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I really want them to be on this team long term, I love what both players bring to the game.

Budinger will be an unrestricted free agent.
We have a 2.18 million team option on Cunningam.

To re-sign Budinger and Pek and stay under the luxury tax we will likely have to dump the salary of one of barea/ridnour/roy/williams.

younggunsmn wrote:Budinger will be an unrestricted free agent.
We have a 2.18 million team option on Cunningam.

To re-sign Budinger and Pek and stay under the luxury tax we will likely have to dump the salary of one of barea/ridnour/roy/williams.

That might be tough, especially if Bud keeps playing the way he has, I can see him making around 6-7 mil and Pek getting around 11-12.

I would re-sign Bud first and let the market decide Pek's fate and match (since that's what is going to happen anyway.)

Also, we might not even pick up Roy's second year if he doesn't improve.

They haven't said what the terms of Roy's 2nd year are. Just that they gave themselves "protection" if he's not healthy enough.

And I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 2 of that Ridnour/Barea/Williams/Roy group not on the team next season.

From what I've read we're just protected against injury with Roy. Not performance. Either way I don't expect us to be able to weasel out of his 5+ million next summer.

If I were I betting man I'd say we eventually use Williams to move Barea for pretty much nothing and re-sign Budinger and Pek. Although it would be really nice if we could just dump barea or ridnour for an expiring.

Esohny wrote:They haven't said what the terms of Roy's 2nd year are. Just that they gave themselves "protection" if he's not healthy enough.

And I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 2 of that Ridnour/Barea/Williams/Roy group not on the team next season.

From Shamsports:

The second year can become unguaranteed if Roy reinjures a his knee(s).

BUT, even if he does injure a knee, the contract stays guaranteed if either:
1) He is on the active list for 65 or more games this season, OR
2)He plays 1400 minutes or more this season.

These terms are worse for us than I imagined. We have protection if he breaks down physically so much that he can barely play at all. But if he just plain sucks because of his diminished capability we are basically screwed.

LordBaldric wrote:

Esohny wrote:They haven't said what the terms of Roy's 2nd year are. Just that they gave themselves "protection" if he's not healthy enough.

And I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 2 of that Ridnour/Barea/Williams/Roy group not on the team next season.

From Shamsports:

The second year can become unguaranteed if Roy reinjures a his knee(s).

BUT, even if he does injure a knee, the contract stays guaranteed if either:
1) He is on the active list for 65 or more games this season, OR
2)He plays 1400 minutes or more this season.

These terms are worse for us than I imagined. We have protection is he breaks down physically so much that he can barely play at all. But if he just plain sucks because of his diminished capability we are basically screwed.

Thanks for this. I've read in the past that incentive-based guarantees are illegal, so I don't know how they would be able to manage this.

Maybe because they aren't really based on his stats but rather his ability to suit up?

LordBaldric wrote:Maybe because they aren't really based on his stats but rather his ability to suit up?

Minutes and games active are still incentives. I can't see how the players association would be OK with being able to just put a guy in a suit if you don't want to pay him.

Roy's contract reminds me of Darko. Nobody beside Kahn was willing to throw so much money at him. Kahn thought he's going to win big with Roy and it backfired.

It's still early for Roy. He banged knees with someone, hopefully it's not the cartiliage issue again.
That said I'm not impressed with what I've seen thus far. I'd rather have budinger. And if Roy's deal keeps us from resigning Budinger I'll be disappointed.

I don't know why we're already writing Roy off. His shot isn't falling and besides the Toronto game he hasn't looked like crap. It's only been 5 games and he had a 9 assist game.

I still clinch my butt cheeks whenever he takes a 3 since he hasn't made one all year, yet.

younggunsmn wrote:It's still early for Roy. He banged knees with someone, hopefully it's not the cartiliage issue again.
That said I'm not impressed with what I've seen thus far. I'd rather have budinger. And if Roy's deal keeps us from resigning Budinger I'll be disappointed.

Roy is too unreliable and not good enougn to warrant the deal he signed. I don't understand why they couldn't make the second year unguaranteed period.

theGreatRC wrote:I don't know why we're already writing Roy off. His shot isn't falling and besides the Toronto game he hasn't looked like crap. It's only been 5 games and he had a 9 assist game.

I still clinch my butt cheeks whenever he takes a 3 since he hasn't made one all year, yet.

Roy is done and you have to admit it. He's like Penny Hardaway after his injuries and no amount of games will shake off the rust plus his knees are even worse and may give up on him any moment.
You sporting this Roy avatar makes you look in denial.

LordBaldric wrote:

Esohny wrote:They haven't said what the terms of Roy's 2nd year are. Just that they gave themselves "protection" if he's not healthy enough.

And I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 2 of that Ridnour/Barea/Williams/Roy group not on the team next season.

From Shamsports:

The second year can become unguaranteed if Roy reinjures a his knee(s).

BUT, even if he does injure a knee, the contract stays guaranteed if either:
1) He is on the active list for 65 or more games this season, OR
2)He plays 1400 minutes or more this season.

These terms are worse for us than I imagined. We have protection if he breaks down physically so much that he can barely play at all. But if he just plain sucks because of his diminished capability we are basically screwed.

1400 minutes at his current mpg (24.4) would be game 57.

Turnover_21 wrote:

theGreatRC wrote:I don't know why we're already writing Roy off. His shot isn't falling and besides the Toronto game he hasn't looked like crap. It's only been 5 games and he had a 9 assist game.

I still clinch my butt cheeks whenever he takes a 3 since he hasn't made one all year, yet.

Roy is done and you have to admit it. He's like Penny Hardaway after his injuries and now amount of games will shake off the rust plus his knees are even worse and may give up on him any moment.
You sporting this Roy avatar makes you look in denial.

Is Grant Hill done? Just because hes not averaging 20 ppg doesn't mean he's trash.

younggunsmn wrote:It's still early for Roy. He banged knees with someone, hopefully it's not the cartiliage issue again.
That said I'm not impressed with what I've seen thus far. I'd rather have budinger. And if Roy's deal keeps us from resigning Budinger I'll be disappointed.

Obviously, it all depends on what Taylor will pay for. If he allows the team to go up close to the lux threshold but not over, then there shouldn't be that much of a problem.

Klomp wrote:

Turnover_21 wrote:

theGreatRC wrote:I don't know why we're already writing Roy off. His shot isn't falling and besides the Toronto game he hasn't looked like crap. It's only been 5 games and he had a 9 assist game.

I still clinch my butt cheeks whenever he takes a 3 since he hasn't made one all year, yet.

Roy is done and you have to admit it. He's like Penny Hardaway after his injuries and now amount of games will shake off the rust plus his knees are even worse and may give up on him any moment.
You sporting this Roy avatar makes you look in denial.

Is Grant Hill done? Just because hes not averaging 20 ppg doesn't mean he's trash.

I know that you like that comparison a lot, but you can't really throw out a case of one guy who had a history of injuries and reinvented himself as a savvy 3 and D vet and act like Roy's career is destined for the same kind of arc. Why don't you just say "it's too early to say how Roy will play over his contract" and leave it at that, because it is?

Klomp wrote:

Turnover_21 wrote:

theGreatRC wrote:I don't know why we're already writing Roy off. His shot isn't falling and besides the Toronto game he hasn't looked like crap. It's only been 5 games and he had a 9 assist game.

I still clinch my butt cheeks whenever he takes a 3 since he hasn't made one all year, yet.

Roy is done and you have to admit it. He's like Penny Hardaway after his injuries and now amount of games will shake off the rust plus his knees are even worse and may give up on him any moment.
You sporting this Roy avatar makes you look in denial.

Is Grant Hill done? Just because hes not averaging 20 ppg doesn't mean he's trash.

1) Hill had ankle issues, not knees.
2) Hill is an exception, for every Hill there's 10 Hardaways.

Esohny wrote:

younggunsmn wrote:It's still early for Roy. He banged knees with someone, hopefully it's not the cartiliage issue again.
That said I'm not impressed with what I've seen thus far. I'd rather have budinger. And if Roy's deal keeps us from resigning Budinger I'll be disappointed.

Obviously, it all depends on what Taylor will pay for. If he allows the team to go up close to the lux threshold but not over, then there shouldn't be that much of a problem.

Budinger >> Roy. If it comes down one or the other its not even close.