Ricky Rubio #9

[winforlose]

Yeah, that's exactly what I said, that by him being the best Jazz player in the playoffs both seasons he was being carried by his teammates. He was also being carried by his teammates with the Spanish NT when he won the MVP and he was carried by Kelly Oubre (who wasn't even active during the 8-0 bubble run) and DeAndre Ayton, of all people. Man, are you missing everything.

Please stop talking out of your ass about a player and teams that you haven't watched. Getting exposed like that is really not dignified, at all.

I don’t watch or follow any basketball league other than the NBA. I cannot speak to what Ricky did with the Spanish national team. I can speak to what he was when he came here, as I watched him every season. Ricky increased his scoring by 2 points per game during his first year with Utah. He went from 11.1 to 13.1. His rebounding stayed about the same, and he averaged 4 less assists per game. You can check BB reference to confirm. Please explain to me how that is improvement?

I will grant you he had a better year last year playing in 65 games with a team that had a lot of firepower. Oh and I forgot to mention, during this his best season he still only averaged 13 points per game. That said, he came here and fell of a fu***** cliff. Look up his season numbers. Sure he got hot for a 4-5 game stretch, but that doesn’t make up for his role in our becoming the worst team in basketball. Averaging around 6 points per game for most of the season.

So, basically, you are making a point that you judge the performances by checking the box scores.

I am not sure if I will respond beyond this as I feel I made this point before at least twice elsewhere in the thread. My position is simple. If stats remain consistent between seasons then that is a good indicator of a players baseline. Above someone mentioned that Ricky played great in a 35 game stretch for Utah during the 17-18 season. But, the season is 82 games plus playoffs. Also, if the player turned a corner and actually elevated their game, it should show in later seasons. Also, as I mentioned above, some players skills are transferable, while others are not. Using Beasley as an example, his 3 point shooting should be consistent across teams so long as he gets the same number of minutes and touches. Ricky has shown that his skills are not transferring as the moment he goes back to a bad team with a bad system he becomes a bad player. All of this on top of my watching his first and second stints with the Wolves tells me he is not radically improved. He will do better elsewhere where he can be carried by better teammates and a more productive system. He is not however consistently quantifiably better then he was when left the first time, and his numbers and performance this season prove that.

[shangrila]

I agree with breatnach.

Rubio isn't wrong per se but saying it 3-4 games in to a new coach's tenure is undermining, whether he intends it that way or not. I get that it's been a long season for him and the team but this seems counterproductive, especially given the circumstances. Percentage-wise we're down our 2 best shooters and average wise we're short roughly 40ppg. That's a hell of a hole for any team to climb out of, let alone a team already ranked 27th offensively. Add on top of it COVID, a lack of training at all let alone a camp for this staff and it's unfair on Finch to be saying these things now.

Or he sees this as a reset and doesnt want to fall into the same patterns for the new coach.

Finch has had, what, 1-2 practices at this point? How much change were people expecting?

[Sugarless]

I agree with breatnach.

Rubio isn't wrong per se but saying it 3-4 games in to a new coach's tenure is undermining, whether he intends it that way or not. I get that it's been a long season for him and the team but this seems counterproductive, especially given the circumstances. Percentage-wise we're down our 2 best shooters and average wise we're short roughly 40ppg. That's a hell of a hole for any team to climb out of, let alone a team already ranked 27th offensively. Add on top of it COVID, a lack of training at all let alone a camp for this staff and it's unfair on Finch to be saying these things now.

Or he sees this as a reset and doesnt want to fall into the same patterns for the new coach.

Finch has had, what, 1-2 practices at this point? How much change were people expecting?

I don't read it that way, nor do most people to be honest. Rubio's message is way more about the players (plus the FO and ownership) than it is about Finch. Rubio is a team guy and he always makes it a point to have a good relationship with his coaches, while he's always talking to his teammates whether he's trying to cheer them up or to correct things. It wouldn't be in his character to point fingers at the HC when they're just 4 games into his tenure, but he's definitely warning everyone (as he should) that there needs to be change instead of digging deeper into bad habits, like we've seen since Ryan's departure.

[Merc_Porto]

And practice or not there's simple adjustments that could have been made. Going again with Okogie, Vando and Rubio in the same lineup has nothing to do with the lack of practices. Just look at the film...

4 games, 3 blowouts. Maybe is on purpose idk
But if is on purpose why the hell did we fire Ryan in the first place...

[winforlose]

And practice or not there's simple adjustments that could have been made. Going again with Okogie, Vando and Rubio in the same lineup has nothing to do with the lack of practices. Just look at the film...

4 games, 3 blowouts. Maybe is on purpose idk
But if is on purpose why the hell did we fire Ryan in the first place...

In Finch’s defense, Culver getting rehab minutes in the second unit is fairly disruptive, losing a Nowell and having to pair Okogie and Culver in that unit isn’t much better. My original take was Layman as a starter and Okogie on the bench. I think the biggest reason he started Okogie is because he wanted to see what Ryan saw when he made him a starter. I don’t think this season (and especially this part of the season without Beasley, Dlo, or any practice time,) is about winning, it’s about evaluating and then modifying to get the ball rolling for next season. I do happen to agree with you 100% that the group you mentioned simply cannot play together. Then again, I firmly believe Vando is not playable until he can catch and shoot consistently within 5 feet. I also believe Okogie is not playable unless he is in motion on offense. Standing in a corner when he is not a three point shooter just brings another defender to the paint and stifles the rest of the offense.

[Worm Guts]

And practice or not there's simple adjustments that could have been made. Going again with Okogie, Vando and Rubio in the same lineup has nothing to do with the lack of practices. Just look at the film...

4 games, 3 blowouts. Maybe is on purpose idk
But if is on purpose why the hell did we fire Ryan in the first place...

Finch came in with little exposure to the Wolves roster, it's probably to be expected that it will take a couple weeks for him to figure out what he has, let alone fix it.

[LesGrossman]

So if you all disagree with me, answer me this: Is Finch already done? Rubio appears to think so. It seems the Head Coach is not able to motivate his players or get them to buy into his vision. Last week Rubio wanted to have a talk with Finch to understand his role and this week he appears to have abandoned his will to be on this team - what the hell kind of meeting was that?! What did Finch say?

The perfect timing for Ricky would have been before Ryan had been fired, because that's when you can actually make a change. Has the hiring of a new coach not sparked some new life into the team? Has it perhaps even made things worse? So, do we fire Finch now? If not, then it's going to be a very awkward locker room, if the team is in open rebellion.

The problem is not one of the coach. He will probably come up with servicable plays and the offense will improve. The underlying problems wont go away with Finch though. And he had enough time to tell Ant to stop chucking, and in case he ignores it, to bench him. It didnt happen. People whine about Rubio when it is the rookie who continues to cost wins. Volume chucker without regrets or any sign of improvement, the only chance would be a coaches' intervention.

Also have to understand, Ricky came in as someone used to work hard and win. The wolves are a bunch of losers, to be honest. He has been asked to be patient over and over again, and nothing ever changed. The same bad habits...high draft picks acting entitled, playing no defennse, playing for their stats instead of the W, coaches with double standards for their "stars" vs. the other guys, noone being held accountable. At some point and at his age and stage in his career, he must drop the niceness and speak out and look to be in a winning environment. I wrote it elsewhere...if you look at his history, he helped build half a culture in minnesota, just to be traded for Jeff Teague when they were ready to at least reach the playoffs. Went to Utah, helped there, lead them to a second round, and when they were ready to do more, he was traded for Conley (who started with a forgettable season and was a clear regression from Rubio). Went to the Suns who were basically the Wolves with better weather, turned them around. Literally. Turned booker into a team guy, turned Ayton from a child into a man. Ended up 8-0 with them in the bubble, everyone feeling good and looking forward to the coming season which was destined to be a success. Of course, he gets traded again for CP3, and then again for a bag of potatoes, just to play behind DLo come from the bench and be told to be patient.

He is done building something just to be kicked out when its ready.

[Klomp]

I don't read it that way, nor do most people to be honest. Rubio's message is way more about the players (plus the FO and ownership) than it is about Finch. Rubio is a team guy and he always makes it a point to have a good relationship with his coaches, while he's always talking to his teammates whether he's trying to cheer them up or to correct things. It wouldn't be in his character to point fingers at the HC when they're just 4 games into his tenure, but he's definitely warning everyone (as he should) that there needs to be change instead of digging deeper into bad habits, like we've seen since Ryan's departure.

It may have been his intent, but it was poorly timed.

[Jedzz]

I think any trade involving the Clippers-Wolves for Rubio needs a 3rd team.
Unless we do a favor (gratitude move) to Ricky and let him go for a team with championship hopes.
The Clippers dont have any kind of assets to give us.

Simply getting off Ricky's contract is enough. What's the point of a 17M 30 year old player on a 2 year deal when we're gonna suck ass for the rest of his career? Let him go someplace non-miserable.

But on that trade you're getting a 32yo Beverley on a 2 year contract, 14M

We'll take a TPE in return instead. They can buy someone out to make room for Rubio. Or they can send a future pick asset for JMac instead.

[Sugarless]

I don't read it that way, nor do most people to be honest. Rubio's message is way more about the players (plus the FO and ownership) than it is about Finch. Rubio is a team guy and he always makes it a point to have a good relationship with his coaches, while he's always talking to his teammates whether he's trying to cheer them up or to correct things. It wouldn't be in his character to point fingers at the HC when they're just 4 games into his tenure, but he's definitely warning everyone (as he should) that there needs to be change instead of digging deeper into bad habits, like we've seen since Ryan's departure.

It may have been his intent, but it was poorly timed.

When do you guys think it'd have been the right time? Had it been at the beginning of the season it would have been too early, many would have claimed he was lacking patience. Had it been a couple weeks ago, with Ryan's job on the line and close to his eventual departure, people would have linked it to his firing (and to make things worse since we know they have a close personal relationship, it would've been portrayed as some kind of treason or backstabbing). Should he wait until the end of the season? Then there's no point in saying anything, the Wolves will have lost the whole season. After the All-Star, closer to the deadline? Then maybe he gets traded and the new narrative is that his words cost him getting moved to another team, or that he just quit and asked out.

The real issure here is there's never a right time to tell the raw, hard truth to those that don't want to hear it. It's a recurrent theme in Minnesota and judging by some of the reactions it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

[Jedzz]

Rubio's words being talked about.
https://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/ricky-rubio-more-harsh-words-minnesota-timberwolves/574611
“We have to build good habits from day one, and I don’t think we are in the right way, to be honest,” said Rubio, per Jon Krawczynski of The Athletic. “I can be here and be positive like we’re trying to be and it’s OK. But we have the worst record in the league. We lost way too many games by 20-plus.

“I don’t feel like this is building something,” he added. “It’s hard. You always have to take positive things. Of course, we want to get better. But at some point we got to start wanting to change something, and it’s not happening.”

[Jedzz]

When do you guys think it'd have been the right time?

There isn't one. He could be saying it to coaches and team and living or dieing with the results of that. Speaking this out in the media is just releasing his frustrations for himself, maybe trying to get traded out, maybe partially trying to distance himself from all the value losing going on, maybe a last ditch effort to shame them into operating better. Whatever the case I don't really blame him. He got suckered into coming back to a team that often decides to have loser seasons before the season even starts. This being yet another one. Why should he want to stay?

[Klomp]

I don't read it that way, nor do most people to be honest. Rubio's message is way more about the players (plus the FO and ownership) than it is about Finch. Rubio is a team guy and he always makes it a point to have a good relationship with his coaches, while he's always talking to his teammates whether he's trying to cheer them up or to correct things. It wouldn't be in his character to point fingers at the HC when they're just 4 games into his tenure, but he's definitely warning everyone (as he should) that there needs to be change instead of digging deeper into bad habits, like we've seen since Ryan's departure.

It may have been his intent, but it was poorly timed.

When do you guys think it'd have been the right time? Had it been at the beginning of the season it would have been too early, many would have claimed he was lacking patience. Had it been a couple weeks ago, with Ryan's job on the line and close to his eventual departure, people would have linked it to his firing (and to make things worse since we know they have a close personal relationship, it would've been portrayed as some kind of treason or backstabbing). Should he wait until the end of the season? Then there's no point in saying anything, the Wolves will have lost the whole season. After the All-Star, closer to the deadline? Then maybe he gets traded and the new narrative is that his words cost him getting moved to another team, or that he just quit and asked out.

The real issure here is there's never a right time to tell the raw, hard truth to those that don't want to hear it. It's a recurrent theme in Minnesota and judging by some of the reactions it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

Then he needs to say more than just "I think the coach has a lot on his plate" in reference to him, if it has nothing to do with the new coach. At least learn his name...not naming Finch by name tells me he hasn't fully bought in.

Make it 100% clear he's talking about management and/or the players, or don't bother saying it. Communication isn't only just about speaking the truth, it's about doing so the right way and clearly. Leaving gray area only just allows people with a clear agenda against one side (such as yourself) to slant and twist things into the way they want it to mean.

[Sugarless]

It may have been his intent, but it was poorly timed.

When do you guys think it'd have been the right time? Had it been at the beginning of the season it would have been too early, many would have claimed he was lacking patience. Had it been a couple weeks ago, with Ryan's job on the line and close to his eventual departure, people would have linked it to his firing (and to make things worse since we know they have a close personal relationship, it would've been portrayed as some kind of treason or backstabbing). Should he wait until the end of the season? Then there's no point in saying anything, the Wolves will have lost the whole season. After the All-Star, closer to the deadline? Then maybe he gets traded and the new narrative is that his words cost him getting moved to another team, or that he just quit and asked out.

The real issure here is there's never a right time to tell the raw, hard truth to those that don't want to hear it. It's a recurrent theme in Minnesota and judging by some of the reactions it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

Then he needs to say more than just "I think the coach has a lot on his plate" in reference to him, if it has nothing to do with the new coach. At least learn his name...not naming Finch by name tells me he hasn't fully bought in.

He didn't say his name so he hasn't fully bought in? Man, you're grasping at straws.

Also, it's rich of you to say that I have a clear agenda when everybody knows you're the ultimate company man. You continue to defend everything the organization does until they inevitably need to change course, at which point you'll start backpedaling and buying whatever they're selling next.

[Merc_Porto]

Rubio wants to get the hell out of here.
Too bad we didn't had at least an home game with crowd... The return of KG was one of the most fun games i ever seen as a Timberwolves fan.

I'm sure a Rubio return would also be very excited with a Target Center packed.

[shangrila]

I don't read it that way, nor do most people to be honest. Rubio's message is way more about the players (plus the FO and ownership) than it is about Finch. Rubio is a team guy and he always makes it a point to have a good relationship with his coaches, while he's always talking to his teammates whether he's trying to cheer them up or to correct things. It wouldn't be in his character to point fingers at the HC when they're just 4 games into his tenure, but he's definitely warning everyone (as he should) that there needs to be change instead of digging deeper into bad habits, like we've seen since Ryan's departure.

It may have been his intent, but it was poorly timed.

When do you guys think it'd have been the right time? Had it been at the beginning of the season it would have been too early, many would have claimed he was lacking patience. Had it been a couple weeks ago, with Ryan's job on the line and close to his eventual departure, people would have linked it to his firing (and to make things worse since we know they have a close personal relationship, it would've been portrayed as some kind of treason or backstabbing). Should he wait until the end of the season? Then there's no point in saying anything, the Wolves will have lost the whole season. After the All-Star, closer to the deadline? Then maybe he gets traded and the new narrative is that his words cost him getting moved to another team, or that he just quit and asked out.

The real issure here is there's never a right time to tell the raw, hard truth to those that don't want to hear it. It's a recurrent theme in Minnesota and judging by some of the reactions it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

No, that would have been the perfect time. You've been losing without any significant improvements under the same coaching staff you had last year that had somewhat of a training camp to implement their system. If anyone equated that with Ryan losing a job then that's on them. Rubio has never had that kind of sway in this organisation.

The real issue here is the timing. If he'd said it 2 weeks ago it would have made sense. Right now it's undermining a new coach before he's gotten a chance to start, whether he intended that or not.

[Sugarless]

It may have been his intent, but it was poorly timed.

When do you guys think it'd have been the right time? Had it been at the beginning of the season it would have been too early, many would have claimed he was lacking patience. Had it been a couple weeks ago, with Ryan's job on the line and close to his eventual departure, people would have linked it to his firing (and to make things worse since we know they have a close personal relationship, it would've been portrayed as some kind of treason or backstabbing). Should he wait until the end of the season? Then there's no point in saying anything, the Wolves will have lost the whole season. After the All-Star, closer to the deadline? Then maybe he gets traded and the new narrative is that his words cost him getting moved to another team, or that he just quit and asked out.

The real issure here is there's never a right time to tell the raw, hard truth to those that don't want to hear it. It's a recurrent theme in Minnesota and judging by some of the reactions it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

No, that would have been the perfect time. You've been losing without any significant improvements under the same coaching staff you had last year that had somewhat of a training camp to implement their system. If anyone equated that with Ryan losing a job then that's on them. Rubio has never had that kind of sway in this organisation.

The real issue here is the timing. If he'd said it 2 weeks ago it would have made sense. Right now it's undermining a new coach before he's gotten a chance to start, whether he intended that or not.

Would it, though? I don't doubt you think so, but I've been reading over and over how you couldn't judge this team or this coach because they didn't have Towns, or they didn't have Russell, or the rookies and sophomores were still learning and they didn't even have a proper training camp. Plus Rubio wasn't here last season. If fans have been told they weren't being patient after years of watching the Timberwolves lose, imagine what they'd have said of Rubio barely 2 months into his first season back with the team and under a completely different regime.

It's about time someone in this organization tries to hold people accountable (I've been repeating the same word for years when it came to the Timberwolves, and here we are yet another season). I wish the response from part of the fanbase was different, but what I really hope is that someone upstairs actually listens and things start to change for the better.

[Heimdal]

Rubio wants to get the hell out of here.

Exactly. In a matter of days Rubio has stated:
That he needs to talk to Finch about his (bench) role moving forward. Supposedly, that talk happened because Finch met individually with each player.
Then, after the following game, he made clear he thinks the franchise is going nowhere.

Call me crazy, but that's a trade request if I ever saw one.

[Neeva]

Bricky should never have been brought back sorry not sorry bricky fans.

[Andri]

I don't read it that way, nor do most people to be honest. Rubio's message is way more about the players (plus the FO and ownership) than it is about Finch. Rubio is a team guy and he always makes it a point to have a good relationship with his coaches, while he's always talking to his teammates whether he's trying to cheer them up or to correct things. It wouldn't be in his character to point fingers at the HC when they're just 4 games into his tenure, but he's definitely warning everyone (as he should) that there needs to be change instead of digging deeper into bad habits, like we've seen since Ryan's departure.

It may have been his intent, but it was poorly timed.

Yes, anytime is poorly timed, do I get it right?