The Andrew Wiggins Thread

[Zeitgeister]

Zeitgeister

1) Your numbers are per 36 minutes in the playoff. But that's okay, still look ugly. He failed in the playoff, plain and simple.
2) Wiggins is not a pure SF, not yet. Yes, his attitude needs to improve, but his ability to score is something special and he has diversified his game a lot since his rookie year. And he is better at utilizing his immense physical tools now.
3) Porter can play PF, but this is the same story with Wiggins at SF. They both lack the strength to play against physical players.

@ #1. Otto Porter played 32.9 mpg in this year's playoffs, as if per 36 makes any significant difference. There's nothing remotely "ugly" about those stats, you're either trolling or need to educate yourself on statistics.

[mplsfonz23]

Damm Z....You get your teeth into something you lock on.

Give the Porter thing a rest and find a new comparison. This horse has been beat to death.

[urinesane]

People know Otto Porter Jr is 2 years older right?

2 years physically at this age range can make a world of difference.

Rubio at 22 years old


Rubio at 24 years old


Rubio at 26 years old


Rubio isn't exactly a physical freak, but it's clear that from 22-26 he's developed much more physically.

My point is that it doesn't make sense to compare Wiggins to a player two years older when adult males develop quite a bit from 19-25 years old. In those age ranges two years make a big difference, and so does playing on a playoff contending team and having an extra season of experience under your belt.

Though context isn't necessarily a factor for many fans.

Wiggins at 19 years old


Wiggins at 21 years old

Spoiler:

Wiggins will be more physically developed (and experienced) at 24 years old, and therefor more able to handle the physicality of playing against grown ass men at the highest level in the world.

Nothing against Otto Porter Jr, I just think it's disingenuous to compare the two straight up currently.

[GopherIt!]

this board is becoming unreadable.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I really like Andrew Wiggins and the hate for him on the General Board is insane. People are trying to argue that Otto Porter is better than him and are trying to say Wiggins is the worst defensive player of the decade.

Its insane.

I'm hoping he plays well next year and will definitely be watching some Wolves games.

[shrink]

It will be cool to start a new Wiggins thread when he signs his extension.

[urinesane]

this board is becoming unreadable.

Becoming?

[LibertyPrime]

I really like Andrew Wiggins and the hate for him on the General Board is insane. People are trying to argue that Otto Porter is better than him and are trying to say Wiggins is the worst defensive player of the decade.

Its insane.

I'm hoping he plays well next year and will definitely be watching some Wolves games.

It is just wild. Otto Porter has one good year and suddenly he's better than Wiggins (in the minds of a lot of people who wanted their team to draft Wiggins at the time). Bet you every GM in the league would take Wiggins over Porter, including the team that just paid him the max.

Not enough happening lately; I think everyone's going stir-crazy.

[Reddy83]

I'm a big Wiggy fan, haters can kick rocks. His game is phenommy and we should be ecstatic to lock him up five more years.

Getting him that Jimmy Bux tutelage is even bigger. This season will be amazing!

[Mattya]

People know Otto Porter Jr is 2 years older right?

2 years physically at this age range can make a world of difference.

Rubio at 22 years old


Rubio at 24 years old


Rubio at 26 years old


Rubio isn't exactly a physical freak, but it's clear that from 22-26 he's developed much more physically.

My point is that it doesn't make sense to compare Wiggins to a player two years older when adult males develop quite a bit from 19-25 years old. In those age ranges two years make a big difference, and so does playing on a playoff contending team and having an extra season of experience under your belt.

Though context isn't necessarily a factor for many fans.

Wiggins at 19 years old


Wiggins at 21 years old

Spoiler:

Wiggins will be more physically developed (and experienced) at 24 years old, and therefor more able to handle the physicality of playing against grown ass men at the highest level in the world.

Nothing against Otto Porter Jr, I just think it's disingenuous to compare the two straight up currently.

I think a lot of posters overestimate their ability to analyze stats in general. These stats that the public gets are the most popular, but I would bet that every NBA team has their own stats team with variations they use more. The general board has always been the gathering point for the worst of the worst.

I find it funny how posters only understand context with these stats when you bring up players they are fans of.

[Neeva]

this board is becoming unreadable.

[Neeva]

this board is becoming unreadable.

You can't handle opinions that are different than yours?

[thinktank]

Andrew Wiggins' usage was 29%.

Porters' was 15.1%.

Geez, I wonder why that is.

[King Malta]

People know Otto Porter Jr is 2 years older right?

2 years physically at this age range can make a world of difference.

Rubio at 22 years old


Rubio at 24 years old


Rubio at 26 years old


Rubio isn't exactly a physical freak, but it's clear that from 22-26 he's developed much more physically.

My point is that it doesn't make sense to compare Wiggins to a player two years older when adult males develop quite a bit from 19-25 years old. In those age ranges two years make a big difference, and so does playing on a playoff contending team and having an extra season of experience under your belt.

Though context isn't necessarily a factor for many fans.

Wiggins at 19 years old


Wiggins at 21 years old

Spoiler:

Wiggins will be more physically developed (and experienced) at 24 years old, and therefor more able to handle the physicality of playing against grown ass men at the highest level in the world.

Nothing against Otto Porter Jr, I just think it's disingenuous to compare the two straight up currently.

I think a lot of posters overestimate their ability to analyze stats in general. These stats that the public gets are the most popular, but I would bet that every NBA team has their own stats team with variations they use more. The general board has always been the gathering point for the worst of the worst.

I find it funny how posters only understand context with these stats when you bring up players they are fans of.

I find that the vast majority of people who make themselves out to be experts and utilize stats so heavily watch very little ball outside of their own team and solely rely on statistics when it comes to player evaluations on other teams.

Sure, stats make up a large part of evaluating a player's effectiveness, but I still believe that you can garner much more about a player from closely watching their game in conjunction with viewing certain statistics that simply reeling off figures from stat sites and acting like they're the be all and end all.

[King Malta]

When you've got a guy with Wiggins' ceiling, age and talent coming up for extension you max him, I think every other team would do the same.

Is there a concern he might not hit his ceiling? Sure, but that concern should exist with any young player to varying degrees. I have faith that with less pressure on him to carry so much offensive weight he'll be able to focus on improving the other areas of his game.

[Zeitgeister]

People know Otto Porter Jr is 2 years older right?

2 years physically at this age range can make a world of difference.

Rubio at 22 years old


Rubio at 24 years old


Rubio at 26 years old


Rubio isn't exactly a physical freak, but it's clear that from 22-26 he's developed much more physically.

My point is that it doesn't make sense to compare Wiggins to a player two years older when adult males develop quite a bit from 19-25 years old. In those age ranges two years make a big difference, and so does playing on a playoff contending team and having an extra season of experience under your belt.

Though context isn't necessarily a factor for many fans.

Wiggins at 19 years old


Wiggins at 21 years old

Spoiler:

Wiggins will be more physically developed (and experienced) at 24 years old, and therefor more able to handle the physicality of playing against grown ass men at the highest level in the world.

Nothing against Otto Porter Jr, I just think it's disingenuous to compare the two straight up currently.

The entire point was that Porter has done more with his athletic tools than Wiggins, hell even when he was younger than Wiggins in 2017. I didn't even bring up Porter in this thread, it was a few others here who thought it was laughable to compare the two.

Otto Porter was a damned good rebounder the moment he stepped into the league, when he was younger than Wiggins in 2017. He has a career 10.0 TRB%, Wiggins has a career 6.5 TRB% for reference and they have very much a similar body size while Wiggins is more athletic. Porter has also always been better at steals and blocks.

You guys can't have it both ways, you can't say Wiggins has gained weight between 19 and 21 while also saying he's still only 200 lbs going up against "GROWN MEN". I know you haven't said that specifically in this thread, but I see this all the time, "Wiggins is 200 lbs, he's completely outmatched at SF".

As to the others:

People who complain about citing statistics usually don't have an argument to stand on. Statistics are a form of evidence and it's completely foolish to pretend that people who cite them don't watch games. I watch the majority of Timberwolves games every year, I see the way Wiggins plays and I even will focus exclusively on what Wiggins does for long stretches to see what he does off the ball.

Wiggins usage will go down this year, his play style is going to have to change he's going to be on a competitive team finally so he won't have a green light to take all the bad shots he wants while taking plays off on the defensive end. Maybe he can do it really well, but no one knows and he's going to have to be something different starting this season.

[Klomp]

You guys can't have it both ways, you can't say Wiggins has gained weight between 19 and 21 while also saying he's still only 200 lbs going up against "GROWN MEN". I know you haven't said that specifically in this thread, but I see this all the time, "Wiggins is 200 lbs, he's completely outmatched at SF".

Ummmm, yes you can have it both ways.

Gaining strength doesn't mean gaining weight. Wiggins has gotten stronger, but he's still only 200 lbs. Playing at SF, that means going against guys as much as 50-60 lbs heavier than him.

He was a pencil when he came into the league. You can't expect 2 years to be enough time to start out-muscling guys like LeBron and Kawhi on a regular basis when he started where he did. That's like saying KG should've been outmuscling Shaq in the post by his third year.

[Zeitgeister]

You guys can't have it both ways, you can't say Wiggins has gained weight between 19 and 21 while also saying he's still only 200 lbs going up against "GROWN MEN". I know you haven't said that specifically in this thread, but I see this all the time, "Wiggins is 200 lbs, he's completely outmatched at SF".

Ummmm, yes you can have it both ways.

Gaining strength doesn't mean gaining weight. Wiggins has gotten stronger, but he's still only 200 lbs. Playing at SF, that means going against guys as much as 50-60 lbs heavier than him.

He was a pencil when he came into the league. You can't expect 2 years to be enough time to start out-muscling guys like LeBron and Kawhi on a regular basis when he started where he did. That's like saying KG should've been outmuscling Shaq in the post by his third year.

It's been 3 years.

Not really, no. 3 years of working with a professional trainer and dietician and he hasn't gained a single pound? Does he have Shawn Bradley's metabolism or something? So he was using a picture as evidence that he's gotten bigger yet you're telling me he hasn't gained any weight.

Somehow Otto Porter was able to "outmuscle LeBron" and grab a reasonable amount of rebounds per game, as if Wiggins is going up against LeBron every night. LMAO

[minimus]

Otto Porter was 3rd pick in 2013 draft, he was close to bust definition a year ago. He basically has had one good year 2016-2017 when he averaged 13.4 ppg, 51% FG, 43% 3P, 6.4 rpg, 1.5 spg, 1.5 apg. USG 15.1%

He shot extremely well, but for 3&D player with low usage he doesn't excel in other areas. He has not done more with his physical tools than Wiggins. We still speak about 13.4 ppg 6.4 rpg guy in the East. Does he impact the game as Dray Green does? Not really.

[Zeitgeister]

Porter was an effective role player in 2016 as well, so not just one good year. Wiggins has been a below average, high usage scorer the past three seasons. Neither of those guys are effective at leading your team as a #1 or #2 option as of today. It's possible Wiggins grows into that, but not at all a certainty, it's very much in doubt. If it remains the case that he cannot be an effective #1 or #2 option, then he's going to have to learn to do what Otto Porter does. There's no evidence to suggest that he can do it thus far. He hasn't shown the ability to be a good rebounder, defender, passer, he MIGHT be an average three point shooter but we'll have to wait and confirm that with another season's work.

People love to undervalue roleplayers but that's a mistake. They are highly valuable and you cannot win it all without them. Andre Iguodala won the finals MVP a few years ago. Draymond Green is sort of like a super roleplayer and he's probably the second most important player on the Warriors and arguably a top 10 player in the NBA.

Otto Porter is of course not Draymond Green but let's not pretend that you need to be Draymond Green to be better than Wiggins, that would be preposterous.