TRADE: Rubio to Utah for '18 OKC 1st

[Merc_Porto]

We will never know if the trade was good or not because the improvement we make will mostly be because of Butler.

This !!!

[KGdaBom]

You're sounding like one of those guys who think shooting is the only skill that matters. Simply not true. Rubio playing on a very losing team for six years had a plus of something like 375. In other words when he was in the game we outscored the opposition. Rubio is a good player. Simple as that. Teague is s good player also. We will never know if the trade was good or not because the improvement we make will mostly be because of Butler.

Shooting has become way more important the last few years, guys who can't shoot don't stay on the floor anymore in the playoffs. Teague may be a lesser defender, lesser passer, but neither one of those is close to how much better Teague is as a scorer or shooter. It's just a different game now that there are so many players who can hit 3pt shots. Rubio without the ball is a huge negative to his team.

Never said Rubio wasn't a good basketball player but that doesn't change the fact that there's a ceiling with a PG who can't shoot the ball, he'll get exposed in the playoffs, luckily for him he'll have Gobert who can't create for himself and will hang around the basket for a great Rubio pass and score.

Once again we outscored our opponents while Rubio was in the game. You keep ignoring that. Shooting is one part of basketball.

[Krapinsky]

But there is one stat the Wolves might not have been aware of when they sent Rubio packing. He holds a special distinction for a woebegone franchise.

Consider that in the 10 seasons after Minnesota traded away Kevin Garnett in 2007, 101 different players appeared in a regular-season game for the team. Of those, 62 logged at least 500 minutes. Well, the Wolves outscored their foes with just two of them on the floor:

* Rubio, who was plus-345 in 11,216 minutes.

* Garnett, who was plus-72 in 654 minutes in a second stint (2015-2016) in Minnesota.

Everybody else – every other significant piece of each failed rebuilding effort – was in the red. From early presumed saviors such as Al Jefferson (minus-1,173), Jonny Flynn (minus-805) and Kevin Love (minus-380), to more recent poorly-fit pieces such as Andrew Wiggins (minus-634) and Zach LaVine (minus-951).

http://www.nba.com/writer/archive/steve-aschburner

[KGdaBom]

Rubio had 3 20+ scorers and the team couldn't even get to .500 yet the team yet people are upset that Rubio is no longer on the team.

I think that's a pretty misleading statement.

Ok... Rubio couldn't help lead the team to .500 with a guy putting up nearly 26 and 13, another scoring 19 a night and a center putting up nearly 18 and 9. Is that better? 6 seasons and this team has barely sniffed .500 with him as the lead PG. Yes we can see all the assists he gets but something that can't be counted, how many points did he cost the team by not being able to space the floor with his lack of 3pt shooting, how many times did his teammates know they really can't pass to him near the end of a shot clock because he can't score? He has huge limitations in the current era of the NBA.

You really need to stop. Every player on the team scored better with Rubio in the game. He didn't cost us any points at all. Not one.

[AirP.]

You're sounding like one of those guys who think shooting is the only skill that matters. Simply not true. Rubio playing on a very losing team for six years had a plus of something like 375. In other words when he was in the game we outscored the opposition. Rubio is a good player. Simple as that. Teague is s good player also. We will never know if the trade was good or not because the improvement we make will mostly be because of Butler.

Shooting has become way more important the last few years, guys who can't shoot don't stay on the floor anymore in the playoffs. Teague may be a lesser defender, lesser passer, but neither one of those is close to how much better Teague is as a scorer or shooter. It's just a different game now that there are so many players who can hit 3pt shots. Rubio without the ball is a huge negative to his team.

Never said Rubio wasn't a good basketball player but that doesn't change the fact that there's a ceiling with a PG who can't shoot the ball, he'll get exposed in the playoffs, luckily for him he'll have Gobert who can't create for himself and will hang around the basket for a great Rubio pass and score.

Once again we outscored our opponents while Rubio was in the game. You keep ignoring that. Shooting is one part of basketball.

Once again.... I've said he's a good player, just lacking in probably the most important skill in the CURRENT NBA. You seem to keep missing this. Even Rondo has adapted and worked on his outside shot to be ok when left open.

[Foye]

Shooting has become way more important the last few years, guys who can't shoot don't stay on the floor anymore in the playoffs. Teague may be a lesser defender, lesser passer, but neither one of those is close to how much better Teague is as a scorer or shooter. It's just a different game now that there are so many players who can hit 3pt shots. Rubio without the ball is a huge negative to his team.

Never said Rubio wasn't a good basketball player but that doesn't change the fact that there's a ceiling with a PG who can't shoot the ball, he'll get exposed in the playoffs, luckily for him he'll have Gobert who can't create for himself and will hang around the basket for a great Rubio pass and score.

Once again we outscored our opponents while Rubio was in the game. You keep ignoring that. Shooting is one part of basketball.

Once again.... I've said he's a good player, just lacking in probably the most important skill in the CURRENT NBA. You seem to keep missing this. Even Rondo has adapted and worked on his outside shot to be ok when left open.

Honestly, the biggest knock on Rubio's game is that he is not a good finisher around the rim.
I couldn't care less about the 3pt part.

[KGdaBom]

Shooting has become way more important the last few years, guys who can't shoot don't stay on the floor anymore in the playoffs. Teague may be a lesser defender, lesser passer, but neither one of those is close to how much better Teague is as a scorer or shooter. It's just a different game now that there are so many players who can hit 3pt shots. Rubio without the ball is a huge negative to his team.

Never said Rubio wasn't a good basketball player but that doesn't change the fact that there's a ceiling with a PG who can't shoot the ball, he'll get exposed in the playoffs, luckily for him he'll have Gobert who can't create for himself and will hang around the basket for a great Rubio pass and score.

Once again we outscored our opponents while Rubio was in the game. You keep ignoring that. Shooting is one part of basketball.

Once again.... I've said he's a good player, just lacking in probably the most important skill in the CURRENT NBA. You seem to keep missing this. Even Rondo has adapted and worked on his outside shot to be ok when left open.

It still is irrelevant. I did the math on what his shooting percent cost us versus average. About Two points a game. I did the math on what he did better than average gained us. About 10 points a game. Hopefully Teague does even better but if you think Rubio hurt us it is a flat out fact you are wrong.

[AirP.]

It still is irrelevant. I did the math on what his shooting percent cost us versus average. About Two points a game. I did the math on what he did better than average gained us. About 10 points a game. Hopefully Teague does even better but if you think Rubio hurt us it is a flat out fact you are wrong.

Huh and teams weren't beating down the Timberwolves door when all it took was a 1st to get him... weird. You must be right, the whole NBA needs to get with analytics to see this.

[AirP.]

Once again we outscored our opponents while Rubio was in the game. You keep ignoring that. Shooting is one part of basketball.

Once again.... I've said he's a good player, just lacking in probably the most important skill in the CURRENT NBA. You seem to keep missing this. Even Rondo has adapted and worked on his outside shot to be ok when left open.

Honestly, the biggest knock on Rubio's game is that he is not a good finisher around the rim.
I couldn't care less about the 3pt part.

It's a huge problem once you get into the playoffs. Teams will dare him to score or just shoot from the outside. The regular season is different then the playoffs. Good players can become nearly unplayable the further you go into the playoffs, Kevin Love is a guy who had a hard time staying on the court with Cleveland for a few years. Luckily his defense has gotten somewhat better.

[Foye]

Once again.... I've said he's a good player, just lacking in probably the most important skill in the CURRENT NBA. You seem to keep missing this. Even Rondo has adapted and worked on his outside shot to be ok when left open.

Honestly, the biggest knock on Rubio's game is that he is not a good finisher around the rim.
I couldn't care less about the 3pt part.

It's a huge problem once you get into the playoffs. Teams will dare him to score or just shoot from the outside. The regular season is different then the playoffs. Good players can become nearly unplayable the further you go into the playoffs, Kevin Love is a guy who had a hard time staying on the court with Cleveland for a few years. Luckily his defense has gotten somewhat better.

Loves 3pt shooting ass didnt lead us anywhere either. Is he a bad player now?

[shrink]

Rubio had 3 20+ scorers and the team couldn't even get to .500 yet the team yet people are upset that Rubio is no longer on the team.

I think that's a pretty misleading statement.

Ok... Rubio couldn't help lead the team to .500 with a guy putting up nearly 26 and 13, another scoring 19 a night and a center putting up nearly 18 and 9. Is that better? 6 seasons and this team has barely sniffed .500 with him as the lead PG. Yes we can see all the assists he gets but something that can't be counted, how many points did he cost the team by not being able to space the floor with his lack of 3pt shooting, how many times did his teammates know they really can't pass to him near the end of a shot clock because he can't score? He has huge limitations in the current era of the NBA.

This is just blatant scapegoating. You see the effect (not making .500 record), and simply choosing your favorite cause ("it's rubio's shooting!")

Do you think that your 20 PPG scorers' defense might have had an effect? How about the team being so young? How about the worst bench in the NBA? The team's inability to hold big leads? The team's inability to score in crunch time?

No! Forget all of that! It's Rubio, huh?

[KGdaBom]

It still is irrelevant. I did the math on what his shooting percent cost us versus average. About Two points a game. I did the math on what he did better than average gained us. About 10 points a game. Hopefully Teague does even better but if you think Rubio hurt us it is a flat out fact you are wrong.

Huh and teams weren't beating down the Timberwolves door when all it took was a 1st to get him... weird. You must be right, the whole NBA needs to get with analytics to see this.

AirP all I can say is Blah blah blah blah blah. You are like a broken record. We all get that Rubio is a sub par shooter. One aspect of the game. A lot of baseball Execs held out against moneyball too. ALL the FACTS prove Rubio to be a good player. Hopefully Teague who is a good player also plays very well for us and we win the title.

[AirP.]

This is just blatant scapegoating. You see the effect (not making .500 record), and simply choosing your favorite cause ("it's rubio's shooting!")

Do you think that your 20 PPG scorers' defense might have had an effect? How about the team being so young? How about the worst bench in the NBA? The team's inability to hold big leads? The team's inability to score in crunch time?

No! Forget all of that! It's Rubio, huh?

Um no... I also see what Minnesota got for him even though he was on the block for nearly a year. All it took was a 1st round pick and an expiring contract, exactly why Rose for Rubio was a thing last year but it didn't happen because they refused to add a 1st round pick.

Why is it that it's either Rubio is the greatest or he's trash? Why can't he be a solid NBA PG that will limit a team's ceiling because he is lacking greatly with an outside shot and ability to score? Yes, I am putting more things into it because for some reason people refuse to acknowledge his shortcomings and how that will hurt a team that wants to win playoff games.

[AirP.]

It still is irrelevant. I did the math on what his shooting percent cost us versus average. About Two points a game. I did the math on what he did better than average gained us. About 10 points a game. Hopefully Teague does even better but if you think Rubio hurt us it is a flat out fact you are wrong.

Huh and teams weren't beating down the Timberwolves door when all it took was a 1st to get him... weird. You must be right, the whole NBA needs to get with analytics to see this.

AirP all I can say is Blah blah blah blah blah. You are like a broken record. We all get that Rubio is a sub par shooter. One aspect of the game. A lot of baseball Execs held out against moneyball too. ALL the FACTS prove Rubio to be a good player. Hopefully Teague who is a good player also plays very well for us and we win the title.

Have I once said he's not a good player? NO! But for some reason if he's not praised as a top player I must absolutely think he's trash. I have said he has shortcomings and shooting at the guard position who should be on the court 30-35 minutes a night really will limit a team in the playoffs, it gives that team a lower ceiling.

[KGdaBom]

Huh and teams weren't beating down the Timberwolves door when all it took was a 1st to get him... weird. You must be right, the whole NBA needs to get with analytics to see this.

AirP all I can say is Blah blah blah blah blah. You are like a broken record. We all get that Rubio is a sub par shooter. One aspect of the game. A lot of baseball Execs held out against moneyball too. ALL the FACTS prove Rubio to be a good player. Hopefully Teague who is a good player also plays very well for us and we win the title.

Have I once said he's not a good player? NO! But for some reason if he's not praised as a top player I must absolutely think he's trash. I have said he has shortcomings and shooting at the guard position who should be on the court 30-35 minutes a night really will limit a team in the playoffs, it gives that team a lower ceiling.

Did anybody ever say he didn't have shortcomings. Everybody has acknowledged his FG% is poor. What part about outscoring the opponent while Ricky is in the game don't you get? It doesn't matter now. He is gone. Those of us who appreciate his game will be watching some Utah Jazz this season.

[minimus]

Rubio had 3 20+ scorers and the team couldn't even get to .500 yet the team yet people are upset that Rubio is no longer on the team.

I think that's a pretty misleading statement.

Ok... Rubio couldn't help lead the team to .500 with a guy putting up nearly 26 and 13, another scoring 19 a night and a center putting up nearly 18 and 9. Is that better? 6 seasons and this team has barely sniffed .500 with him as the lead PG. Yes we can see all the assists he gets but something that can't be counted, how many points did he cost the team by not being able to space the floor with his lack of 3pt shooting, how many times did his teammates know they really can't pass to him near the end of a shot clock because he can't score? He has huge limitations in the current era of the NBA.

Do you understand that the context is more important than stats? Why last season was the season when NBA players set so many statistical records? Triple double of Westbrook, KAT monstrous numbers and new MIN records?

[Takingbaconback]

Rubio is a fantastic passer who puts the ball in perfect position, but there's context to that. He is somebody who isn't a willing or good scorer that has the ball in his hands at least half the time on the shot clock. He is somebody who forces the four guys around him to expend a lot of energy and concentration on the offensive end.

I expect his absence to allow KAT and Wiggins to focus on defense first whereas with Rubio, you could see they were carrying the offense every single night. Same with Jimmy Butler, he doesn't have to do so much on offense, and he can return to a defense first mentality. This is going to be a swarming, athletic defensive first team that is going to press hard in transition. Teague with the ball, Butler to his left, Wiggins to his right, and KAT trailing. Good luck guarding that.

[shrink]

This is just blatant scapegoating. You see the effect (not making .500 record), and simply choosing your favorite cause ("it's rubio's shooting!")

Do you think that your 20 PPG scorers' defense might have had an effect? How about the team being so young? How about the worst bench in the NBA? The team's inability to hold big leads? The team's inability to score in crunch time?

No! Forget all of that! It's Rubio, huh?

Um no... I also see what Minnesota got for him even though he was on the block for nearly a year. All it took was a 1st round pick and an expiring contract, exactly why Rose for Rubio was a thing last year but it didn't happen because they refused to add a 1st round pick.

Why is it that it's either Rubio is the greatest or he's trash? Why can't he be a solid NBA PG that will limit a team's ceiling because he is lacking greatly with an outside shot and ability to score? Yes, I am putting more things into it because for some reason people refuse to acknowledge his shortcomings and how that will hurt a team that wants to win playoff games.

Excuse me, you weren't talking about trade value, or whether he was a good player. You were specifically pinning the losses on Rubio. These are your words:

Rubio had 3 20+ scorers and the team couldn't even get to .500 yet the team yet people are upset that Rubio is no longer on the team.

Ok... Rubio couldn't help lead the team to .500 with a guy putting up nearly 26 and 13, another scoring 19 a night and a center putting up nearly 18 and 9. Is that better? 6 seasons and this team has barely sniffed .500 with him as the lead PG. Yes we can see all the assists he gets but something that can't be counted, how many points did he cost the team by not being able to space the floor with his lack of 3pt shooting, how many times did his teammates know they really can't pass to him near the end of a shot clock because he can't score? He has huge limitations in the current era of the NBA.

This is 100% scape-goating. You see the effect (not making .500 record), and simply choosing your favorite cause ("it's rubio's shooting!"). You say nothing about any other factors that caused these losses, and put no blame on anyone else in the words you chose.

[walk with me]

This is just blatant scapegoating. You see the effect (not making .500 record), and simply choosing your favorite cause ("it's rubio's shooting!")

Do you think that your 20 PPG scorers' defense might have had an effect? How about the team being so young? How about the worst bench in the NBA? The team's inability to hold big leads? The team's inability to score in crunch time?

No! Forget all of that! It's Rubio, huh?

Um no... I also see what Minnesota got for him even though he was on the block for nearly a year. All it took was a 1st round pick and an expiring contract, exactly why Rose for Rubio was a thing last year but it didn't happen because they refused to add a 1st round pick.

Why is it that it's either Rubio is the greatest or he's trash? Why can't he be a solid NBA PG that will limit a team's ceiling because he is lacking greatly with an outside shot and ability to score? Yes, I am putting more things into it because for some reason people refuse to acknowledge his shortcomings and how that will hurt a team that wants to win playoff games.

+10000

[Zeitgeister]

It still is irrelevant. I did the math on what his shooting percent cost us versus average. About Two points a game. I did the math on what he did better than average gained us. About 10 points a game. Hopefully Teague does even better but if you think Rubio hurt us it is a flat out fact you are wrong.

Huh and teams weren't beating down the Timberwolves door when all it took was a 1st to get him... weird. You must be right, the whole NBA needs to get with analytics to see this.

AirP all I can say is Blah blah blah blah blah. You are like a broken record. We all get that Rubio is a sub par shooter. One aspect of the game. A lot of baseball Execs held out against moneyball too. ALL the FACTS prove Rubio to be a good player. Hopefully Teague who is a good player also plays very well for us and we win the title.

We'll see, he should have Utah rolling this season if that's the case. They may have lost Hayward but Gobert is their best player and they still have a lot of talent. Part of being a good player is how well you fit on good teams, portability. To me, Rubio is generally a poor fit with any high usage/playmaking wing because he's such a liability off the ball and that's where he'll spend a good deal of time with any good high usage/playmaking wing.