TRADE: No. 7, LaVine, Dunn for Butler, 16

[Rashodamus]

Lavine's On/Off numbers are terrible! He's 6th man of the year material. Quite frankly, I think that's been pretty obvious for years. He will never be a good enough defender to move the needle. If the wolves had Lavine as 6th man right now, and he was on a cheaper contract, I'd be happy.
That being said, RoCo does project to be a needle mover for us. He's an elite wing defender- an absolute must have in the playoffs. He'll fit seemlessly into the offense, something Lavine wouldn't do unless he was 6th man. Plus RoCo is on a very reasonable contract for years to come.

The only way the wolves lost this trade is if Markannen blows up to multi time all star.

Hes literally the 4th leading scorer in the NBA with a .577 TS% and you are proudly proclaiming hes a 6th man.

So the Bulls should trade us Lavine for Roco, cuz Lavine is a glorified 6th man and Roco is a needle mover...thats your stance?

You arent worth talking to, thats my stance.

[Worm Guts]

I know what my hope/vision was for the Butler trade. I was amazed and worried at how bad our core was defensively. My hope was that Butler would help improve Towns and Wiggins defensively either by example or by allowing them to play in more important where how they played defensively mattered.
I knew it was possible it wouldn't work, but I thought it was a real possibility our core wasn't as good as we had hoped and wasn't going anywhere. It's possible we were destined to fail either way. Obviously the path we chose was a trainwreck, although I don't that Jimmy Butler and KAT hating each other was something that was predictable.

[Grubie024]

Lavine's On/Off numbers are terrible! He's 6th man of the year material. Quite frankly, I think that's been pretty obvious for years. He will never be a good enough defender to move the needle. If the wolves had Lavine as 6th man right now, and he was on a cheaper contract, I'd be happy.
That being said, RoCo does project to be a needle mover for us. He's an elite wing defender- an absolute must have in the playoffs. He'll fit seemlessly into the offense, something Lavine wouldn't do unless he was 6th man. Plus RoCo is on a very reasonable contract for years to come.

The only way the wolves lost this trade is if Markannen blows up to multi time all star.

Hes literally the 4th leading scorer in the NBA with a .577 TS% and you are proudly proclaiming hes a 6th man.

So the Bulls should trade us Lavine for Roco, cuz Lavine is a glorified 6th man and Roco is a needle mover...thats your stance?

You arent worth talking to, thats my stance.

Oh wow look at that! Lavine has a -8.6 net rating! Bulls 4-9 record! This guy is a superstar!
Dude is super entertaining and a flamethrower, yet.... something is missing. Defense, all around game and results in the form of wins.

[Rashodamus]

I know what my hope/vision was for the Butler trade. I was amazed and worried at how bad our core was defensively. My hope was that Butler would help improve Towns and Wiggins defensively either by example or by allowing them to play in more important where how they played defensively mattered.
I knew it was possible it wouldn't work, but I thought it was a real possibility our core wasn't as good as we had hoped and wasn't going anywhere. It's possible we were destined to fail either way. Obviously the path we chose was a trainwreck, although I don't that Jimmy Butler and KAT hating each other was something that was predictable.

I never complained about the mentality of consolidating assets, I just think we traded the wrong assets at the wrong time for the wrong player and then went about building out the rest of the roster around that mistake.

Maybe Towns and Butler hating each other wasnt predictable, but the win now moves like Gibson/Teague that it would lead too 100% were IMO. So were any number of things, like Butler missing games and the very real possibility he would walk in FA.

[Rashodamus]

Hes literally the 4th leading scorer in the NBA with a .577 TS% and you are proudly proclaiming hes a 6th man.

So the Bulls should trade us Lavine for Roco, cuz Lavine is a glorified 6th man and Roco is a needle mover...thats your stance?

You arent worth talking to, thats my stance.

Oh wow look at that! Lavine has a -8.6 net rating! Bulls 4-9 record! This guy is a superstar!
Dude is super entertaining and a flamethrower, yet.... something is missing. Defense, all around game and results in the form of wins.

Heres your net rating leaders:

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1

You can find your boy Jimmy Butler on the list right by Zach at -8.1 with his 4-9 record

You are terrible at this, and thats without me even digging into the broken logic you are using trying to spit team dependent stats like net rating.

Is there like an advanced board? I feel like im on the remedial forum, I know some of you guys are better than this.

[alabamawolf]

I don’t think the Wolves would have been any better keeping Lavine and Lauri. The Wolves would have had an incredible offense but both are negatives on the defensive side of the ball which is the issue with this team. I still don’t blame Thibs for taking the gamble but it unfortunately backfired

Do you have the ability to think abstractly and see other avenues the team could have improved using those assets? Or do you HAVE to look at it as if we are "stuck" with those players and can never make another move?

I woulda been on the phone sending Lauri and our lotto pick to grab Doncic, or waiting for a better fitting star to become available to consolidate with. But I am about tired of the simplistic thinking that NOT trading for Butler means we literally just build around Lavine/Lauri...as if no other moves can ever be made FFS. None of you ever calculate in the salary position we are in due to this trade, and no I dont mean Butlers salary, I mean the series of moves that followed and made us a mediocre team pushing the lux threshold. See thats all part of the Butler deal too, the rubio trade, Gibson, Crawford (who saved us from ourselves), Teague, these moves are all connected and they were the result of the trash Butler deal.

do you have the ability to communicate with others without being pretentious? The moves after Butler are separate moves and cant be graded with the trade

[BadWolf]

Hes literally the 4th leading scorer in the NBA with a .577 TS% and you are proudly proclaiming hes a 6th man.

So the Bulls should trade us Lavine for Roco, cuz Lavine is a glorified 6th man and Roco is a needle mover...thats your stance?

You arent worth talking to, thats my stance.

Oh wow look at that! Lavine has a -8.6 net rating! Bulls 4-9 record! This guy is a superstar!
Dude is super entertaining and a flamethrower, yet.... something is missing. Defense, all around game and results in the form of wins.

Heres your net rating leaders:

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1

You can find your boy Jimmy Butler on the list right by Zach at -8.1 with his 4-9 record

You are terrible at this, and thats without me even digging into the broken logic you are using trying to spit team dependent stats like net rating.

Is there like an advanced board? I feel like im on the remedial forum, I know some of you guys are better than this.

Bulls are probably overachieving. They're starting Payne {Arci now), Holiday, Parker and a rookie center (who's great). Markkanen, Portis, Dunn, Valentine, that's 3 starters and 6th man, or even 4 starters, are all out with injuries.
Butler was playing with.. Well you know....

[Grubie024]

Hes literally the 4th leading scorer in the NBA with a .577 TS% and you are proudly proclaiming hes a 6th man.

So the Bulls should trade us Lavine for Roco, cuz Lavine is a glorified 6th man and Roco is a needle mover...thats your stance?

You arent worth talking to, thats my stance.

Oh wow look at that! Lavine has a -8.6 net rating! Bulls 4-9 record! This guy is a superstar!
Dude is super entertaining and a flamethrower, yet.... something is missing. Defense, all around game and results in the form of wins.

Heres your net rating leaders:

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1

You can find your boy Jimmy Butler on the list right by Zach at -8.1 with his 4-9 record

You are terrible at this, and thats without me even digging into the broken logic you are using trying to spit team dependent stats like net rating.

Is there like an advanced board? I feel like im on the remedial forum, I know some of you guys are better than this.

You are aware that real life is different than NBA 2k right?

[Rashodamus]

do you have the ability to communicate with others without being pretentious? The moves after Butler are separate moves and cant be graded with the trade

Do they have the ability to form coherent arguments and back them with logic?

You are wrong. They are a direct result of the trade, it was all one big win now move exactly how I said it would play out and they are absolutely linked.

Just like you can add the 2018 lotto pick we sent to Atlanta as a cost of the deal.

No vision.

[Rashodamus]

Oh wow look at that! Lavine has a -8.6 net rating! Bulls 4-9 record! This guy is a superstar!
Dude is super entertaining and a flamethrower, yet.... something is missing. Defense, all around game and results in the form of wins.

Heres your net rating leaders:

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1

You can find your boy Jimmy Butler on the list right by Zach at -8.1 with his 4-9 record

You are terrible at this, and thats without me even digging into the broken logic you are using trying to spit team dependent stats like net rating.

Is there like an advanced board? I feel like im on the remedial forum, I know some of you guys are better than this.

You are aware that real life is different than NBA 2k right?

So again, you have nothing.

You hinge your argument on some team stat (net +/-) and then when I shove it in your face then its more complex than that? I cant wait for more of your logic. Hopefully the fella from Alabama can tell me the proper way to handle people who ignore logic, reason, evidence, and flat out fact in favor of the vaunted "this isnt NBA 2K!" argument.

Again, wheres the advanced board?

[thinktank]

I’ll take Covington and his contract over Lavine all day

No doubt.

[Killboard]

If thibs would have picked other player than Patton like Anunoby we could have done a terrific trade since Patton was traded for salary fill purposes.

Saric+Covington+Anunoby for Lavine, Dunn and Markannen would have been lopsided for the wolves. This way is kind a wash but solid outcome if Saric is used well.

[Neeva]

The patton pick was a serious blunder just like the dieng extension ugh

[Rashodamus]

I’ll take Covington and his contract over Lavine all day

No doubt.

This will be fun to look back at just like the Butler trade was.

Well...I mean...for me...not you guys.

[alabamawolf]

I’ll take Covington and his contract over Lavine all day

No doubt.

This will be fun to look back at just like the Butler trade was.

Well...I mean...for me...not you guys.

It's a matter of fit and contract. Lavine's best skill is scoring and that doesnt fit next to Wiggins and Towns. This core needs defense and Lavine is one of the worst in the league at that.

[Hoops23]

So its now Lavine, Dunn and #7 for Saric, Bayless, Covington and a future 2nd pick.

Congrats to both teams, it was a fair trade.

[Indomitable]

So its now Lavine, Dunn and #7 for Saric, Bayless, Covington and a future 2nd pick.

Congrats to both teams, it was a fair trade.

I would not want your part.

[KGdaBom]

Lavine's On/Off numbers are terrible! He's 6th man of the year material. Quite frankly, I think that's been pretty obvious for years. He will never be a good enough defender to move the needle. If the wolves had Lavine as 6th man right now, and he was on a cheaper contract, I'd be happy.
That being said, RoCo does project to be a needle mover for us. He's an elite wing defender- an absolute must have in the playoffs. He'll fit seemlessly into the offense, something Lavine wouldn't do unless he was 6th man. Plus RoCo is on a very reasonable contract for years to come.

The only way the wolves lost this trade is if Markannen blows up to multi time all star.

Hes literally the 4th leading scorer in the NBA with a .577 TS% and you are proudly proclaiming hes a 6th man.

So the Bulls should trade us Lavine for Roco, cuz Lavine is a glorified 6th man and Roco is a needle mover...thats your stance?

You arent worth talking to, thats my stance.

Oh wow look at that! Lavine has a -8.6 net rating! Bulls 4-9 record! This guy is a superstar!
Dude is super entertaining and a flamethrower, yet.... something is missing. Defense, all around game and results in the form of wins.

Make that Bulls 4-11 now.

[KGdaBom]

Heres your net rating leaders:

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1

You can find your boy Jimmy Butler on the list right by Zach at -8.1 with his 4-9 record

You are terrible at this, and thats without me even digging into the broken logic you are using trying to spit team dependent stats like net rating.

Is there like an advanced board? I feel like im on the remedial forum, I know some of you guys are better than this.

You are aware that real life is different than NBA 2k right?

So again, you have nothing.

You hinge your argument on some team stat (net +/-) and then when I shove it in your face then its more complex than that? I cant wait for more of your logic. Hopefully the fella from Alabama can tell me the proper way to handle people who ignore logic, reason, evidence, and flat out fact in favor of the vaunted "this isnt NBA 2K!" argument.

Again, wheres the advanced board?

You continue to demonstrate that you think you are a genius and anybody who thinks different than you is an idiot. You claim others can't think abstract, but you can't get off of LaVine scoring a lot when others point out record +/- net rating etc...
I'm not even saying you are wrong. I'm just saying there are other legit ways of looking at this that are beyond your grasp. Who is going to help a team win more games is the only question that matters comparing LaVine to RoCo. I along with many believe it's RoCo. I am highly confident that what we have seen out of LaVine so far this year is a hot streak and he will regress to the mean. He will probably end the season as a 22 PPG scorer which is excellent scoring, but his team will continue to lose and his efficiency will continue to diminish.

[sky4it]

No doubt.

This will be fun to look back at just like the Butler trade was.

Well...I mean...for me...not you guys.

It's a matter of fit and contract. Lavine's best skill is scoring and that doesnt fit next to Wiggins and Towns. This core needs defense and Lavine is one of the worst in the league at that.

Wether or not we got hosed in the trade depends on someones view of Lavine. I know a lot of people like him. I dont. The really agravating stuff to me is the boneheaded plays, stepping out of bounds stuff like that.

Wiggins looked like old wigg last game. I think hes better suited at the shooting guard spot. Butler is a slashing type player, so is Wigg. When the trade was made we knew this might be a problem.

so how do you guys think wigg will fit in Philly? Simmons cant shoot, this might cause problems.