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Iowa Wolves/G League talk

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Klomp
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Re: Iowa Wolves/G League talk 

Post#301 » by Klomp » Fri Aug 9, 2019 8:08 pm

Jedzz wrote:Let's be honest about Graham's proven stats so far. He barely played much at first but had interesting numbers when he did. However last season when he got more minutes all of his numbers plummeted to a level I'm not comfortable with. When I think about veteran players and being positive about their additions, I'm also attributing Pro level skills to be expected from them and that includes shooting at least in NBA average zones. The examples we had last two seasons were what I'm happy with from Veteran rotation guys. Graham/Wallace aren't at that level that I can see by the numbers. I don't know what more we can expect. Maybe the coaches see more. How is there much hope in how they "fill in"?

Just as you are automatically assuming Culver can be in the rotation, and some claim even start, so too do I believe Nowell is near the same level. They both bring a wide range of skills they can already play with. These are things Wiggins and Okogie for example may still not have down and ready. Having the skills lets them fit in better with anything. So maybe you could elaborate on what it is you think Nowell is missing that someone like Culver isn't missing to deserve a shot in the games now? What in your mind makes Nowell a weakness if he should have an opportunity to just fill in, or even be part of a deep rotation? Is there something specific? Or are you just saying there are bodies in his way? If we actually have much better players, then Culver and Nowell should both go to Iowa for a while as the balance proves they are that good.

If Sounders locks this roster down to 9 guys all season I'm going to be starting the chants for his successor. I don't care who's idea it is. If we end up having to watch 3 players who can't shoot at NBA starting levels for 35-38 minutes per game again all season the team's leadership should be dragged out in the street and stomped on. Layman, Nowell and possibly Culver have a chance to be better than what we've had.

I'm sorry, as much as I like Nowell as a prospect I can't share the same belief you do that he is near the same level as Culver. GMs and draft scouts aren't infallible, but I don't think it can be ignored that Culver was widely considered a Top 5-10 pick while Nowell was a fringe 1st rounder who fell to the middle of the second round. It's not a guarantee for greater NBA success, but I believe it does indicate a gap in talent level and physical ability displayed on the court.

That being said, I've never said that I believe Nowell is a weakness or doesn't deserve a chance to earn minutes. Of course he has a chance, like everyone does. I'm just stating my opinions of how I believe things will shake out. It's less to do with Nowell's ability, and more to do with the ability of players ahead of him.

And Saunders wanting a 9-10 man rotation doesn't mean there will only be 9-10 players who play all season long. Having a tight rotation like that doesn't mean three players will be playing 35-38 minutes/game all season long either.
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Re: Iowa Wolves/G League talk 

Post#302 » by Jedzz » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:01 am

Klomp wrote:I'm sorry, as much as I like Nowell as a prospect I can't share the same belief you do that he is near the same level as Culver. GMs and draft scouts aren't infallible, but I don't think it can be ignored that Culver was widely considered a Top 5-10 pick while Nowell was a fringe 1st rounder who fell to the middle of the second round. It's not a guarantee for greater NBA success, but I believe it does indicate a gap in talent level and physical ability displayed on the court.

That being said, I've never said that I believe Nowell is a weakness or doesn't deserve a chance to earn minutes. Of course he has a chance, like everyone does. I'm just stating my opinions of how I believe things will shake out. It's less to do with Nowell's ability, and more to do with the ability of players ahead of him.


So what you are saying is, when you post a list of who you think should be in Iowa it is only based on draft status and contracts status of these players. You aren't actually checking if Wiggins is better or worse, if Okogie is, if any of them are? I know you have mentioned you think Okogie might/could see Iowa time for what we saw in SL and I agree. I think that shows you are open to honestly speaking about how these players actually play. Of course, Okogie wasn't a top 10 guy so it's easier to rain on his parade I guess.

I'm sorry, but I'm looking at how these players appear to actually play and what this team needs from them in order to win. I don't care where they were drafted, what their contracts are, how long the team is stuck with them or not. If we had an honest comparison of ready to use skills of Culver and Nowell versus the rest of the team right now, how many guards and wings should actually easily start over these two? Try to leave draft/contracts and anything non-game related out of it. So, maybe 2 or 3 at most? That would put them both in the top 9 to me.

I'm kind of hyped for the Iowa team. Seems like they might make some noise if we are sending half this roster down there.
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Re: Iowa Wolves/G League talk 

Post#303 » by Klomp » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:45 am

Jedzz wrote:So what you are saying is, when you post a list of who you think should be in Iowa it is only based on draft status and contracts status of these players.

When it comes to Culver and Nowell, that's all we have to go on at this point unfortunately.
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Re: Iowa Wolves/G League talk 

Post#304 » by Jedzz » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:09 am

Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:So what you are saying is, when you post a list of who you think should be in Iowa it is only based on draft status and contracts status of these players.

When it comes to Culver and Nowell, that's all we have to go on at this point unfortunately.

Well that's not entirely true is it?
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Re: Iowa Wolves/G League talk 

Post#305 » by KGdaBom » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:34 am

Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:So what you are saying is, when you post a list of who you think should be in Iowa it is only based on draft status and contracts status of these players.

When it comes to Culver and Nowell, that's all we have to go on at this point unfortunately.

Jedzz you seem to be saying we should consider Nowell to be Culver's equal until he is proven not to be. We haven't seen either of them play one professional minute. From what I see in college tape Culver is the better of the two and based on the evaluation of the scouts and the drafters Culver is by far the better of the two. If and when Nowell shows me something to make him worthy of being considered Culver's equal than I will move him up in my esteem, but not until then. Yes a lot of that has to do with draft status.
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Re: Iowa Wolves/G League talk 

Post#306 » by Klomp » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:36 am

Jedzz wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:So what you are saying is, when you post a list of who you think should be in Iowa it is only based on draft status and contracts status of these players.

When it comes to Culver and Nowell, that's all we have to go on at this point unfortunately.

Well that's not entirely true is it?

Since being drafted it is since neither played in Vegas.
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Re: Iowa Wolves/G League talk 

Post#307 » by KGdaBom » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:37 am

Jedzz wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:So what you are saying is, when you post a list of who you think should be in Iowa it is only based on draft status and contracts status of these players.

When it comes to Culver and Nowell, that's all we have to go on at this point unfortunately.

Well that's not entirely true is it?

We have college game film and to me that is easily in favor of Culver. Yes Nowell shot a good %. Does that make Cam Johnson the best player in this years draft? I think you are getting carried away on Nowell. If he turns out to be one of our best players this year though I will be the first to credit you for calling it.
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Re: Iowa Wolves/G League talk 

Post#308 » by Jedzz » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:30 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
Klomp wrote:When it comes to Culver and Nowell, that's all we have to go on at this point unfortunately.

Well that's not entirely true is it?

We have college game film and to me that is easily in favor of Culver. Yes Nowell shot a good %. Does that make Cam Johnson the best player in this years draft? I think you are getting carried away on Nowell. If he turns out to be one of our best players this year though I will be the first to credit you for calling it.

Not looking for credit. Rosas drafted him. I would rather see it unfold and just enjoy it.
We've already compared Culver/Nowell. Everyone needs to get over that. At least if you are trying to keep me in the conversation. It's not about comparing Culver to Nowell, other than I'm saying they are both more skilled than some of our incumbents and both should be given the chance to skip over incumbents if they are showing it. The distance between them is not 1-2 years of developing in Iowa. If nothing else, to be rotated in with them to carry on an early competition into the season. The convo started (in this Iowa thread), because of Klomps thoughts of who should automatically be likely in Iowa and who shouldn't.

Here's the deal. I agree that all we have are the college games to look back on. But if we truly look at what Culver and Nowell were doing in those games, we see a whole lot more skills at the ready than we would if we looked back at college games from guys like Anthony Bennett and Andrew Wiggins. It's absolutely true the draft has proven to be a crap shoot. However, these weren't normal Timberwolves picks on flights of fancy dreams. Rosas didn't draft the guys that can jump out of the gym and hope to learn them up. These guys know basketball. The only question is whether they will continue their good play and good decisions into this league and therefore at minimum be good rotation guys and at maximum who knows.

I don't think it should be a surprise that Nowell can shoot and knows this game. His father played pro ball, and I think I saw something about his father being a coach before he died. I think there is a number of decent players heading to Iowa no matter what.
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