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Poll limit date : October 10

yes, by a million jillion miles

I said 2011-12 because : I trust in Love-Rubio-Williams , but Pekovic still must demonstrate he can play as his best games of last season.

And Darko (first half season), Webster, Ellington, Tolliver and Beasley are better players than the 2012 new guys.

And we need more physical in the paint

And we need more athleticism in backcourt and frontcourt

And Darko (first half season), Webster, Ellington, Tolliver and Beasley are better players than the 2012 new guys.

Que?

THis season, my expectations is for LESS ups and downs ... more consistent play night in and night out. Last season you never really knew who was going to show up and play. For Adelman, guys like Darko, Beas, AR, Web, Ellington, etc. were like ping pong balls in the lottery when he went to the bench ... close your eyes ... pick one ... and hope.

Worm Guts wrote:

And Darko (first half season), Webster, Ellington, Tolliver and Beasley are better players than the 2012 new guys.

Que?

Hombre,

Darko did good games in the first half of the season. In fact, I think he was the best player in the Clippers game (love buzzer beater). I don't think Stiemsma or Amundson can do this kind of games.

Tolliver and Randolph played well the first games of the season.

I think Ellington was a valid player.

and Beasley is better than Budinger.

We got better at every position. The only surefire rotation player we lost was Beasley and he was never going to grow up here. Brought in 2 former All-Stars in Roy and AK47, who may be getting old and achey, but still have lots to offer. Add in Budinger and Cunningham, who easily are upgrades over Wes and Martell, and the team is looking good on the wing. Lastly, we amnestied Darko and replaced him with Stiemsma and Amundson. Not sure how one could think last year's roster is even close to this years....

Center: Pek returns after his breakout year. Kept scoring even when Rubio went down. Trade Darko for Stiemsma, which is another upgrade. BETTER in '12-13

PF: Still have the games best 4 in Love. Replaced two mercurial backups in Beasley and AR with Kirilenko, Dante Cunningham, Amundson and William is a year older, and hopefully, better, BETTER in '12-13

SF:Signed Kirilenko who is a great fit. Lost Beasley, Webster, Wes. Also signed Chase Budinger and Cunningham can play at the 3 as well. More versatility, intangibles and athleticism. BETTER in '12-13

SG: Well we can always start last years best 2, Ridnour. But preferably we go w/ Brandon Roy, who is said to be healthy or Shved, who dominated elite competition this summer in London. BETTER in '12-13

PG: Rubio will improve and considering that Ridnour and Barea will have crunch time support from Roy and Shved, both of whom can be floor generals if need be and PG too is BETTER in '12-13

I'll take the 2011-12 team until Rubio's back to top form (which might not be until 2013-2014)

AK47/Roy > Beasley/Johnson
Budinger > Webster
Cunningham = Ellington
Steamer > Randolph (for our team fit)
Lou = Tolliver
+ Shved


Obviously staying healthy is key but talent/depth wise, we're easily a better team this season.

lobishome wrote:

Worm Guts wrote:

And Darko (first half season), Webster, Ellington, Tolliver and Beasley are better players than the 2012 new guys.

Que?

Hombre,

Darko did good games in the first half of the season. In fact, I think he was the best player in the Clippers game (love buzzer beater). I don't think Stiemsma or Amundson can do this kind of games.

Tolliver and Randolph played well the first games of the season.

I think Ellington was a valid player.

and Beasley is better than Budinger.

Outside of the first three weeks and that one Clippers game, Darko was terrible. Taking out that one outlier game in LA, these are his averages after January 6 = 2.9 ppg, 2.5 rpg, .382 fg. Steimsma can give us that production.

Tolliver and Randolph were end-of-the-bench players. Very replaceable, just like Cunningham and Amundson.

Ellington is another end-of-bench player and Shved should be at least as good, if not better.

Budinger does not replace Beasley. Kirilenko does. Beasley is a better scorer than AK47 but a much worse defender and team player. Maybe a wash but I'd much rather have Kirilenko.

Brandon Roy in a wheel chair is better than Wes Johnson and Budinger is about equal to Webster (maybe better). Williams should be better at SF this year as well after working with Bayno.

Overall, improved at SG and SF, about the same at PG, PF, and C. Better defense as a whole, too and much better fits for Adelman's system.

Little Digger wrote:I'll take the 2011-12 team until Rubio's back to top form (which might not be until 2013-2014)

I think this is a legitimate concern. One of our best players won't be as good for most of the year, but I think we are significantly improved everywhere else. I'm not sure how it will balance out.

Worm Guts wrote:

Little Digger wrote:I'll take the 2011-12 team until Rubio's back to top form (which might not be until 2013-2014)

I think this is a legitimate concern. One of our best players won't be as good for most of the year, but I think we are significantly improved everywhere else. I'm not sure how it will balance out.

That's where someone like Brandon Roy steps in. Roy will likely be his healthiest while Rubio is hurt, and should give us good production.

That's a good point Klomp. I also think the roster improvement offsets Rubio's health somewhat. The additions of Roy and Shved (and to a lesser extent Budinger) allow Ridnour to finally play his correct position here and not SG. Barea should also be healthy, unlike last season, and should benefit from an actual training camp and new teammates. Ridnour and Barea are certainly not as good as Rubio but both should be more effective this season, at least until RR comes back 100%.

C.lupus wrote:That's a good point Klomp. I also think the roster improvement offsets Rubio's health somewhat. The additions of Roy and Shved (and to a lesser extent Budinger) allow Ridnour to finally play his correct position here and not SG. Barea should also be healthy, unlike last season, and should benefit from an actual training camp and new teammates. Ridnour and Barea are certainly not as good as Rubio but both should be more effective this season, at least until RR comes back 100%.

Ridnour and Roy will be a great pairing. Give Brandon the ball, let Luke spot up for 3.

Stats for players that were let go:

Martell Webster - 10 PER, .064 WS/48, 93 total games in his 2 years here.

Wes Johnson - 8 PER(down from 10.2 his rookie year), .021WS/48(again, down from .030 rookie year), major bust...could've had Paul George, Gordon Hayward, Cousins, Monroe.

Michael Beasley - 13 PER(15.5 last year), .022 WS/48(down from .035). Had good volume numbers his 1st year, very inconsistent as you can see he was barely better then Wes.

Darko Milicic - 9.0 PER(12.2 year before), .003 WS/48(.007 before). Uninspired unless offense ran through him, defense was solid when he cared...but was horrid rebounder and finisher.

Wayne Ellington - 9.4 PER(8.6 before), .041 WS/48(best of career by far). Didn't play much, was hot/cold if he did.


Stats for the players brought in:

Andrei Kirilenko - 16.6 PER (2nd lowest of career, 19.1 for his career), .109 WS/48(2nd lowest, career mark is .156). Great defender and glue guy, should have a good year after tearing it up in olympic play and resting his body.

Brandon Roy - 13.9 PER(injuries killed his last year, 20.1 for career), .077WS/48(career mark is .157). If the knees hold up could be a big surprise, if not he's still an upgrade as a good veteran that can pass/handle, while being a clutch player.

Chase Budinger - 14.9 PER, .111 WS/48--both career bests. great shooter and athlete, can handle some and according to rockets fans really improved his defense to be average the past season. great spark off the bench or a solid starter.

Dante Cunningham - 14.9 PER, .147WS/48 --both career highs. one of my favorite players, solid rebounder, good defender, always hustles and gives his all. great bench big who is on a team friendly contract and got rid of Wayne.

Greg Stiemsma - 13.6 PER, .170WS/48. Great shotblocker, I have concerns if he was helped out a lot by KG and the boston D...but a small commitment to him at only 5.2m for 2 years.

Lou Amundson - 11.5 PER, .062 WS/48. Hustle hustle hustle. Good athlete, pesky defender, great as a 5th big.

This is without even factoring in Shved, who should be a nice combo guard( I think he's more of a 2) that can pass/handle and shoot and is still young with a good amount of potential.

Darko and tolliver have more tools than stiemsma and lou so they can put up bigger games, but the new guys know their roles and it will pay off in consistency. Randolph n beas were to raw and bad system fits. The big gains were the wings brought in. Last year we had nothing aside from a few heroic ridnour games

Darko and tolliver have more tools than stiemsma and lou so they can put up bigger games, but the new guys know their roles and it will pay off in consistency. Randolph n beas were to raw and bad system fits. The big gains were the wings brought in. Last year we had nothing aside from a few heroic ridnour games

moss_is_1 wrote:Stats for players that were let go:

Martell Webster - 10 PER, .064 WS/48, 93 total games in his 2 years here.

Wes Johnson - 8 PER(down from 10.2 his rookie year), .021WS/48(again, down from .030 rookie year), major bust...could've had Paul George, Gordon Hayward, Cousins, Monroe.

Michael Beasley - 13 PER(15.5 last year), .022 WS/48(down from .035). Had good volume numbers his 1st year, very inconsistent as you can see he was barely better then Wes.

Darko Milicic - 9.0 PER(12.2 year before), .003 WS/48(.007 before). Uninspired unless offense ran through him, defense was solid when he cared...but was horrid rebounder and finisher.

Wayne Ellington - 9.4 PER(8.6 before), .041 WS/48(best of career by far). Didn't play much, was hot/cold if he did.


Stats for the players brought in:

Andrei Kirilenko - 16.6 PER (2nd lowest of career, 19.1 for his career), .109 WS/48(2nd lowest, career mark is .156). Great defender and glue guy, should have a good year after tearing it up in olympic play and resting his body.

Brandon Roy - 13.9 PER(injuries killed his last year, 20.1 for career), .077WS/48(career mark is .157). If the knees hold up could be a big surprise, if not he's still an upgrade as a good veteran that can pass/handle, while being a clutch player.

Chase Budinger - 14.9 PER, .111 WS/48--both career bests. great shooter and athlete, can handle some and according to rockets fans really improved his defense to be average the past season. great spark off the bench or a solid starter.

Dante Cunningham - 14.9 PER, .147WS/48 --both career highs. one of my favorite players, solid rebounder, good defender, always hustles and gives his all. great bench big who is on a team friendly contract and got rid of Wayne.

Greg Stiemsma - 13.6 PER, .170WS/48. Great shotblocker, I have concerns if he was helped out a lot by KG and the boston D...but a small commitment to him at only 5.2m for 2 years.

Lou Amundson - 11.5 PER, .062 WS/48. Hustle hustle hustle. Good athlete, pesky defender, great as a 5th big.

This is without even factoring in Shved, who should be a nice combo guard( I think he's more of a 2) that can pass/handle and shoot and is still young with a good amount of potential.

This pretty much lays it out. Plus the better vet presence from guys who have done it at a very high level. And also the factor of just having a training camp to acclimate all the pieces, unlike last year.

The Wolves brought in a bunch of players who have contributed to winning teams. They're probably going to be much better this year.

Yes.

Are you an idiot?