Page 1 of 2
For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 4:09 am
by younggunsmn
# I think it will be one of many things they look at. RT @WillLentzKSR: Will any GM's will look at those tapes and decide to pass on Kanter? about 8 hours ago
# Kanter isn't working out against anyone. Only doing one on zeros. That teaches you what? RT @TurkishHoops By watching his predraft workouts? about 8 hours ago
# What will you judge him off then? RT @TurkishHoops: You can't judge Kanter by watching the games he played when he was 17. about 8 hours ago
# Kanter also shows some very impressive stuff offensively. Moving guys around in the paint. Great hands. Soft touch.Range out to 3-point line about 8 hours ago
# For people asking, these Kanter games are from a year and a half ago. There's nothing from this season because he just didn't play. about 8 hours ago
# No idea. Depends if they watch this? Hearing there's tons more out there. RT @Mac_Diego: i think that guy meant sliding down the draft board about 8 hours ago
# Hasn't bent his knees once. If he's even in the frame having bothered getting back on defense. RT @yowhatupT: Do you see him sliding at all? about 8 hours ago
# Putting together some edits of the games I'm watching to give you guys an idea of what I'm seeing here. Should be up in next day or two. about 8 hours ago
# I wasn't as high on Kanter as other media people prior to watching this, but now I'm legitimately concerned. Transition will be significant. about 8 hours ago
# Watching some of the other Kanter games now. Pretty much the same story. Not putting any effort in. Playing zero defense. Not boxing out. about 8 hours ago
# retty much all GMs have to go off of except his Hoop Summit performance? RT @TAL_ESQ: how much value can that video have on his talent now? about 12 hours ago
# I don't know if he's just tired here or what but he looks really lethargic playing vs very weak competition. Getting destroyed on defense. about 12 hours ago
# Some new game footage of Enes Kanter is circulating from his prep school days. I'm watching one game now. It's fairly underwhelming stuff. about 12 hours ago
From DraftExpress.com
http://www.draftexpress.com/twitter.php#ixzz1OYxV6B4thttp://www.draftexpress.comFinally someone who's watched some actual game film on this guy. Confirms what I've noticed on the limited video I've seen of his workouts. Slow, Robotic, doesn't bend his knees well. I think it would be a HUGE mistake to put this guy next to Kevin Love. HUGE mistake. The worst thing we could do would be to draft him at 2, or even trade down for him unless it meant getting something really nice like Iggy. Give me an athletic, lengthy guy like Valanciunas with a high motor, who can fly up and down the court, finish above the rim, and has played multiple seasons against high-level european competition. You can't tell crap from watching a guy working out against air. Kosta Koufos had a nice looking jumper too. If Kanter reminds me of anyone, it's a slightly better coordinated Koufos.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 4:20 am
by C.lupus
I agree. I've been trying to like Kanter because everyone else seems to but the more I see of him the less impressed I am. I'd much rather take a gamble on Biyombo or go with Jonas.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 4:29 am
by rennytwentyone
C.lupus wrote:I agree. I've been trying to like Kanter because everyone else seems to but the more I see of him the less impressed I am. I'd much rather take a gamble on Biyombo or go with Jonas.
If I could retract your words and call them my own, I would, therefore I am quoting you.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 4:34 am
by TheProdigy
Questionable defense and motor is not someone to pair with KLove. This is disappointing because I thought Kanter was distancing himself from the other big men in this draft.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 4:39 am
by illyasova
Draft express is for sure so biased against Kanter. I have never heard anything positive from them. He already tweeted Kanter just hides his defense deficiensies by workin out against zero but Chad Ford tweets now:
Enes Kanter will workout against Tristan Thompson & Marcus Morris in Cleveland tomorrow. Kanter's 1st workouts against competition
So i guess tomorrow will be huge for decision and his stock.
Ps: Some also say Kanter's manager is trying to drop Kanter's stock off to play him in Washington. We already know he prefers to play next to John Wall due to Kentucky connection.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 4:41 am
by TheProdigy
illyasova wrote:s: Some also say Kanter's manager is trying to drop Kanter's stock off to play him in Washington. We already know he prefers to play next to John Wall due to Kentucky connection.
His manager should be fired immediately if that's the case.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 4:42 am
by rennytwentyone
I was reading those tweets today as well, and while it did seem like non-stop rippage on Kanter, it was mainly on defense saying he didn't look like he was trying hard, and that he was stiff. They did go on to
say he looked very impressive on offense though..
"# Kanter also shows some very impressive stuff offensively. Moving guys around in the paint. Great hands. Soft touch.Range out to 3-point line about 8 hours ago"
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 6:28 am
by Peezo
I still want Kanter. There is nothing you can tell me about Kanter that makes me think D Williams is going to be a better fit on this team. I'd rather move the pick, but realistically, if we are there at 2, he should be the guy IMO. I'd rather we take Kanter and appreciate the fact that we do have AR and Beas to add depth and athleticism to the frontcourt. Give me Kanter!
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 6:50 am
by wildvikeswolves
Peezo wrote:I still want Kanter. There is nothing you can tell me about Kanter that makes me think D Williams is going to be a better fit on this team. I'd rather move the pick, but realistically, if we are there at 2, he should be the guy IMO. I'd rather we take Kanter and appreciate the fact that we do have AR and Beas to add depth and athleticism to the frontcourt. Give me Kanter!
Better fit? Maybe. Better player? No
I believe this is a 2 player draft, you have Kyrie and DW then a gap to Kanter. I've been saying all along that we should draft and keep DW. DW is a really good fit with Rubio and Love and I see plenty of minutes to go around for DW, Beasley, and Love.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 8:09 am
by shangrila
How many elite talents actually try in high school?
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 10:22 am
by IAmTheTruth
I've always liked Biyombo better anyway. A saavy site like DX agreeing with me just cements my opinion even further. It's quite possible that Kanter will never play a lick of defense and his knees could be gone before he even hits his prime. Stay away.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 11:37 am
by jade_hippo
bad knees scare me, but didn't his knees check out just fine at the combine? a few years ago some Roy guy's didn't and his draft stock tanked so we traded him away for a guy with backwards organs.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 12:57 pm
by Worm Guts
Don't worry about fit with Love, just take the best player. Lack of interior defense will kill your championship hopes, but lack of talent is why you win 17 games. And while Love is a good player, probably our only good player, he's not our savior so lets not draft around him.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 12:58 pm
by phonzadellika
Please, Kahn, please, just draft Derrick Williams.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 4:13 pm
by shangrila
Doesn't anyone else think this is an insane double standard they're setting here? I mean, the breakdown video of Derrick Williams has him as the last guy down the court in transition defence almost every single time, and Griffin didn't play defence at all during his time in Oklahoma.
Would it have been nice to see him outhustling guys half as talented as him? Sure, but that just doesn't happen in high school-esque ball period.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 5:51 pm
by SSUBluesman
younggunsmn wrote:You can't tell crap from watching a guy working out against air.
Are you sure about that?
younggunsmn wrote:Confirms what I've noticed on the limited video I've seen of his workouts. Slow, Robotic, doesn't bend his knees well. I think it would be a HUGE mistake to put this guy next to Kevin Love. HUGE mistake.
Nothing is more indicative of how weak this draft is (at the top) than the fact that the possible first 2 picks played a handful of games between them. That Irving is a #1 and Kanter is a top 5 (and probable top 3) is disheartening.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 8:48 pm
by eyeteeth
I am just not certain that this is really a "two player draft." I am very leery of groupthink and conventional wisdom, and that is exactly what this is. Just a phrase everybody repeats without having the expertise to arrive at the conclusion themselves, but since everyone is saying it, it's safe for anyone to say. Then it becomes taken for granted as obvious, but really it's a subjective assessment of a fuzzy reality. Do not follow the herd, people.
In reality, if you ask me, this is either a one or zero player draft, if you are talking about guaranteed impact. I think Kyrie Irving is more like a 75% than a sure thing and Williams probably more like a 55%. Kanter I think is more like 60-65% likely to have a significant impact, just because those post moves in combination with a jumpshot are a really tough combo to defend against.
Williams I think will be able to get about half of his game off. He has a good one-dribble move and some amazing putbacks. Most of the times that he dribbles more than once he's going to struggle in the pros, though, at least for the first few years. And I don't think his defense is going to stand up against the stronger or quicker of the NBA 4s. And he is not an NBA 3.
So I don't care what DX says, my preference is still 1) trade the pick, preferably for a player plus a 7-10 pick and, 2) Kanter.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Tue Jun 7, 2011 10:12 pm
by moss_is_1
That is somewhat disappointing to hear but, I'm still on board with taking him at #2, but like everyone else I'm hoping we aren't going to be at #2 anyway.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Wed Jun 8, 2011 5:20 am
by younggunsmn
SSUBluesman wrote:younggunsmn wrote:Confirms what I've noticed on the limited video I've seen of his workouts. Slow, Robotic, doesn't bend his knees well. I think it would be a HUGE mistake to put this guy next to Kevin Love. HUGE mistake.
Nothing is more indicative of how weak this draft is (at the top) than the fact that the possible first 2 picks played a handful of games between them. That Irving is a #1 and Kanter is a top 5 (and probable top 3) is disheartening.
This is a really weak draft. I put Irving and Williams at about 5-6 in a normal year (9-10 in a year like 2008). Kanter is late lottery in a normal year.
But hopefully we can get a team so psyched about Williams they drastically overpay for him.
And sample size is a huge issue. Jonas has the most experience against high level competition of anyone talked about in the top 5. That should be a red flag right there about the weakness of this draft.
Givony has been one of the best outside evaluators for quite a few years now. If he said Kanter wasn't stiff or could play D I might have to re-evaluate my opinion. This just reinforces what I already thought. He had some interesting comments regarding it being much wiser for teams to do their due diligence watching tons of tape versus relying on workouts, and why that is contributing to workouts fading in popularity (the combine is pretty much a joke). I have to agree with him that it's much more important to see these guys in a team setting. Workouts and visits are pretty much just getting a better feel for someone's size and personality. (IE Cousins confirming he was an immature douche at his combine interview with us last year).
Kanter may have nice post moves against poor competition, I doubt they translate as well to the NBA because he just looks incredibly stiff. Pekovic absolutely DESTROYED better competition than Kanter has played against and he saw a pretty big dropoff in offensive efficiency last year.
I think Rebounding, length, energy, and Defense translate better, which is why I think Jonas Valanciunas's skill set is going to translate much better, and I think his offensive game is underrated as he wasn't used a whole lot on that end by Lietuvos, he was used mostly as a screener/garbage man.
.
Re: For Kanter Lovers: DX panning him on twitter
Posted: Wed Jun 8, 2011 8:04 am
by AQuintus
younggunsmn wrote:
I think Rebounding, length, energy, and Defense translate better,
.
Which is exactly why moving back to get Biyombo is the correct choice.