a sixth man role where he can focus on carrying the offensive load for a second unit and likely spend much of his time matched up with other back up PF's or you trade him to a team that can actually start him at PF.

Its certainly quite clear that he can't be paired with Love at forward and it would likely drive Love out of town if they go small with Love at center. So why hold onto a guy that if he is around is going to eat 20+ possesions a game for 22 points? I mean hell even a young Antoine Walker gave his teams 4-6 assists and 8-10 rebounds while playing defense when playing with that type of inefficiency.

JMillott wrote:why not just cut the Cavs out of it and take Rip Hamilton and the 8th pick off the Pistons hands for the 20th, Flynn, Pekovic and Beasley?

Wow, just wow. Horrible trade of epic proportions.

Krapinsky wrote:

JMillott wrote:why not just cut the Cavs out of it and take Rip Hamilton and the 8th pick off the Pistons hands for the 20th, Flynn, Pekovic and Beasley?

Wow, just wow. Horrible trade of epic proportions.

Wow, just wow. How can a trade be epicly bad if you don't give up a single meaningful asset and manage to free up three wasted roster spots?

Is it because Rip Hamilton is overpaid and older? If it is, i'd like to point out that paying a old SG who can actually play and should be making 7-9 million a year instead of 12 million is better then paying three guys the same money who can't help a team win games. Besides he has two years left on his deal and could be a very valuable expiring a year from now, maybe even valuable enough to get into next years draft.

Beasley is useless here next to Love as he has no value as a SF in my eyes, in the stat books or in terms of what teams were willing to part with for him last summer when he was coming off being a second option for a playoff team, you think putting up an insanely inefficient season on a 17 win team upped his value?

Flynn is dead in the water in terms of value after his two seasons here wasting away in a system that goes against anything he could've brought to the table.

Pekovic has a little value but again not much because of his age and contract nobody is going to exactly view him as a value based on that rookie season.

Hamilton is past his prime but i've got no doubt part of his recent struggles come from the Pistons not carrying a freaking PG on their roster with an off the ball SG who makes 12 million a year since they traded Billups.

If the number eight can land them either Leonard or Biyombo which for me would be the hope it could transform the team defensively giving them either an elite paint protector or a perimeter stopper.

Not to mention it gets Beasley and Flynn out of town which is a major plus.

I'm glad you're not the GM.

The J Rocka wrote:I'm glad you're not the GM.

Me too. I don't know how someone can lump Beasley with Flynn.

In what world does Michael Beasley have positive value?

JMillott wrote:In what world does Michael Beasley have positive value?

Are you mad? He's 22 years old and was 20th in the NBA in scoring.


Out of the 19 players that averaged more points per game than Beasley, only one is younger than him -- Blake Griffin. (by 2 months)

And even Blake Griffin scored at a slower rate per 36 min. 21.4 vs. 21.3

The best vet shooting guards is kind of a short list when you think about who would actually be willing to play here and demand a buyout. Here's my list of all SG in the league, in order of how I'd value them.

Kobe
Wade
Ginobli
Terry
Ray Allen
....you know what, this is stupid and I don't have enough time right now, So I give up.

I'm still convinced the only options the Wolves have are Iggy, Kevin Martin, Rip Hamilton, Ben and Eric Gordon (Eric is iffy, but when you have the #2 pick you can work magic), Jason Richardson, Monta Ellis, OJ Mayo, Brandon Roy, Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, Stephen Jackson?

So yeah, after the ugly contracts, budding all-stars, and players who don't fit the team....Theres OJ Mayo and Iggy?

JMillott wrote:In what world does Michael Beasley have positive value?

Earth. (couldn't resist).

I think you just need to realize that while many of us here overvalue Beasley, you are undervaluing him.

Why don't we put our heads together and work out a compromise? Just because (according to you) Beasley and Love can't coexist, doesn't mean you auction Beas off to the highest bidder. I think a better way to get value is to wait for teams to call us about him, and then up the ante to see how much we can get. If we go around shopping him, then what we can receive obviously drops.

He needed 17.1 shots to average 19.2 points and posted a -37 in assist to turnover ratio with a negative PER +/- of 6.2 at SF which is the position the Wolves can offer him to play. This is the exact same guy whom the Heat couldn't get anything for a year ago accept a second round pick.

High usage, inefficient scorers who don't bring elite attributes or even average ones to the table in any other phase of the game aren't valueable. In fact they are exactly the kinds of players that lead teams to lose 60+ games a year.

His only value in this league is to a team that can play him at PF and seeing as how he couldn't handle the role of complimenting an MVP caliber year from Dwyane Wade at that position i'm going to say he doesn't have much value and he certainly has no value for a team with Kevin Love, Anthony Randolph and Anthony Tolliver already at the position.

Throw in that by moving him you open the door for Wesley Johnson, Martell Webster and perhaps a defensive stalwart like Kawhi Leonard in the trade I suggested and its an epicly bad idea how?

Perhaps you should try and be a little more realistic about the value of the Wolves players because hardly any of them have any.

So much baloney I don't even know where to begin.

He's 22! He was learning a new position. In a new offense! He's going to get more efficient. If you don't think he has positive value, then you're mad. Auction him off on the trade board. You'll get lottery pick offers.

Miami only got a 2nd for him because they needed CAPSPACE and we were one of the few team that could offer that.

Krapinsky wrote:

The J Rocka wrote:I'm glad you're not the GM.

Me too. I don't know how someone can lump Beasley with Flynn.

Me three.

Krapinsky wrote:So much baloney I don't even know where to begin.

He's 22! He was learning a new position. In a new offense!

His volume numbers and efficiency were also significantly better early in the year before he started spraining his ankles, and they were starting to go back up at the end of the year when he was finally getting healthy again.

Krapinsky wrote:So much baloney I don't even know where to begin.

He's 22! He was learning a new position. In a new offense! He's going to get more efficient. If you don't think he has positive value, then you're mad. Auction him off on the trade board. You'll get lottery pick offers.

Miami only got a 2nd for him because they needed CAPSPACE and we were one of the few team that could offer that.

The Heat were desperate to drop him because Pat Riley was smart enough to admit when he makes a mistake and try to get out of it. You think he just happens to keep calling the Wolves when its time to dump his mistakes?

By all means though blame the system for a guy who was basically given free run to be a ball hog being unable to succeed with any type of consistency or efficiency. You are the same guys that turned on Al Jefferson even though he was playing out of position for you, without any real talent around him and was vastly better then Beasley, right?

If Kahn can use Beasley's inflated scoring numbers from a year of straight chucking on a 17 win team to give him the value to dump two guys making almost 8 million next year and Beasley's 5.5 while getting an actual SG and a mid lottery pick it would be a great move.

It doesn't cost them anything long term really, it gives Kahn a re-do on his wasted lottery pick on Flynn, gets them out of Pekovic's contract so they don't have a combined 9 million spent on their second and third string centers once they draft Kanter and makes way for two of his other moves to play their more natural positions in Wes Johnson and Martell Webster more often.

Wesley Johnson and Martell Webster couldn't be worse fits on the wings then they are right now next to Michael Beasley.