The Kris Dunn thread

[Killboard]

Anyone else starting to worry about Kris Dunn??

7.84 PER is ABYSMAL for a point guard.

His shooting numbers make Rubio look like Steph Curry. .368% FG, .286% 3PT, .604 FT%. (.429 TS%). For reference, Rubio has a .524 TS%, Curry a .624 TS%.

He also RARELY gets to the free throw line - about 2.5 per 40 mins.

His AST to TO ratio is only 1.8.

He's almost 23 years old.

i'm worried enough that i'm reluctant to trade jones. not trying to derail, but i want to see more of an active role from jones. even factoring dunn's defensive contributions, jones has been miles ahead offensively largely in part do to dunn's shooting woes and dunn's occasional inability to run an offense.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Tyus+Jones&player_id1_select=Tyus+Jones&y1=2017&player_id1=jonesty01&hint=Kris+Dunn&player_id4_select=Kris+Dunn&y4=2017&player_id4=dunnkr01

in dunn's defense, dunn's numbers are similar to tyus jones rookie stats, but still he is more than 2 years older.

He remembers me more of Tony Allen than (throwback) Rondo. I think that means he is a SG at this point. Obviously he will get better, but I dont think he will ever be better distributor than Ricky. Regarding his shot, maybe he could make the defenses honest more than Ricky, but I dont think his range is going to be a threat neither.

[theGreatRC]

I feel like he'll play much better as a starter, but right now it's such a big risk because he's so inconsistent. Had a great game against Denver and then goes 1-6 with 5 TOs

Tyus is actually consistent when given minutes, the thing is his defense due to his size. He's a situational guard, but he can be a backup once he hits the weights more. He's only 20 after all.

We'll see what happens, but Dunn ain't ready for prime time

[Merc_Porto]

Elite defense guarantees at least 10 years in the league.
Right now he looks more like Tony Allen kind of player, which is great. A elite defender to play off guard.

Just need to put a guy like Tyus next to him as PG.
A facilitaior that can shoot.

[Krapinsky]

Dunn was not selected to participate in the rookie-sophomore game.

Here are the rookies that were elected:

Brogdon
Chriss
Ingram
Embiid
Hield
Murray
Sabonis
Saric

[Krapinsky]

Elite defense guarantees at least 10 years in the league.
Right now he looks more like Tony Allen kind of player, which is great. A elite defender to play off guard.

Just need to put a guy like Tyus next to him as PG.
A facilitaior that can shoot.

FWIW - Tony Allen has always been a serviceable offensive player. His rookie year playing 16.4 minutes per game he had a .542 TS% and a 14.8 PER. He also got to the FT line at twice the rate.

At this point Dunn looks like a poor man's Tony Allen at best.

[Killboard]

Elite defense guarantees at least 10 years in the league.
Right now he looks more like Tony Allen kind of player, which is great. A elite defender to play off guard.

Just need to put a guy like Tyus next to him as PG.
A facilitaior that can shoot.

FWIW - Tony Allen has always been a serviceable offensive player. His rookie year playing 16.4 minutes per game he had a .542 TS% and a 14.8 PER. He also got to the FT line at twice the rate.

At this point Dunn looks like a poor man's Tony Allen at best.

I think his numbers on offense could be better playing off the ball with Tyus or even Rubio, despite the spacing problems it would mean. He looks like a good screener and cutter.

[AirP.]

I feel like he'll play much better as a starter, but right now it's such a big risk because he's so inconsistent. Had a great game against Denver and then goes 1-6 with 5 TOs

Tyus is actually consistent when given minutes, the thing is his defense due to his size. He's a situational guard, but he can be a backup once he hits the weights more. He's only 20 after all.

We'll see what happens, but Dunn ain't ready for prime time

It's a tough situation. It's quite possible that Tyus is the better player currently but if he gets the backup minutes Dunn may never get time to develop and he's already 2 years older then Tyus. Also, it's hard to be consistent offensively when you're not shooting the ball much, although Tyus has been better which may be accounted to him being in his 2nd year vs rookie season(Tyus' shooting numbers are better by far this year then his rookie season).


I do wonder if Rubio is being shopped because of his lacking to look for his own shot as a PG may be rubbing off on the younger PGs? Looking at Rubio, Dunn and Tyus, all 3 of them are shooting 8.8 or less FGA per36, which is odd since in Chicago Thib's looked for scoring from the PG, some of those names were... Rose, DJ Augustine, N.Robinson and even John Lucus III.

[Maefteda]

I've seen enough good games/moments from Dunn to have a lot of confidence that he's gonna be a good starting PG in the future.

I think a pretty good comparison is the guy he struggled with last night, Eric Bledsoe. Knowing when to pass and when to shoot and adjust to the NBA as a PG is damn tough, so it's gonna take some time, but in spurts, like against Denver, KD has shown he can be a game changer.

[Killboard]

It's a tough situation. It's quite possible that Tyus is the better player currently but if he gets the backup minutes Dunn may never get time to develop and he's already 2 years older then Tyus. Also, it's hard to be consistent offensively when you're not shooting the ball much, although Tyus has been better which may be accounted to him being in his 2nd year vs rookie season(Tyus' shooting numbers are better by far this year then his rookie season).

The middle ground should be lower the minutes Lavine is getting and play Dunn off the ball.

I do wonder if Rubio is being shopped because of his lacking to look for his own shot as a PG may be rubbing off on the younger PGs? Looking at Rubio, Dunn and Tyus, all 3 of them are shooting 8.8 or less FGA per36, which is odd since in Chicago Thib's looked for scoring from the PG, some of those names were... Rose, DJ Augustine, N.Robinson and even John Lucus III.

I think it has to do with one of Lavine, Wiggins, Towns or Bazz at all times in the court. Those guys must get shots to be efficient NBA players. Not too much for the rest.

[AirP.]

It's a tough situation. It's quite possible that Tyus is the better player currently but if he gets the backup minutes Dunn may never get time to develop and he's already 2 years older then Tyus. Also, it's hard to be consistent offensively when you're not shooting the ball much, although Tyus has been better which may be accounted to him being in his 2nd year vs rookie season(Tyus' shooting numbers are better by far this year then his rookie season).

The middle ground should be lower the minutes Lavine is getting and play Dunn off the ball.

I think he's evaluating his younger more advanced players. The Wolves will have a ton of capspace this summer to not just sign free agents, but take on salary by trading for proven vets for low cost rookie contracts. The Wolves may even get Pek medically retired and have his money available too this summer. He needs to see his young talent on the court as much as possible to see who should or shouldn't stay. Dunn being a rookie... you're not going to see what he really is this season so having him on the court(unless he just exploded).

I do wonder if Rubio is being shopped because of his lacking to look for his own shot as a PG may be rubbing off on the younger PGs? Looking at Rubio, Dunn and Tyus, all 3 of them are shooting 8.8 or less FGA per36, which is odd since in Chicago Thib's looked for scoring from the PG, some of those names were... Rose, DJ Augustine, N.Robinson and even John Lucus III.

I think it has to do with one of Lavine, Wiggins, Towns or Bazz at all times in the court. Those guys must get shots to be efficient NBA players. Not too much for the rest.

You say that.... but the PG touches the ball the most, they just aren't looking to score.

Looking at Touches on stats.nba.com

http://stats.nba.com/players/touches/#!?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612750&sort=TOUCHES&dir=1

You'll see Rubio at the top with 78.1
Dunn is 6th at 37.9 yet people who get less touches shoot way more then he does...

3 of the lowest 4 points per touch for Minnesota(that play somewhat decent minutes) are the PGs... Rubio, Dunn, Tyus and JL(he doesn't really play much). I'm not too sure of many teams where all their PGs are that low.

[Sugarless]

I'm just happy the post draft / post SL nonsense has finally come to an end.

Dunn was a college senior, there was plenty of time to watch him and he was a guy with very clearly defined strengths and weaknesses (the same ones you could see in SL if you paid attention, by the way). It is also well known to any basketball fan worth his salt that the PG position is the most difficult to master in this game -especially in the NBA with such strong opponents-, and that young PGs take time to develop, they seldom come into the game and make a big impact running the team from day 1 (over the last 15 years you have what, CP3, Ricky, and Deron Williams in spurts, before he turned it up as a sophomore?). And it's not like he was an excellent scorer in college to think he was going to do much in that area either, the way guys like Rose or Lillard did being rookies.

Coming into the season I was hoping he'd play some more SG so he could share the court with Ricky, learn how to expand his game off the ball with a top distributor by his side, while slowly getting a better grasp on how to run an NBA team. Unfortunately despite Thibs hinting that would be a real possibility during the year, we have seen absolutely nothing of that, and to make matters worse he's taken the ball off the PGs hands for the most part and handled it to Wiggins with the starters and Zach with the bench unit.

I still think he'll get better in terms of distributing the ball, he's got a good head on his shoulders so NBA experience will help with that (the same way it will polish his defense, which is excellent for a rookie but still raw). He won't be a Rubio / Kidd / Nash type of guy in the way they see the floor -it's unfair and rather silly to expect that- but few PGs are. Offensively he will have to find a good balance learning how to run the team properly, avoid turning the ball over too often and keeping pressure on the defense by attacking the rim when possible. If he adds a respectable J, then you have a solid starter. At the very least he should be a good backup due to his defense. The main thing for him to make that leap other than time and experience will be his handle. He really, really needs to work on it cause he's about to turn 23 and he's still way too unorthodox and careless dribbling the ball, and that's an area that affects too many aspects of the game for a PG to be lacking on it. Hopefully he works on that during the year so we can see a much more well-rounded Dunn next season.

[Sugarless]

It's a tough situation. It's quite possible that Tyus is the better player currently but if he gets the backup minutes Dunn may never get time to develop and he's already 2 years older then Tyus. Also, it's hard to be consistent offensively when you're not shooting the ball much, although Tyus has been better which may be accounted to him being in his 2nd year vs rookie season(Tyus' shooting numbers are better by far this year then his rookie season).

The middle ground should be lower the minutes Lavine is getting and play Dunn off the ball.

I think he's evaluating his younger more advanced players. The Wolves will have a ton of capspace this summer to not just sign free agents, but take on salary by trading for proven vets for low cost rookie contracts. The Wolves may even get Pek medically retired and have his money available too this summer. He needs to see his young talent on the court as much as possible to see who should or shouldn't stay. Dunn being a rookie... you're not going to see what he really is this season so having him on the court(unless he just exploded).

I do wonder if Rubio is being shopped because of his lacking to look for his own shot as a PG may be rubbing off on the younger PGs? Looking at Rubio, Dunn and Tyus, all 3 of them are shooting 8.8 or less FGA per36, which is odd since in Chicago Thib's looked for scoring from the PG, some of those names were... Rose, DJ Augustine, N.Robinson and even John Lucus III.

I think it has to do with one of Lavine, Wiggins, Towns or Bazz at all times in the court. Those guys must get shots to be efficient NBA players. Not too much for the rest.

You say that.... but the PG touches the ball the most, they just aren't looking to score.

Looking at Touches on stats.nba.com

http://stats.nba.com/players/touches/#!?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612750&sort=TOUCHES&dir=1

You'll see Rubio at the top with 78.1
Dunn is 6th at 37.9 yet people who get less touches shoot way more then he does...

3 of the lowest 4 points per touch for Minnesota(that play somewhat decent minutes) are the PGs... Rubio, Dunn, Tyus and JL(he doesn't really play much). I'm not too sure of many teams where all their PGs are that low.

The amount of touches doesn't mean anything by itself (again, basic stats are worthless in a vacuum). PGs touch the ball at the start of every possession most of the time, but what matters is what happens with the ball after that. Ricky and Dunn will often bring the ball up the court only to give it to Wiggins and LaVine so they can make a play with plenty of time on the clock. They will of course lead the team in touches that way, cause they're getting at least one in most plays, but it doesn't say anything about the quality of those touches.

[Merc_Porto]

Rookies getting big minutes is not something that happend's all the time. Giannis, Gobert, Porter are just a few of a lot of examples of rookies not getting a lot of minutes.

[AirP.]

The amount of touches doesn't mean anything by itself (again, basic stats are worthless in a vacuum). PGs touch the ball at the start of every possession most of the time, but what matters is what happens with the ball after that. Ricky and Dunn will often bring the ball up the court only to give it to Wiggins and LaVine so they can make a play with plenty of time on the clock. They will of course lead the team in touches that way, cause they're getting at least one in most plays, but it doesn't say anything about the quality of those touches.

Well, it kinda does, they can call their number which was done by nearly all the PGs in Chicago under Thibs.

Odd... in this situation the PG(Rubio) looked wide open and the defense was basically giving him the shot... a shot wasn't even considered by Rubio.

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You don't even have to take a shot, that much distance lets you get a running start at going past them or getting a foul called.

Rubio, he needs to be the PG with a team that has finishers and needs someone to set them up, that's not so much needed in Minnesota with Wiggins, LaVine and KAT.

[Sugarless]

The amount of touches doesn't mean anything by itself (again, basic stats are worthless in a vacuum). PGs touch the ball at the start of every possession most of the time, but what matters is what happens with the ball after that. Ricky and Dunn will often bring the ball up the court only to give it to Wiggins and LaVine so they can make a play with plenty of time on the clock. They will of course lead the team in touches that way, cause they're getting at least one in most plays, but it doesn't say anything about the quality of those touches.

Well, it kinda does, they can call their number which was done by nearly all the PGs in Chicago under Thibs.

Odd... in this situation the PG(Rubio) looked wide open and the defense was basically giving him the shot... a shot wasn't even considered by Rubio.

You don't even have to take a shot, that much distance lets you get a running start at going past them or getting a foul called.

Rubio, he needs to be the PG with a team that has finishers and needs someone to set them up, that's not so much needed in Minnesota with Wiggins, LaVine and KAT.

Of course Thibs PGs in Chicago shot the ball. He had a collection of me-first renowned chuckers, what did you expect them to do? Neither Rubio nor Dunn or Tyus are that type of PGs (thank god), and they share the court with 3 guys that score over 20 PPG apiece with usage rates ranging from 22% to 28% and a sixth man whose main virtue is also scoring and is close to a 20% usage rate as well. There are only so many possessions to use and shots to take in a game.

[AirP.]

The amount of touches doesn't mean anything by itself (again, basic stats are worthless in a vacuum). PGs touch the ball at the start of every possession most of the time, but what matters is what happens with the ball after that. Ricky and Dunn will often bring the ball up the court only to give it to Wiggins and LaVine so they can make a play with plenty of time on the clock. They will of course lead the team in touches that way, cause they're getting at least one in most plays, but it doesn't say anything about the quality of those touches.

Well, it kinda does, they can call their number which was done by nearly all the PGs in Chicago under Thibs.

Odd... in this situation the PG(Rubio) looked wide open and the defense was basically giving him the shot... a shot wasn't even considered by Rubio.

You don't even have to take a shot, that much distance lets you get a running start at going past them or getting a foul called.

Rubio, he needs to be the PG with a team that has finishers and needs someone to set them up, that's not so much needed in Minnesota with Wiggins, LaVine and KAT.

Of course Thibs PGs in Chicago shot the ball. He had a collection of me-first renowned chuckers, what did you expect them to do? Neither Rubio nor Dunn or Tyus are that type of PGs (thank god), and they share the court with 3 guys that score over 20 PPG apiece with usage rates ranging from 22% to 28% and a sixth man whose main virtue is also scoring and is close to a 20% usage rate as well. There are only so many possessions to use and shots to take in a game.

Right... a more balanced attack probably wouldn't help. At least when Chicago was playing 4 on 5 the offensive liability(Noah) was a difference maker on the other end of the court.

[Sugarless]

Well, it kinda does, they can call their number which was done by nearly all the PGs in Chicago under Thibs.

Odd... in this situation the PG(Rubio) looked wide open and the defense was basically giving him the shot... a shot wasn't even considered by Rubio.

You don't even have to take a shot, that much distance lets you get a running start at going past them or getting a foul called.

Rubio, he needs to be the PG with a team that has finishers and needs someone to set them up, that's not so much needed in Minnesota with Wiggins, LaVine and KAT.

Of course Thibs PGs in Chicago shot the ball. He had a collection of me-first renowned chuckers, what did you expect them to do? Neither Rubio nor Dunn or Tyus are that type of PGs (thank god), and they share the court with 3 guys that score over 20 PPG apiece with usage rates ranging from 22% to 28% and a sixth man whose main virtue is also scoring and is close to a 20% usage rate as well. There are only so many possessions to use and shots to take in a game.

Right... a more balanced attack probably wouldn't help. At least when Chicago was playing 4 on 5 the offensive liability(Noah) was a difference maker on the other end of the court.

We have had a more balanced attack the past couple of weeks. We've also been winning. Don't blame anyone else if you're not paying attention.

[PuppyBite]

Instead of Rubio trade talks why not consider Dunn? Say they get Noel and draft another PG.

[AirP.]

Of course Thibs PGs in Chicago shot the ball. He had a collection of me-first renowned chuckers, what did you expect them to do? Neither Rubio nor Dunn or Tyus are that type of PGs (thank god), and they share the court with 3 guys that score over 20 PPG apiece with usage rates ranging from 22% to 28% and a sixth man whose main virtue is also scoring and is close to a 20% usage rate as well. There are only so many possessions to use and shots to take in a game.

Right... a more balanced attack probably wouldn't help. At least when Chicago was playing 4 on 5 the offensive liability(Noah) was a difference maker on the other end of the court.

We have had a more balanced attack the past couple of weeks. We've also been winning. Don't blame anyone else if you're not paying attention.

That's mostly from playing better defense which is something you'd hope to see progress with a defensive coach. Rubio is shooting a tad more since rumors started coming around about him being in trade talks, hopefully he keeps looking to help score. Once again... his PER36 shot attempts isn't even to 9 yet.

[AirP.]

Instead of Rubio trade talks why not consider Dunn? Say they get Noel and draft another PG.

Why? Just sign him in the offseason without giving anything up.