Wolves | Pistons | Hornets

rugbyrugger23 · Post #1 » by **rugbyrugger23** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:43 pm

I have posted a version of this trade before...

Assumptions:
1. Really making assumption Thibs wants to move #6/7 for a non-rookie (he doesn't play rookies), and...
2. Some sentiment he wants to move Rubio for right price.
3. Pistons want to get out of tax and do a post-Drummond-restart.
4. Hornets are looking for guard help and scoring.

Pistons Trade: Drummond + S. Johnson + Jackson + Smith
Pistons Receive: Rubio + #6/7 + Kaminsky + Hill (NG contract) + Sessions
Pistons Why: Rubio gives SVG a win-now passing PG next to KCP and Harris. At #6/7 draft BPA, either a guard who can play in rotation or SFOF (Tatum or Isaac). At #12 draft PFOF. Pistons are out of the tax and get cap space moving forward.

Hornets Trade: MKG + Kaminsky + Sessions
Hornets Receive: Jackson + Johnson + Aldrich
Hornets Why: Jackson becomes bench scoring PG, but can get some minutes next to Walker. Johnson flyer as bench D to replace departed MKG.

Wolves Trade: Rubio + #6/7 + Aldrich + Hill
Wolves Receive: Drummond + Smith + MKG
Wolves Why: Yes, many will jump in and say Drummond and Towns are not a great duo...BUT Wolves need size and rebounding down low. If Thibs can coach up D, to both of his bigs, they can matchup well. With that said, Dieng becomes bench big (and crunch time big) and work him into rotation with Towns getting C minutes (about 60/40). Thibs leaves the draft without a rookie, gains defensive specialist, size and rebounding WITHOUT touching his core of Towns-LaVine-Wiggins. Smith who served well as starter in Detroit, would be bridge vet PG.
C: Drummond | Towns | Dieng
F: Towns | Dieng | Bjelica
F: MKG | Wiggins | Vet 3D
G: Wiggins | LaVine* | Dunn
G: Smith | Dunn (starts when ready) | Jones
*LaVine off the bench to start season. I think eventually he needs to start next to Wiggins, but that dilemma needs to be played out.

Merc_Porto · Post #2 » by **Merc_Porto** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:02 pm

You really want Ricky out of Minnesota so bad !!!

Midw35t · Post #3 » by **Midw35t** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:07 pm

rugbyrugger23 wrote:I have posted a version of this trade before...

Assumptions:
1. Really making assumption Thibs wants to move #6/7 for a non-rookie (he doesn't play rookies), and...
2. Some sentiment he wants to move Rubio for right price.
3. Pistons want to get out of tax and do a post-Drummond-restart.
4. Hornets are looking for guard help and scoring.

Pistons Trade: Drummond + S. Johnson + Jackson + Smith
Pistons Receive: Rubio + #6/7 + Kaminsky + Hill (NG contract) + Sessions
Pistons Why: Rubio gives SVG a win-now passing PG next to KCP and Harris. At #6/7 draft BPA, either a guard who can play in rotation or SFOF (Tatum or Isaac). At #12 draft PFOF. Pistons are out of the tax and get cap space moving forward.

Hornets Trade: MKG + Kaminsky + Sessions
Hornets Receive: Jackson + Johnson + Aldrich
Hornets Why: Jackson becomes bench scoring PG, but can get some minutes next to Walker. Johnson flyer as bench D to replace departed MKG.

Wolves Trade: Rubio + #6/7 + Aldrich + Hill
Wolves Receive: Drummond + Smith + MKG
Wolves Why: Yes, many will jump in and say Drummond and Towns are not a great duo...BUT Wolves need size and rebounding down low. If Thibs can coach up D, to both of his bigs, they can matchup well. With that said, Dieng becomes bench big (and crunch time big) and work him into rotation with Towns getting C minutes (about 60/40). Thibs leaves the draft without a rookie, gains defensive specialist, size and rebounding WITHOUT touching his core of Towns-LaVine-Wiggins. Smith who served well as starter in Detroit, would be bridge vet PG.
C: Drummond | Towns | Dieng
F: Towns | Dieng | Bjelica
F: MKG | Wiggins | Vet 3D
G: Wiggins | LaVine* | Dunn
G: Smith | Dunn (starts when ready) | Jones
*LaVine off the bench to start season. I think eventually he needs to start next to Wiggins, but that dilemma needs to be played out.

I would approve of that trade. Rubio + our pick might be enough for Drummond. Then we get Smith and MKG for Aldrich and Hill? I'd bet a lot of $ that Detroit would laugh.

rugbyrugger23 · Post #4 » by **rugbyrugger23** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:46 pm

Midw35t wrote:
rugbyrugger23 wrote:I have posted a version of this trade before...

Assumptions:
1. Really making assumption Thibs wants to move #6/7 for a non-rookie (he doesn't play rookies), and...
2. Some sentiment he wants to move Rubio for right price.
3. Pistons want to get out of tax and do a post-Drummond-restart.
4. Hornets are looking for guard help and scoring.

Pistons Trade: Drummond + S. Johnson + Jackson + Smith
Pistons Receive: Rubio + #6/7 + Kaminsky + Hill (NG contract) + Sessions
Pistons Why: Rubio gives SVG a win-now passing PG next to KCP and Harris. At #6/7 draft BPA, either a guard who can play in rotation or SFOF (Tatum or Isaac). At #12 draft PFOF. Pistons are out of the tax and get cap space moving forward.

Hornets Trade: MKG + Kaminsky + Sessions
Hornets Receive: Jackson + Johnson + Aldrich
Hornets Why: Jackson becomes bench scoring PG, but can get some minutes next to Walker. Johnson flyer as bench D to replace departed MKG.

Wolves Trade: Rubio + #6/7 + Aldrich + Hill
Wolves Receive: Drummond + Smith + MKG
Wolves Why: Yes, many will jump in and say Drummond and Towns are not a great duo...BUT Wolves need size and rebounding down low. If Thibs can coach up D, to both of his bigs, they can matchup well. With that said, Dieng becomes bench big (and crunch time big) and work him into rotation with Towns getting C minutes (about 60/40). Thibs leaves the draft without a rookie, gains defensive specialist, size and rebounding WITHOUT touching his core of Towns-LaVine-Wiggins. Smith who served well as starter in Detroit, would be bridge vet PG.
C: Drummond | Towns | Dieng
F: Towns | Dieng | Bjelica
F: MKG | Wiggins | Vet 3D
G: Wiggins | LaVine* | Dunn
G: Smith | Dunn (starts when ready) | Jones
*LaVine off the bench to start season. I think eventually he needs to start next to Wiggins, but that dilemma needs to be played out.

I would approve of that trade. Rubio + our pick might be enough for Drummond. Then we get Smith and MKG for Aldrich and Hill? I'd bet a lot of $ that Detroit would laugh.

I think Jackson out is considered a positive for Pistons. More so they save ton of tax dollars and gain cap (via Wolves).

And to me, Hornets need to try something new too with MKG--and he and Jackson swap is equal I guess. A Johnson-Kaminsky swap is relatively close to equal too.

Note30 · Post #5 » by **Note30** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:13 pm

Great, meanwhile we get a point guard who's worse than ricky, a center that is not worth his money and is horrifically bad at shooting so that we can play in a fashion thats easily beat today. I like MKG but he's not worth trading #6 and Ricky.

rugbyrugger23 · Post #6 » by **rugbyrugger23** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:20 am

Note30 wrote:Great, meanwhile we get a point guard who's worse than ricky, a center that is not worth his money and is horrifically bad at shooting so that we can play in a fashion thats easily beat today. I like MKG but he's not worth trading #6 and Ricky.

Every offseason Drummond contract will look better and better. BUT I can see the argument that he is not currently worth his contract. But...
1) to a degree, this is what makes him "gettable" at a price that doesn't equal a core player.
2) Drummond checks sooo many boxes Wolves need. Big-check. Rebounds ELITE-check. Young-check. His defense-check'ish. His defense isn't elite, but I can't imagine Thibs doing this deal if he isn't drooling at idea of doing what he did to Noah with an actual top level player in Drummond. And again, if Wolves want the unicorn that checks all boxes with no warts, be prepared to pay a core player.
3) As for his shooting, that does suck. But, as a fall back, Wolves have options at crunch time. Being Dieng, or Towns at center, amongst a committee at PF. With that said, his non free throw shooting could improve. I bet one day not long ago, if I said Brook Lopez or Marc Gasol would be stretch 5's you, and others, would call me crazy. Maybe the 23yo Drummond has it in him to be a better shooter/floor spacer.

ace625214 · Post #7 » by **ace625214** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:32 pm

Drummond is big and can rebound, yes, but he can't play PF at all on either end. That means KAT is now a PF for huge chunks of the game, and we're in the the same pickle we are now with a Dieng/Towns frontcourt. You don't go out and trade two of your best five assets in exchange for somebody that will either have to split time or necessitate the trade of your best player. It makes no sense.

There is a massive, massive difference between Lopez/Pau/Marc and Andre Drummond. All three of the guys who turned themselves into stretch-5s were always very skilled and hit shots from the mid-range, along with shooting free throws in the 75-85% range. Drummond has a hard time cracking half of that percentage from the line. Only 4.4% of his shots come from outside 10 feet. I would be comfortable putting money on him never becoming a stretch-5.

Biggsohnasty · Post #8 » by **Biggsohnasty** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:42 pm

I think Drummond is a perfect fit next to KAT. Need a big man that will defend the paint. Drummond isn't a great actual defender but he's young and I'm sick of seeing grown-men waltz in and demolish the Wolves every single game.

KAT can move to PF and defend more on the perimeter where his quickness plays more than his lack of strength inside.

Don't care about Drummond's lack of shooting because I think he'd kill it basically setting picks or hiding on the short corner and catching dumps for dunks or hitting the offensive glass. Him and KAT would murder people on the boards.

Don't love the trade altogether but I think people get too infatuated with finding shooting from that PF/C spot - I'd rather find shooting from my perimeter guys and get bigs that rebound.

Note30 · Post #9 » by **Note30** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:53 pm

Biggsohnasty wrote:I think Drummond is a perfect fit next to KAT. Need a big man that will defend the paint. Drummond isn't a great actual defender but he's young and I'm sick of seeing grown-men waltz in and demolish the Wolves every single game.

KAT can move to PF and defend more on the perimeter where his quickness plays more than his lack of strength inside.

Don't care about Drummond's lack of shooting because I think he'd kill it basically setting picks or hiding on the short corner and catching dumps for dunks or hitting the offensive glass. Him and KAT would murder people on the boards.

Don't love the trade altogether but I think people get too infatuated with finding shooting from that PF/C spot - I'd rather find shooting from my perimeter guys and get bigs that rebound.

Or get both?

Biggsohnasty · Post #10 » by **Biggsohnasty** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:19 pm

Well sure yeah so who is that?

Narf · Post #11 » by **Narf** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:11 am

Rubio is only 2 1/2 years older than Drummond. If there were a couple more years between them this would make more sense.

esm1885 · Post #12 » by **esm1885** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:21 am

Last year I was keen on trading our pick for Drummond after his monster season. He's not as hot now, and he can't defend well or contribute much on offense apart from lobs and garbage buckets. But trading either Rubio or our pick for him could work - if him and KAT can't play on the floor together, having one on the court at all times could work really well.

Mattya · Post #13 » by **Mattya** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:38 am

Drummond is not a good fit on this roster. Drummond doesn't solve the interior defense or the defense on the perimeter. He fits fine offensively, but if you are adding a player with that type of contract you hope to solves the bigger issues on the team. Drummond doesn't do that.

I'm a fan of MKG, I'm just not sure he can fit with this team. We need as many floor spacers as possible. We need to try to find a floor spacer with decent defense before we commit to trading for MKG.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #14 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:50 am

Id rather see Zeller on this squad than Drummond.

packforfreedom · Post #15 » by **packforfreedom** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:16 am

Pistons fans hate Drummond because he doesn't care and doesn't improve. Don't want.

PharmD · Post #16 » by **PharmD** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:11 am

Drummond might be the worst fit itl as a front court player with Towns. Can't shoot a lick so he kills your spacing and moves Towns out of the post (where he's best) and plays bad defense.

Killboard · Post #17 » by **Killboard** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:19 pm

So the pistons are trading Drummond away to get a 6th pick and Ricky? Isnt the whole point in trading for Ricky have a playmaker PG to feed Drummond? I really dont think the pistons like that.

AirP. · Post #18 » by **AirP.** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:37 pm

rugbyrugger23 wrote:1. Really making assumption Thibs wants to move #6/7 for a non-rookie (he doesn't play rookies), and...

He plays rookies when they actually are the best option. Just 3 seasons ago Mirotic was in the running for Rookie of the Year under Thibs. Not only that, but Thibs needed outside shooting badly that season and actually experimented with Mirotic at SF since there were no minutes at PF or C(until someone got hurt). Chicago had Gasol, Noah and Gibson playing those positions in front of him.

It's interesting how Thibs gets a bad rap when all he does is simple, looks at his roster, sees what makes the most sense for a rotation(basically for the whole season) and goes with that and instead of moving players around if they're doing bad, he actually puts in work to try to figure out how to fix the problem.

Look at this year, LaVine went down and yet Minnesota had 2 of only 9 lineups that played 500 or more minutes together this year in the NBA. Very rarely will you see a bad team that has this type of consistence although the 76ers did a couple years ago while tanking.

http://stats.nba.com/lineups/traditional/#!?CF=MIN*GE*500&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=1

rugbyrugger23 · Post #19 » by **rugbyrugger23** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:11 pm

AirP. wrote:
rugbyrugger23 wrote:1. Really making assumption Thibs wants to move #6/7 for a non-rookie (he doesn't play rookies), and...

He plays rookies when they actually are the best option. Just 3 seasons ago Mirotic was in the running for Rookie of the Year under Thibs. Not only that, but Thibs needed outside shooting badly that season and actually experimented with Mirotic at SF since there were no minutes at PF or C(until someone got hurt). Chicago had Gasol, Noah and Gibson playing those positions in front of him.

It's interesting how Thibs gets a bad rap when all he does is simple, looks at his roster, sees what makes the most sense for a rotation(basically for the whole season) and goes with that and instead of moving players around if they're doing bad, he actually puts in work to try to figure out how to fix the problem.

Look at this year, LaVine went down and yet Minnesota had 2 of only 9 lineups that played 500 or more minutes together this year in the NBA. Very rarely will you see a bad team that has this type of consistence although the 76ers did a couple years ago while tanking.

http://stats.nba.com/lineups/traditional/#!?CF=MIN*GE*500&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=1

Except using Mirotic as your reasoning is flawed. He wasn't a typical rookie. He had, what, like 5 seasons as a pro basketball player for Real Madrid, and turned 23yo during his rookie season.

Dunn a 22/23yo rookie hand drafted by Thibs to be his "guy" to take over for Rubio--as rookie still couldn't break through the Thibs rookie wall. (Yes, Rubio's play had just as much to do with that.) Still a sound example. Imagine a 20yo, 1 and done rookie trying to crack Thibs lineup for meaningful minutes that contribute to Wolves playoff push.

ace625214 · Post #20 » by **ace625214** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:19 pm

Thibs plays whoever he thinks gives him the best chance to win. That's why when teams don't have much depth, he runs his starters into the ground. He doesn't trade competitiveness for rest or development. The problem is that very, very few one-and-done freshman are going to come in and be impact players. If they can't make a positive impact, they will sit on the bench and learn in practice.