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In reading the boards here and other sites, there is a growing concern about how RAs rotations and how they are starting to cost us wins. I am fairly neutral cause the team is doing better than last year but it sure looks like they have lost several games this year due to the rotations. It would be interesting to get some opinions both from Wolves fans on this year and fans from Hous, Sac and other places he has coached. Has his rotations been a problem in the past?

Northcoastmnfan wrote:In reading the boards here and other sites, there is a growing concern about how RAs rotations and how they are starting to cost us wins. I am fairly neutral cause the team is doing better than last year but it sure looks like they have lost several games this year due to the rotations. It would be interesting to get some opinions both from Wolves fans on this year and fans from Hous, Sac and other places he has coached. Has his rotations been a problem in the past?

I think the main problem is that all of our wings just plain suck. If anyone of them was even below average this wouldnt be an issue. But yea, I think not having Pek in the 4th and sticking 3 pgs in the lineup definteily cost us the knicks game

This loss was on Adelman.. Played Barea too much.. didn't play Pek when we needed a basket.. tough loss

We missed a TON of easy shots last night in the 4th quarter, and when they were not missing shots they were throwing the ball away. You can't pin that on Adelman.

As far as the rotations, this was a cluster-**** of a mess to begin with. At the start of the season we had Love as the PF. At every other position ther were legitimate arguments as to who should start. And with that shortened training camp and only 2-preseason games there wasn't enough time to figure out who could play better with who. Then since the season started we've had injuries like crazy. And outside of Rubio and Pek, not one player on the team has stepped up and said "I should be the one you are playing". Everyone has been so inconsistent. How in the heck is anyone supposed to figure out a rotation with all that mess going on?

He's relying on too many players lately...love played 43 mins and was obviously done with a couple of mins to go in the 4th Q.

playing Luke at sg for the whole game kills us. Almost every shooting guard kills us every game.

We need a Shooting guard NOW!

weasel wrote: Everyone has been so inconsistent. How in the heck is anyone supposed to figure out a rotation with all that mess going on?

Adelman doesn't have to be perfect, but he has to notice a few obvious things for me to stop complaining.

1. Ridnour only works at the 2 when he is hitting shots, when Ridnour isn't confident with his jumper you have a problem on both ends of the floor (defensively it is obvious you are in trouble against most teams, all they do is post up Ridnour and find easy baskets).

2. Barea is out of the flow right now and should have limited minutes at this point.

3. Pekovic has been under-used late in games when we need offense.

4. If Darko can't play, Anthony Randolph should get minutes

5. Wes can't figure it out playing with the starters, Beasley seems mentally out of it playing with the reserves. Beasley can get better looks playing with Rubio and Love, so I think he should be starting.

6. Martell Webster can hit open shots from long range and is a great perimeter defender, how Ridnour/Wes are out there playing next to Rubio rather than Webster is baffling to me.

Starters need to be:

Pek
Love
Beasley
Webster
Rubio

If we use 2 PG, it should be Ridnour/Barea for short stretches and depending on the opponent's lineup.

Use Wes to come off the bench and defend the opponent's best bench wing, Williams/Ellington/Barea can provide enough offense off the bench, and Tolliver/Darko/Miller should be used sparingly.

This would obviously win more games than whatever it is Adelman's trying to do.

DrEvil1996 wrote:

weasel wrote: Everyone has been so inconsistent. How in the heck is anyone supposed to figure out a rotation with all that mess going on?

Adelman doesn't have to be perfect, but he has to notice a few obvious things for me to stop complaining.

1. Ridnour only works at the 2 when he is hitting shots, when Ridnour isn't confident with his jumper you have a problem on both ends of the floor (defensively it is obvious you are in trouble against most teams, all they do is post up Ridnour and find easy baskets).

2. Barea is out of the flow right now and should have limited minutes at this point.

3. Pekovic has been under-used late in games when we need offense.

4. If Darko can't play, Anthony Randolph should get minutes

5. Wes can't figure it out playing with the starters, Beasley seems mentally out of it playing with the reserves. Beasley can get better looks playing with Rubio and Love, so I think he should be starting.

6. Martell Webster can hit open shots from long range and is a great perimeter defender, how Ridnour/Wes are out there playing next to Rubio rather than Webster is baffling to me.

Starters need to be:

Pek
Love
Beasley
Webster
Rubio

If we use 2 PG, it should be Ridnour/Barea for short stretches and depending on the opponent's lineup.

Use Wes to come off the bench and defend the opponent's best bench wing, Williams/Ellington/Barea can provide enough offense off the bench, and Tolliver/Darko/Miller should be used sparingly.

Agree with everything that was said here.

When you have a team where the majority of players suck, fans are always going to think the guys that didn't play were better. It's the back-up quarterback corollary. You'd expect a lineup with 5 of our top 6 scorers and our four best ball handlers to do well offensively and struggle defensively. What we got was poor ball movement and guys that couldn't hit their shots -- yet somehow that's all Adelman's fault. We gave up only 18 points in the 4th quarter, which was our best defensive quarter of the game.

Look at the big picture. We're 13-15 under Adelman. I think we've met or surpassed just about everyone's expectations from the beginning of the season, yet some here would have you believe that with a different coach we'd have the second best record in the west. It's just not realistic.

Krapinsky wrote:When you have a team where the majority of players suck, fans are always going to think the guys that didn't play were better. It's the back-up quarterback corollary. You'd expect a lineup with 5 of our top 6 scorers and our four best ball handlers to do well offensively and struggle defensively. What we got was poor ball movement and guys that couldn't hit their shots -- yet somehow that's all Adelman's fault. We gave up only 18 points in the 4th quarter, which was our best defensive quarter of the game.

Look at the big picture. We're 13-15 under Adelman. I think we've met or surpassed just about everyone's expectations from the beginning of the season, yet some here would have you believe that with a different coach we'd have the second best record in the west. It's just not realistic.

I don't think anyone thinks we need a new coach but even though 13-15 is decent, I believe it should be better, he does use questionable rotations that have cost us at least a couple of wins.

DrEvil1996 wrote:

weasel wrote: Everyone has been so inconsistent. How in the heck is anyone supposed to figure out a rotation with all that mess going on?

Adelman doesn't have to be perfect, but he has to notice a few obvious things for me to stop complaining.

1. Ridnour only works at the 2 when he is hitting shots, when Ridnour isn't confident with his jumper you have a problem on both ends of the floor (defensively it is obvious you are in trouble against most teams, all they do is post up Ridnour and find easy baskets).

2. Barea is out of the flow right now and should have limited minutes at this point.

3. Pekovic has been under-used late in games when we need offense.

4. If Darko can't play, Anthony Randolph should get minutes

5. Wes can't figure it out playing with the starters, Beasley seems mentally out of it playing with the reserves. Beasley can get better looks playing with Rubio and Love, so I think he should be starting.

6. Martell Webster can hit open shots from long range and is a great perimeter defender, how Ridnour/Wes are out there playing next to Rubio rather than Webster is baffling to me.

Starters need to be:

Pek
Love
Beasley
Webster
Rubio

If we use 2 PG, it should be Ridnour/Barea for short stretches and depending on the opponent's lineup.

Use Wes to come off the bench and defend the opponent's best bench wing, Williams/Ellington/Barea can provide enough offense off the bench, and Tolliver/Darko/Miller should be used sparingly.

This would obviously win more games than whatever it is Adelman's trying to do.

Totally agree that Ridnour is a complete blackhole when he is not hitting his shots. I'm as big a fan of Webster as there is on this board, and I would love to see him start, but he absolutely has not earned it yet (I say that knowing that Ridnour hasn't earned it either). Webster has turned the ball over more often than he hits the open jumper so far. There was a moment in the previous game when Adelman had Rubio/Webster/Beas/Williams/Love on the floor. That's my dream lineup with this team, but they didn't get it done.

Krapinsky wrote:When you have a team where the majority of players suck, fans are always going to think the guys that didn't play were better. It's the back-up quarterback corollary. You'd expect a lineup with 5 of our top 6 scorers and our four best ball handlers to do well offensively and struggle defensively. What we got was poor ball movement and guys that couldn't hit their shots -- yet somehow that's all Adelman's fault. We gave up only 18 points in the 4th quarter, which was our best defensive quarter of the game.

Look at the big picture. We're 13-15 under Adelman. I think we've met or surpassed just about everyone's expectations from the beginning of the season, yet some here would have you believe that with a different coach we'd have the second best record in the west. It's just not realistic.

This.

Webster really isnt the answer. His D really is not impressive because he is simply not that quick and tries to body players way too much and he is just not a smart player.

Webster's problem is that he tries to make the flashy, difficult play way too often and is just incredibly turnover prone. Not to mention that he simply cannot finish at the rim. He loves doing this dipsy doo crap that never works. Sure, he can shoot the ball alright, but he will kill you with his other terrible play

We simply do not have anything close to resembling a competent SG

Adelman gave a pretty good post game analysis, albeit not a very optimistic one.

http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/ga ... 02_11.html

Piecake wrote:Webster really isnt the answer. His D really is not impressive because he is simply not that quick and tries to body players way too much and he is just not a smart player.

Webster's problem is that he tries to make the flashy, difficult play way too often and is just incredibly turnover prone. Not to mention that he simply cannot finish at the rim. He loves doing this dipsy doo crap that never works. Sure, he can shoot the ball alright, but he will kill you with his other terrible play

We simply do not have anything close to resembling a competent SG

Glad to read that someone else is having the exact same WTF-why-do-this-many-people-talk-up-Martell? experience as me.

It's a big unbalanced mess out there. I feel bad for Adelman that he doesn't have a two guard that won't absolutely get shredded, much less flirt with quality. Thank god for Pek, or we would have even more rotation problems with the bigs.


But I really think Adelman is trying to up trade value. He HAS to be. I've just NEVER seen anything like it. Webster doesn't play THAT bad where he gets a DNP. Sorry. Not even on a B2B.

Barea is, at best, a gimmick player. And right now he's playing like garbage.

Ridnour at the 2 is yeilding tons of baskets to every marginal shooting guard who comes in here. If he's not on he's usually off, and gives you virtually nothing on O.

And Adelman just loves them both over Webster and Ellington. No hot hand, cold hand. Just play Barea and Ridnour.

It sucks.

(Also, there's a part of me that thinks Adelman is playing these guys because in the long run, it doesn't matter too much and it's basically a giant FU to Kahn. I don't know why. Anyone else sense that possibility?)

Glad to read that someone else is having the exact same WTF-why-do-this-many-people-talk-up-Martell? experience as me.

It's a big unbalanced mess out there. I feel bad for Adelman that he doesn't have a two guard that won't absolutely get shredded, much less flirt with quality. Thank god for Pek, or we would have even more rotation problems with the bigs.


But I really think Adelman is trying to up trade value. He HAS to be. I've just NEVER seen anything like it. Webster doesn't play THAT bad where he gets a DNP. Sorry. Not even on a B2B.

Barea is, at best, a gimmick player. And right now he's playing like garbage.

Ridnour at the 2 is yeilding tons of baskets to every marginal shooting guard who comes in here. If he's not on he's usually off, and gives you virtually nothing on O.

And Adelman just loves them both over Webster and Ellington. No hot hand, cold hand. Just play Barea and Ridnour.

It sucks.

(Also, there's a part of me that thinks Adelman is playing these guys because in the long run, it doesn't matter too much and it's basically a giant FU to Kahn. I don't know why. Anyone else sense that possibility?)[/quote]

The only thing I can figure out is that they decided that winning is not important this year but if that was the case, I would think Derrick Williams would be getting more minutes. Maybe your on to something with the Kahn thing. I sure hope something changes soon cause I'm getting pretty frustrated watching them lose games that they should win.

Don't know why Adelman would be giving Kahn a big FU. He came out of retirement to coach this team and he knew the personnel on it. I might buy the trade value angle, though.

IMO Adelamn is kind of thinking about mid term for the team. Sure we could get a win or two more playing the guys who look better right now because multiple factors.

But if he stick with a unit without messing enough with all the players, we can end trading pieces without knowing if they can be developed once we finally have a real coach. In any other season this could be tried and figured out during the preseason and the first month.

But in this one, I think Rick and Kahn will need the full season in order to evaluate the talent we have and how can fit in the best way, trading and signing in consequence. Even if we make the postseason it's not like we are contenders, so I prefer some losses for a better decision making in the future that allow us to be contenders some day.

I know we all are impatients after years of frustation, but we better don't rush and take things slowly to make wise moves. We are close, and every step is important, not just the one that abrought players such as Kevin or Ricky. Being closer doesn't mean being in a hurry.

BTW, forgive my english, european poster here, way before RR came.

I'd take DW over Wes, Webster, Beas, Tolliver, and AR right now as the SF/PF 6th man without a blink of the eye. My assumption is that Adelman/Kahn agree. I think once we have experienced other rotations and/or make a trade at the deadline to improve SG, Williams will play a more consistent role the second have of the season.

If Adelman and/or Kahn think we are okay and just need time ... the excitement would be over and mark the 'beginning of the end". The reality is we are not very good, and I say that because with various players getting more time, they have not improved. We have average to below-average players playing extended minutes. period.

Ridnour? 8-12 guy ... a role player and nothing more.
Ellington? 8-10 guy ... could be a good backupbut has never seen a consistent role.
Wes? 10-12 guy ... a year and half and I've seen nothing special.
Webster? 10-12 guy ... a desperation plea for hope.
Beasley? 6-10 guy ... until he can show me that he can win with defense, value is low.
Tolliver? 12-15 guy on a roster for cheap depth
AR? 12-15 guy on a roster for cheap depth

Until we can play without turning the ball over, Adelman will continue to run lineups out there with 2 or 3 ballhandlers. 49 turnovers in the past two games is INEXCUSABLE.

Klomp wrote:Until we can play without turning the ball over, Adelman will continue to run lineups out there with 2 or 3 ballhandlers. 49 turnovers in the past two games is INEXCUSABLE.

Good point, with only few turnovers less, and a 3-5 points win instead of 2 points loss, everybody would be far less pessimistic now