Trade Ideas thread

[KGdaBom]

But could get 30% if they reach certain thresholds, as I included above.

Is it 30% for each of the possible 5 years?
Or 30% for 5th year only?

Wasn't sure about that part

EDIT

He can get 30% in 2019-20

KAT would start in 2019-20 at 30%, probably $32-33 mil with 8% raises, so around $42 mil in 2023-24

You got it. They want that extra 5% of the cap on the first year of a new contract, and then all the max 8% raises would be based on that high first year.

If you are interested in learning more, check out the "Derrick Rose rule."

So most likely Kat and Wigs will combine for 55% of the cap once they have both signed there second contracts. That doesn't sound too bad. I think Butler will be worth getting the max as well. Do we have an option to give him the super max if he plays spectacularly for us or is that right only for the original team. I have heard we have no right to pay Jimmy Butler more than anybody else. Is that correct?


FIRST POST OF PAGE 100!!! YES!!!!

[Oriole8159]

no, super max (35% of cap) is the designated veteran extension. Have to have 8 years of experience and have the award qualifications like DPOY or All-NBA

Wig and KAT will be eligible to 25-30% of cap

Wig frankly doesn't deserve that much and there have been better players like Gobert, McCullom, Giannis that have taken less than they are eligible to receive, so there is precedent

Unless Wiggins takes a huge leap in his defense(which could happen), I'm not so sure he's still in Minnesota at the start of the 2018 season. I don't think Thibs will pay the max(like he'd get on the market) to retain Wiggins. His defense currently isn't good and it really looks like all he can do is score which is always good but his scoring role will be reduced with the additions of Butler, Teague and Crawford.

I do wonder if LaVine hadn't went down if Wiggins would have been moved instead of the package they sent. It's quite possible it would have been Wiggins and Rubio for Butler while keeping the 7th pick.

I'd make a bet with you that he will be in Minnesota at the start of next season.

that's not the bet to throw out, it's whether MN is the team that pays him his next $100 million contract when 2018 rolls around.
He'll definitely be in MN at the beginning of this year though.

[shrink]

You got it. They want that extra 5% of the cap on the first year of a new contract, and then all the max 8% raises would be based on that high first year.

If you are interested in learning more, check out the "Derrick Rose rule."

So most likely Kat and Wigs will combine for 55% of the cap once they have both signed there second contracts. That doesn't sound too bad. I think Butler will be worth getting the max as well. Do we have an option to give him the super max if he plays spectacularly for us or is that right only for the original team. I have heard we have no right to pay Jimmy Butler more than anybody else. Is that correct?

FIRST POST OF PAGE 100!!! YES!!!!

Yes, you are right about Town and Wiggins. Towns was on the edge of qualifying last year, so it's very likely their first contracts will be for 25% and 20% of the salary cap. That seems expensive, but most max deals are value contracts, attached to superstars, and the rules for max deals keep them cheaper than they would be on the open market. in 9-10 years, their second free agent deals could be 30% and 25%. Also, people should remember that isn't 55% of your total payroll. If the cap stayed at $100 mil like it is now, most playoff teams are running a the lux ($120) or higher than that.

As for Jimmy Butler, what you heard was that he can't get the extra 5% from the Designated Player. that can only be awarded to players who have remained on their teams since they were somewhere on rookie scale. If he has nine years of experience when he gets his next max deal, it will start around $30 mil, if we still have a $100 mil salary cap. And again, that would be a value price.

[AirP.]

no, super max (35% of cap) is the designated veteran extension. Have to have 8 years of experience and have the award qualifications like DPOY or All-NBA

Wig and KAT will be eligible to 25-30% of cap

Wig frankly doesn't deserve that much and there have been better players like Gobert, McCullom, Giannis that have taken less than they are eligible to receive, so there is precedent

Unless Wiggins takes a huge leap in his defense(which could happen), I'm not so sure he's still in Minnesota at the start of the 2018 season. I don't think Thibs will pay the max(like he'd get on the market) to retain Wiggins. His defense currently isn't good and it really looks like all he can do is score which is always good but his scoring role will be reduced with the additions of Butler, Teague and Crawford.

I do wonder if LaVine hadn't went down if Wiggins would have been moved instead of the package they sent. It's quite possible it would have been Wiggins and Rubio for Butler while keeping the 7th pick.

I'd make a bet with you that he will be in Minnesota at the start of next season.

It'll be interesting to see what happens because in 2 more off seasons the great value rookie contracts for 2 of Minnesota's top 3 players will command max contracts. Wiggins should be the #3 option behind Towns and Butler and the PG will take more shots then Rubio did. So Wiggin's scoring should drop(it should get more efficient also).

So if he averages 18 ppg, 2.5 ast, 4 reb with better scoring efficiency and say he looks average or a little better on defense is he going to be worth a max contract?

Just looking 2 off-seasons from now in 2019 Towns, Butler, Wiggins and Dieng will command around 90-95 million a year(If Teague picks up his option Minnesota may be over the cap). Towns should be a bargain for his production, I believe Butler will be well worth his max till around age 33-34 but I'm not sure Wiggins, even if he's the #2 option will be worth the max. He hasn't shown the vision of being a play maker, doesn't really get many rebounds and at this point his defense is lacking. If Wiggins does get better maybe they move Butler? I just don't think Wiggins will show enough improvement to make that the best team Minnesota could be with Towns as the franchise player.

[KGdaBom]

You got it. They want that extra 5% of the cap on the first year of a new contract, and then all the max 8% raises would be based on that high first year.

If you are interested in learning more, check out the "Derrick Rose rule."

So most likely Kat and Wigs will combine for 55% of the cap once they have both signed there second contracts. That doesn't sound too bad. I think Butler will be worth getting the max as well. Do we have an option to give him the super max if he plays spectacularly for us or is that right only for the original team. I have heard we have no right to pay Jimmy Butler more than anybody else. Is that correct?

FIRST POST OF PAGE 100!!! YES!!!!

Yes, you are right about Town and Wiggins. Towns was on the edge of qualifying last year, so it's very likely their first contracts will be for 25% and 20% of the salary cap. That seems expensive, but most max deals are value contracts, attached to superstars, and the rules for max deals keep them cheaper than they would be on the open market. in 9-10 years, their second free agent deals could be 30% and 25%. Also, people should remember that isn't 55% of your total payroll. If the cap stayed at $100 mil like it is now, most playoff teams are running a the lux ($120) or higher than that.

As for Jimmy Butler, what you heard was that he can't get the extra 5% from the Designated Player. that can only be awarded to players who have remained on their teams since they were somewhere on rookie scale. If he has nine years of experience when he gets his next max deal, it will start around $30 mil, if we still have a $100 mil salary cap. And again, that would be a value price.

I thought max contracts for Towns and Wiggins would be 30% and 25%. This is assuming that Towns meets the criteria and Wiggins doesn't.

[KGdaBom]

Unless Wiggins takes a huge leap in his defense(which could happen), I'm not so sure he's still in Minnesota at the start of the 2018 season. I don't think Thibs will pay the max(like he'd get on the market) to retain Wiggins. His defense currently isn't good and it really looks like all he can do is score which is always good but his scoring role will be reduced with the additions of Butler, Teague and Crawford.

I do wonder if LaVine hadn't went down if Wiggins would have been moved instead of the package they sent. It's quite possible it would have been Wiggins and Rubio for Butler while keeping the 7th pick.

I'd make a bet with you that he will be in Minnesota at the start of next season.

It'll be interesting to see what happens because in 2 more off seasons the great value rookie contracts for 2 of Minnesota's top 3 players will command max contracts. Wiggins should be the #3 option behind Towns and Butler and the PG will take more shots then Rubio did. So Wiggin's scoring should drop(it should get more efficient also).

So if he averages 18 ppg, 2.5 ast, 4 reb with better scoring efficiency and say he looks average or a little better on defense is he going to be worth a max contract?

Just looking 2 off-seasons from now in 2019 Towns, Butler, Wiggins and Dieng will command around 90-95 million a year(If Teague picks up his option Minnesota may be over the cap). Towns should be a bargain for his production, I believe Butler will be well worth his max till around age 33-34 but I'm not sure Wiggins, even if he's the #2 option will be worth the max. He hasn't shown the vision of being a play maker, doesn't really get many rebounds and at this point his defense is lacking. If Wiggins does get better maybe they move Butler? I just don't think Wiggins will show enough improvement to make that the best team Minnesota could be with Towns as the franchise player.

Their is something to be said for continuity. If Wiggins shows reasonable improvement I think we will max him. I sure hope Butler and Teague reup and of Course KAT.

[AirP.]

Unless Wiggins takes a huge leap in his defense(which could happen), I'm not so sure he's still in Minnesota at the start of the 2018 season. I don't think Thibs will pay the max(like he'd get on the market) to retain Wiggins. His defense currently isn't good and it really looks like all he can do is score which is always good but his scoring role will be reduced with the additions of Butler, Teague and Crawford.

I do wonder if LaVine hadn't went down if Wiggins would have been moved instead of the package they sent. It's quite possible it would have been Wiggins and Rubio for Butler while keeping the 7th pick.

I'd make a bet with you that he will be in Minnesota at the start of next season.

that's not the bet to throw out, it's whether MN is the team that pays him his next $100 million contract when 2018 rolls around.
He'll definitely be in MN at the beginning of this year though.

I think he was referring to the start of the 2018 season like I was, not the next(2017) season. Unless Wiggins makes some pretty big leaps in his overall game I don't think he'll be worth a max contract(yet someone will offer him one). I don't think Minnesota will be willing to pay tons of luxury tax like GS and some big markets are willing to do to keep their high priced talent.

[shrink]

I thought max contracts for Towns and Wiggins would be 30% and 25%. This is assuming that Towns meets the criteria and Wiggins doesn't.

oops! you're right. All these 5%'s are bouncing around in my mind. I'll edit. Thanks.

BTW, I should also mention that a player can also choose to sign a deal that's 105% of his previous contract, even if that is higher than a max deal based on the salary cap. This might occur if the salary cap stops going up.

[Ethomasp31]

I'd make a bet with you that he will be in Minnesota at the start of next season.

that's not the bet to throw out, it's whether MN is the team that pays him his next $100 million contract when 2018 rolls around.
He'll definitely be in MN at the beginning of this year though.

I think he was referring to the start of the 2018 season like I was, not the next(2017) season. Unless Wiggins makes some pretty big leaps in his overall game I don't think he'll be worth a max contract(yet someone will offer him one). I don't think Minnesota will be willing to pay tons of luxury tax like GS and some big markets are willing to do to keep their high priced talent.

They aren't going to let Wiggins just leave. Wiggins just turned 22 years, can create his own shot, and gets to the line. Otto Porter just signed a contract over $100 million...and you don't think the Wolves, who have a billionaire owner won't pay Wiggins? If that's the case this team is truly hopeless. Did you hear the way Taylor talked about Wiggins when he was brought up on Doogie podcast after the draft? There is no chance they won't pay him.

[AirP.]

Their is something to be said for continuity. If Wiggins shows reasonable improvement I think we will max him. I sure hope Butler and Teague reup and of Course KAT.

As good as I think Butler is(he carried a horrible roster to .500 last year) this franchise ceiling is Towns. He's the franchise player, he's going to be the incredible value at a max contract. All moves in the next couple of years should be putting the best team around Towns. You don't want to limit your team's ceiling by overpaying a player that can just score. Who knows, Derozen was just a scorer and has become a more well rounded player and Wiggin's upside should be higher, the only difference is that Derozen is the #1 option and can shoot as much as he wants, he doesn't have a Towns on the team.

It's just an interesting situation to be in and of course, if Wiggins were moved I'm sure you'd get a boatload of assets for him.

[AirP.]

They aren't going to let Wiggins just leave. Wiggins just turned 22 years, can create his own shot, and gets to the line. Otto Porter just signed a contract over $100 million...and you don't think the Wolves, who have a billionaire owner won't pay Wiggins? If that's the case this team is truly hopeless. Did you hear the way Taylor talked about Wiggins when he was brought up on Doogie podcast after the draft? There is no chance they won't pay him.

Leave and being traded for a boatload of assets are completely different. The thing to worry about is the salary cap. Towns and Butler will get the max, someone would play the max right now for Wiggins and hope he gets better. At some point you either have to have an owner willing to lose money or make sure you get the most out the cap every year. Thibs hasn't went crazy with money, even when he overpays(like Gibson) he did it on a short contract knowing he has 2 if not 3 max contracts coming up in 2 years he has to fit a cheap roster around.

It's just a very interesting situation for a non large market team to be in, I don't expect Minnesota to just be happy paying a large luxury tax to keep 3 max contracts and good role players together. That's a lot of money to pay when you have a team like Golden State still in their prime and willing to throw money out the window.

[HitmanCapone]

Can Wolves trade for Thad Young and his 15 mil contract with Aldrich? Indy look like one of the worst teams in the NBA and it could free up cap space for them next season. Never liked him as a starter but would be a very nice addition to the bench as a SF/PF.

Probably be smarter waiting for midseason to make another move, but just throwing things out there.

I wouldn't be looking to help out Indy at all after that whole Miles debacle, Maybe if they threw a 1st our way I'd change my mind

To me it sounded like we were the ones who reneged. Are you saying that Indy reneged?

If I had to pick one of the teams I'm guessing it would be the Pacers. Maybe I'm wrong but to me it seems like Indy thought they could squeeze the 1st out of us since they knew we needed someone and cap relief but we never budged. With our consistent desire to not include the first I just can't see how it could have been any different but like I said maybe I'm wrong either way I wouldn't deal with them unless we were clear winners in any deal.

[HitmanCapone]

NYK GETS: Dieng, Aldrich, OKC 1st
CLE GETS: Melo
MIN GETS: Kevin Love

Dieng is cost controlled, and would fit like a glove next to Porzingas.

(Tee hee! Tee hee!)

I'd be okay with this but I do think Gorgui is still going to improve but Love would address 2 needs for us & I think he's a great fit next to KAT.

[shrink]

Their is something to be said for continuity. If Wiggins shows reasonable improvement I think we will max him. I sure hope Butler and Teague reup and of Course KAT.

As good as I think Butler is(he carried a horrible roster to .500 last year) this franchise ceiling is Towns. He's the franchise player, he's going to be the incredible value at a max contract. All moves in the next couple of years should be putting the best team around Towns. You don't want to limit your team's ceiling by overpaying a player that can just score. Who knows, Derozen was just a scorer and has become a more well rounded player and Wiggin's upside should be higher, the only difference is that Derozen is the #1 option and can shoot as much as he wants, he doesn't have a Towns on the team.

I agree with you. Jimmy is great, and is somewhere in the conversation for he NBA's best 10-15th player

I heard a national commentators say that KAT could be the NBA's best player, in as soon as two years. Generational talent.

[karch34]

NYK GETS: Dieng, Aldrich, OKC 1st
CLE GETS: Melo
MIN GETS: Kevin Love

Dieng is cost controlled, and would fit like a glove next to Porzingas.

(Tee hee! Tee hee!)

Why would the Knicks do this?

To remove the melo-drama.

I don't think he's worth that much to the Knicks right now. They might even take cap space.

I do think the Knicks will wind up taking a lot less for Melo than people are expecting. I wouldn't be against having a team where we debate who's the 3rd and 4th option between Love and Wiggins.

[Biggsohnasty]

I consider AP Sports guy Jon Krawzynski (spelling lol) to be the most plugged in when it comes to Wolves stuff - when he says Thibs loves Wiggins, I believe him. He's going to be here for a long time.

On another note how stupid is it that teams are limited to offering a certain amount of '5-year' extensions? It's a roundabout way of punishing teams that draft and cultivate talent better than others. It's a joke to me. NBA players seem to be the most finicky about status and feelings and when you have to choose between two players who gets the 'designated 5-year max', you are bound to piss off the one that you don't choose. It's annoying.

[rugbyrugger23]

I consider AP Sports guy Jon Krawzynski (spelling lol) to be the most plugged in when it comes to Wolves stuff - when he says Thibs loves Wiggins, I believe him. He's going to be here for a long time.

On another note how stupid is it that teams are limited to offering a certain amount of '5-year' extensions? It's a roundabout way of punishing teams that draft and cultivate talent better than others. It's a joke to me. NBA players seem to be the most finicky about status and feelings and when you have to choose between two players who gets the 'designated 5-year max', you are bound to piss off the one that you don't choose. It's annoying.

Yes and no. A balancing act for sure for the NBA.

When you are an organization who drafts well and are holding 2+ players who deserve 5 years, your stance ("this sucks") is spot on. When you are the rest of the league who needs to hope a quality player wants to leave organization who drafts him ("so you're saying theres a chance" theory), the rule that EVEN 2 are allowed "sucks." And then your rebuttal of "well draft [your own deserving player(s)] better" has merit too. The circle continues.

Hence the balancing act.

[shrink]

One reason for limits on the lengths of deals, and the sizes for max, is to protect owners from themselves. These guys used to offer huge, long deals that would mess up their franchise for the better part of a decade, so they wanted rules to restrict themselves. And of course, when the longer, richer deals were available, every superstar demanded the most they could get.

[karch34]

Yeah. I think to protect owners from themselves is the biggest reason. How many more years is Arenas getting paid for?

[nba_addict]

This might make sense. Utah is not contending anytime soon and they have 1 year left on JJ. JJ when not a creator is an efficient 3pt shooter. Minny needs reliable and veteran 3pt shooter. Aldrich, Payne & Jones for Joe Johnson.

Keep the pick from Utah and use the two 1st next year (including own 1st) to find non lotto gems as future young bench. SignCJ Watson and consider signing Joe J for another year next year for the 2 year window.

Teague / Watson
Butler / Crawford
Wiggins / Joe Johnson
Gibson / Dieng / Bjelica
KAT / Dieng / Gibson

Looks like a good two years project then hopes the two first next year pans out.