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Ricky Rubio #9

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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1261 » by Heimdal » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:24 pm

Jedzz, I was comparing Rubio's first games as a Wolf with his 8 games in the bubble, where he averaged 13/9 shooting 43/42/93. I still think the Wolves with Towns have more weapons on offense than the Bubble Suns (Oubre didn't play). But, of course, the Suns actually have elite starting defenders like Bridges and Ayrton. Booker wasn't a matador like Russell. They played team basketball. Monty Williams is soooooo much better than Ryan Saunders.

Saunders and Rosas couldn't have handled his signing worse if they tried:
If you sign Rubio because you consider your team is young and inexperienced and needs a veteran floor general, you start Rubio. If you start Rubio, you run a good chunk of plays through him. That's his talent. If you are not, what's the point.

Yes, Rubio was traded by the Jazz and Suns (for Conley *as with Teague, Jazz fans eventually regretted the move* and Chris Paul) because they wanted to make THE leap, but that doesn't take away the fact Ricky has been the starting PG for:

A 48-34 5th seed that had lost its franchise player and with a rookie SG (Note: they finished the season 29-6 and reached the 2nd round of the playoffs losing to Harden)
A 50-32 5th seed (lost to Harden again)
*World Cup: gold medal and tournament MVP (not D.Mitchell, not Tatum, not Jokic... f***ing Ricky Rubio)
A 34-39 team that had gone 19-63 the season before. (Notes: Ayrton was suspended for 25 games. They finished the season 8-0).

Rubio's performances were better and better, and anyone watching him will confirm he was playing the best basketball of his career.

Then, the worst team in the entire league the season before trades for him and decides he's better as a spark from the bench. WHAT? Here we are now, Rubio starting but playing off-ball a ton, and bad habits keep spreading around because Saunders spent weeks promoting them instead of fixing them, even if he doesn't realize it.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1262 » by Killboard » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:41 pm

Heimdal wrote:Jedzz, I was comparing Rubio's first games as a Wolf with his 8 games in the bubble, where he averaged 13/9 shooting 43/42/93. I still think the Wolves with Towns have more weapons on offense than the Bubble Suns (Oubre didn't play). But, of course, the Suns actually have elite starting defenders like Bridges and Ayrton. Booker wasn't a matador like Russell. They played team basketball. Monty Williams is soooooo much better than Ryan Saunders.

Saunders and Rosas couldn't have handled his signing worse if they tried:
If you sign Rubio because you consider your team is young and inexperienced and needs a veteran floor general, you start Rubio. If you start Rubio, you run a good chunk of plays through him. That's his talent. If you are not, what's the point.

Yes, Rubio was traded by the Jazz and Suns (for Conley *as with Teague, Jazz fans eventually regretted the move* and Chris Paul) because they wanted to make THE leap, but that doesn't take away the fact Ricky has been the starting PG for:

A 48-34 5th seed that had lost its franchise player and with a rookie SG (Note: they finished the season 29-6 and reached the 2nd round of the playoffs losing to Harden)
A 50-32 5th seed (lost to Harden again)
*World Cup: gold medal and tournament MVP (not D.Mitchell, not Tatum, not Jokic... f***ing Ricky Rubio)
A 34-39 team that had gone 19-63 the season before. (Notes: Ayrton was suspended for 25 games. They finished the season 8-0).

Rubio's performances were better and better, and anyone watching him will confirm he was playing the best basketball of his career.

Then, the worst team in the entire league the season before trades for him and decides he's better as a spark from the bench. WHAT? Here we are now, Rubio starting but playing off-ball a ton, and bad habits keep spreading around because Saunders spent weeks promoting them instead of fixing them, even if he doesn't realize it.


Rubio off the bench worked when the best player was available. And yes, Rubio is a more impactful player than Dlo. But currently the problem isn't Rubio coming of the bench or Dlo. The problem is KAT isn't playing. You can't maximize Russell, Beasley, Edwards or Culver offensive skillset without a player like KAT gravitating.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1263 » by Heimdal » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:44 pm

Of course losing Towns is huge. 2nd most negative development? No chemistry, no team basketball, no defense. Benching Rubio and waiving RHJ sent clear messages.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1264 » by Dual » Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:33 pm

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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1265 » by Charly » Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:58 pm

Totally agree.
Get out selfishness and build a team.
Teamwork!!
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1266 » by Sugarless » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:21 pm

Dual wrote:


Ricky is going to have a really long, tough year. You can't have just one adult in the room with a bunch of kids doing whatever they please and zero accountability.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1267 » by Jedzz » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:23 pm

Heimdal wrote:Jedzz, I was comparing Rubio's first games as a Wolf with his 8 games in the bubble, where he averaged 13/9 shooting 43/42/93. I still think the Wolves with Towns have more weapons on offense than the Bubble Suns (Oubre didn't play). But, of course, the Suns actually have elite starting defenders like Bridges and Ayrton. Booker wasn't a matador like Russell. They played team basketball. Monty Williams is soooooo much better than Ryan Saunders.

Saunders and Rosas couldn't have handled his signing worse if they tried:
If you sign Rubio because you consider your team is young and inexperienced and needs a veteran floor general, you start Rubio. If you start Rubio, you run a good chunk of plays through him. That's his talent. If you are not, what's the point.


Yes, Rubio was traded by the Jazz and Suns (for Conley *as with Teague, Jazz fans eventually regretted the move* and Chris Paul) because they wanted to make THE leap, but that doesn't take away the fact Ricky has been the starting PG for:

A 48-34 5th seed that had lost its franchise player and with a rookie SG (Note: they finished the season 29-6 and reached the 2nd round of the playoffs losing to Harden)
A 50-32 5th seed (lost to Harden again)
*World Cup: gold medal and tournament MVP (not D.Mitchell, not Tatum, not Jokic... f***ing Ricky Rubio)
A 34-39 team that had gone 19-63 the season before. (Notes: Ayrton was suspended for 25 games. They finished the season 8-0).

Rubio's performances were better and better, and anyone watching him will confirm he was playing the best basketball of his career.

Then, the worst team in the entire league the season before trades for him and decides he's better as a spark from the bench. WHAT? Here we are now, Rubio starting but playing off-ball a ton, and bad habits keep spreading around because Saunders spent weeks promoting them instead of fixing them, even if he doesn't realize it.


I agree with everything you are saying. Especially the bolded, which pretty much goes for both Rubio and Dlo right now and limiting them and Beasley. Completely negates the reasoning given for bringing Rubio in at all.

Rubio/Dlo/Beasley all are being held back by the sales job on Edwards/Culver and the fans are getting the shortest end of this stick having to put up with this. Of course, we have many fans that think so highly of the most recent draft picks that they don't see this, they somehow see the Vets holding the kids back. Without a massive trade move I don't know how they plan to make this work for a full season. Culver I think is the one they are really trying to sell as a decision on him has to happen sooner. But it's just destroying how good this team could be having both Culver and Edwards leading and asking Rubio and Dlo to both play off so much, and forcing Beasley to be our cutting slasher instead of our shooter because Culver/Edwards refuse to or don't know how.

The defense thing had some people siding with Culver and even Edwards to this point. But if those people haven't seen Culver/Edwards blowing the defense and the switching in these couple blowouts I don't know what to say. They just don't have the game IQ yet and it will take time. Culver does show some individual good defensive moments at least. But we need team play. We can still get good enough team defense out of a team of bad defenders at least playng team ball, if we can find a set of players willing to play team ball.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1268 » by Jedzz » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:47 pm

Sugarless wrote:
Dual wrote:


Ricky is going to have a really long, tough year. You can't have just one adult in the room with a bunch of kids doing whatever they please and zero accountability.


Rubio nailed it. I still can't fathom how the coaches can't get them back on track when the players dump the gameplan and start playing by themselves. What are the coaches even in the building for if they can't do that?

Thanks for posting the video.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1269 » by Dewey » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:53 pm

Dual wrote:

If there are 4 more players on the team with the same embarrassed pissed off mindset, you got yourself a new starting 5.

Richly is right on the mark... no execution, no defense, and no fight ...
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1270 » by Jedzz » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:55 pm

Charly wrote:Totally agree.
Get out selfishness and build a team.
Teamwork!!

agree

I really think the coaches are handing out some conflicting directives to different players right now. I really think Ithey are trying to sell Culver and while they are telling Rubio one thing, they are pulling Culver aside and telling him to keep showcasing himself on ball and his so called improved shooting. They might also be donig this with Edwards but it's less of an urgency thing with him. Culver is on the second year and decisions will have to be made.

You can't try to groom Culver as a Point Guard after signing both Dlo and Rubio to play here. That's why what they are showing with him is a joke on us that this has to play out during the season. They simply didn't get the offers they wanted for Culver prior to this season so they are still trying very hard to up his value. They possibly either will continue this as is until everyone gets in a brawl pregame one day, or they are going to have to drop their expectations for a return for Culver.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1271 » by Jedzz » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:57 pm

Dewey wrote:
Dual wrote:

If there are 4 more players on the team with the same embarrassed pissed off mindset, you got yourself a new starting 5.

Richly is right on the mark... no execution, no defense, and no fight ...


Did you miss the part about no Team play and everyone playing on their own? How they started the Clippers game as a team and then.,.gone. The most important and first thing Rubio talks about.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1272 » by thinktank » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:01 pm

Okogie is more important to our defense and knowing when to switch than people realize.

Guy gets zero credit around here.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1273 » by Dewey » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:06 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Charly wrote:Totally agree.
Get out selfishness and build a team.
Teamwork!!

agree

I really think the coaches are handing out some conflicting directives to different players right now. I really think Ithey are trying to sell Culver and while they are telling Rubio one thing, they are pulling Culver aside and telling him to keep showcasing himself on ball and his so called improved shooting. They might also be donig this with Edwards but it's less of an urgency thing with him. Culver is on the second year and decisions will have to be made.

You can't try to groom Culver as a Point Guard after signing both Dlo and Rubio to play here. That's why what they are showing with him is a joke on us that this has to play out during the season. They simply didn't get the offers they wanted for Culver prior to this season so they are still trying very hard to up his value. They possibly either will continue this as is until everyone gets in a brawl pregame one day, or they are going to have to drop their expectations for a return for Culver.

We got far bigger issues than Culver & Edwards right now... Our issues point to leadership. Rubio is the first person in the organization to directly point out the selfishness and total lack of resilience when faced with adversity. NOBODY else ... Saunders, KAT, DLo, etc... Edwards and Culver are more victim.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1274 » by Jedzz » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:10 pm

Killboard wrote:
Rubio off the bench worked when the best player was available. And yes, Rubio is a more impactful player than Dlo. But currently the problem isn't Rubio coming of the bench or Dlo. The problem is KAT isn't playing. You can't maximize Russell, Beasley, Edwards or Culver offensive skillset without a player like KAT gravitating.


Obviously you can't replace what KAT can do and how the team can lean on him. But I don't think him being out has anything to do with this.

If you can and have any access, watch that first quarter of the Clippers game again. No Towns is needed if they play even three quarters in that fashion. The Clippers had no answer for the Timberwolves playing team ball like that.

What followed was a bunch of individuals doing their own thing and a blowout from it. As soon as the rotation changes came it was all over. It's the conflicting role play of a couple players (Culver/Edwards) caused by the coaches and what they are telling them to do, coupled with the continued insertion of Layman/Juancho who just don't fit with this group where they planned to. It snoballs into hell.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1275 » by Jedzz » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:14 pm

Dewey wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
Charly wrote:Totally agree.
Get out selfishness and build a team.
Teamwork!!

agree

I really think the coaches are handing out some conflicting directives to different players right now. I really think Ithey are trying to sell Culver and while they are telling Rubio one thing, they are pulling Culver aside and telling him to keep showcasing himself on ball and his so called improved shooting. They might also be donig this with Edwards but it's less of an urgency thing with him. Culver is on the second year and decisions will have to be made.

You can't try to groom Culver as a Point Guard after signing both Dlo and Rubio to play here. That's why what they are showing with him is a joke on us that this has to play out during the season. They simply didn't get the offers they wanted for Culver prior to this season so they are still trying very hard to up his value. They possibly either will continue this as is until everyone gets in a brawl pregame one day, or they are going to have to drop their expectations for a return for Culver.

We got far bigger issues than Culver & Edwards right now... Our issues point to leadership. Rubio is the first person in the organization to directly point out the selfishness and total lack of resilience when faced with adversity. NOBODY else ... Saunders, KAT, DLo, etc... Edwards and Culver are more victim.


Edwards and Culver are Victims only because of what Rosas is trying to do right now outside the game itself. If you can't see the conflicting message going out to them right now, if you can't see the conflicting roster message of adding Dlo/Rubio and then drafting Edwards and bringing Culver back into PG roles...None of this has anything to do with building a season long team play. It is the leadership doing this, Rosas.

There is no way a coach should be able to say hey they all just went there own way after that first quarter and there is nothing I could do about it. They are sending conflicting message to many of them right now. You see them all getting pulled aside and talked to, but the message isn't the same.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1276 » by Jedzz » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:32 am

SkyhookinUrMom wrote:Through 4 games, plusminus when on the court. Totals

DLo: -61
Rubio: +1


We aren't about to start letting plusminus rule our thoughts now are we? I get it has a place.

These two have been playing alot together, and then alot with completely different players.

The first two games Dlo hardly played point. There is just nothing to gain from any numbers right now. I can point to a few saying the opposite and I have no desire to because this team is just hashed right now and it's all meaningless. What has there been now, four games for four different sets of players getting starting level minutes and all kinds of strange role changes.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1277 » by Charly » Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:46 am

Jedzz wrote:
SkyhookinUrMom wrote:Through 4 games, plusminus when on the court. Totals

DLo: -61
Rubio: +1


We aren't about to start letting plusminus rule our thoughts now are we? I get it has a place.

These two have been playing alot together, and then alot with completely different players.

The first two games Dlo hardly played point. There is just nothing to gain from any numbers right now. I can point to a few saying the opposite and I have no desire to because this team is just hashed right now and it's all meaningless. What has there been now, four games for four different sets of players getting starting level minutes and all kinds of strange role changes.


Yep. That is the right.
We don't have to compare players.
The problem is lack of compromise with common project to create team work.
How winning games is the only important.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1278 » by SkyhookinUrMom » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:30 pm

Jedzz wrote:
SkyhookinUrMom wrote:Through 4 games, plusminus when on the court. Totals

DLo: -61
Rubio: +1


We aren't about to start letting plusminus rule our thoughts now are we? I get it has a place.

These two have been playing alot together, and then alot with completely different players.

The first two games Dlo hardly played point. There is just nothing to gain from any numbers right now. I can point to a few saying the opposite and I have no desire to because this team is just hashed right now and it's all meaningless. What has there been now, four games for four different sets of players getting starting level minutes and all kinds of strange role changes.


Watching the Clippers game after Rubio went out in the 1st the team totally collapsed, so out of curiosity I went look at the plusminus totals. I only posted an observation I thought was funny, didnt even try to interpret it or conclude nothing. Its only 4 games, certainly theres many other factors impacting those +/- numbers as you point out and one metric cant tell the whole story. Still surprising numbers nonetheless.

Lets see how they look after 10 games.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1279 » by Saberestar » Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:03 pm

As a Suns fan who watched him every game last season I think it's crazy that he is not having a bigger role on this Wolves team.

This team is talented but super young and raw, some of your youngsters need help to understand sets and half court plays. Rubio can balance those problems and make the team better.
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Re: Ricky Rubio #9 

Post#1280 » by Jedzz » Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:24 pm

Dual wrote:


This may be the most honest, poignant and most necessary interview speech I've ever seen a player offer. We all like to think players/teammates/coaches/coworkers can communicate well but it rarely comes off as well as is needed.

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