The Taj Gibson Thread

[KGdaBom]

IMO this is great. Maybe a tad pricey, but overall a great deal.

Taj shoots quite well from mid-range and as other said, Teague is a huge upgrade over Rubio in terms of catch and shoot.
Taj is still a strong defender and plays with a ton of heart and energy which will (along with Butler) become infectious.
Taj will be an expiring deal in year 2.
MIlsap would have cost double and I don't see him as a huge upgrade over Taj in shooting (shot 30% last 2 years from 3).
Taj and Butler are extension of Thibs on the court which will make the defense significantly better.
As far as I see it, we are set to win now and setup to win in the future by maximizing the development of Towns and Wiggins.

I believe all of these moves are really about making Towns and Wiggins better.

What I have heard is that Gibson is below 40% on everything outside of 3 feet and now I'm hearing he is a solid mid range shooter. Which is the truth?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gibsota01.html

Gibson hasn't been very good in the mid-range percentage-wise. The past year, 25% of his shots were from 10 feet to before the 3 point line and from 10-16 ft he only shot 37% and from 16 ft to before the 3 point line he shot 33%... His numbers is past years are nothing to get excited about.... Dieng is much better in this regard.

That's what I thought.

[Takingbaconback]

Meh shooting issue is overblown. Wiggins should get better from him going 30% to 35% last year from 3, KAT obviously is going to get better. Butler and Teague put up around 36 and 37% from deep and that was with a lot less talent than Wolves got now. Obviously it would have been great to add a premier shooter, but looking at this deal, FO thought the biggest issue was rebounding and Gibson next to KAT with Butler also should help tons.

[KGdaBom]

Meh shooting issue is overblown. Wiggins should get better from him going 30% to 35% last year from 3, KAT obviously is going to get better. Butler and Teague put up around 36 and 37% from deep and that was with a lot less talent than Wolves got now. Obviously it would have been great to add a premier shooter, but looking at this deal, FO thought the biggest issue was rebounding and Gibson next to KAT with Butler also should help tons.

Gibson and Butler will definitely bring the toughness we were lacking last year.

[Takingbaconback]

Meh shooting issue is overblown. Wiggins should get better from him going 30% to 35% last year from 3, KAT obviously is going to get better. Butler and Teague put up around 36 and 37% from deep and that was with a lot less talent than Wolves got now. Obviously it would have been great to add a premier shooter, but looking at this deal, FO thought the biggest issue was rebounding and Gibson next to KAT with Butler also should help tons.

Gibson and Butler will definitely bring the toughness we were lacking last year.

Teague also has a mean streak to him lol. I hope these guys teach the young dudes how to celebrate and enjoy themselves more. Always felt like when Wiggins, KAT, or LaVine did something sensational, there was a restraint in their expression. "Gotta act like I've done this before" or something like that.

[King Malta]

The big problem I have here is it seems like all the moves are designed so we don't go into Luxury tax. If you want to have a top team you have to go into luxury tax. We should be signing great players to as large 4 year contracts as possible before resigning Wiggins and Towns. Have a championship level team and pay the freaking tax.

So rather than give ourselves short-term flexibility in case what we've built goes to sh*t, you'd rather us absolutely hamstring ourselves with massive expensive contracts?

I don't think you understand how the salary cap works. Once we sign Wiggins and Towns to their second contracts and assuming we keep Butler and I sure hope we do we are maxed forever. We won't be able to sign anybody. This offseason was our one chance to sign some great players. Instead we go mediocre players expiring in two years so we can avoid the luxury tax. Signing those massive expensive contracts and making them long term is our only chance to get the players we need.
Hedging our bets like what you are talking about IMO is chicken and will never get us anywhere. No guts no glory.

You have no idea why we've actually signed the contracts we have, you're just pissing and moaning about something with no factual substance to it, just your gut feel.

What happens if Butler walks hm? And then we're stuck paying Milsapp and whoever else you would've liked us to spunk money on huge dollars in their twilight years with no way to fix it. What about the bench too? It's all good and well to have a starting 5, but if we've got absolutely 0 bench and a starter goes down, then what?

Not to mention we'd actually need to be able to clear the money to sign players to contracts like that, which if you understood how the cap works I'd assume you'd know

[Loyal[]Wolf]

Meh shooting issue is overblown. Wiggins should get better from him going 30% to 35% last year from 3, KAT obviously is going to get better. Butler and Teague put up around 36 and 37% from deep and that was with a lot less talent than Wolves got now. Obviously it would have been great to add a premier shooter, but looking at this deal, FO thought the biggest issue was rebounding and Gibson next to KAT with Butler also should help tons.

Amen bro. There is no question we need one perimeter threat.

[kulaz3000]

As a Bulls fan and a huge Taj fan, you just signed a fantastic player.

You have two players in Taj and Butler who absolutely thrived in a Thib's system, who will in turn preach the benefits of the system when played the right way to the younger Wolves players. Though your team began to turn it around towards the end of the season, it's one thing to listen to Thib's because he is constantly barking out at you, but it will have a different impact because you have two players who thrived and succeed with his style of coaching in Butler and Thib's, so you have two players who will have key roles also being extension of the coach, which will be a huge benefit not only to the team, but also to Thib's.

Thib's is creating a foundation where he will continue to bring in players who he is confident that the player will buy into the system, but also thrive in it and if this team buys-in, look out. You guys can expect a big jump in the standings very early on in the season. Sure, you guys have holes like shooting, but you guys have three solid players in KAT, Wiggins and now Butler, and at the end of the day talent trumps all.

Now you've added the perfect role player in Taj who can start, come off the bench, who is a fantastic teammate, won't b**ch and moan about minutes, and who will mentor the young players with open arms. He is not only the perfect role player, he is the perfect teammate, and though he may frustrate you at times with his limitations as player, you'll love him as a leader, and as a teammate, and it's unlikely that you'll ever hear any ill words towards him from a teammate, coach or front office person at the Wolves.

You guys may be a few addition away from truly contending, but I'd be shocked if the Wolves weren't a 4-5 seed next season.

[bondom34]

I'd say something, but I think everyone else covered it. Taj wasn't in OKC long but he was just fantastic there as a teammate and player. You guys got a really good one.

[Nick K]

I have looked at Sportrac in the past, and I have had problems with them. They used to think the qualifying offer equaled the cap hold, and their numbers for individual salaries look a little different than what I have. Here, I think they should simply list Patton in the upper area (since the new CBA makes the 20% raise a mandatory), and include the two roster holds we have to meet the minimum 12 required by the CBA. (strangely, the rules are for 12 holds, and 13 minimum players!)

Using their salary numbers, I get $4.95 in cap space (with Patton and two $0.56 roster holds), and the room exception (not MLE) at $4.33 mil

Cool, that makes sense.

So probably some combo of our pick plus Aldrich plus the 4.95M in space for our primary bench wing. then 4.33m for 4th wing and/or combo guard. wonder if Tolliver would take a vet min? Aaron brooks as a 3rd pg for vet min?

Who in their right mind would give 7 mil for Cole Aldrich. Besides us that is.

[shrink]

I have looked at Sportrac in the past, and I have had problems with them. They used to think the qualifying offer equaled the cap hold, and their numbers for individual salaries look a little different than what I have. Here, I think they should simply list Patton in the upper area (since the new CBA makes the 20% raise a mandatory), and include the two roster holds we have to meet the minimum 12 required by the CBA. (strangely, the rules are for 12 holds, and 13 minimum players!)

Using their salary numbers, I get $4.95 in cap space (with Patton and two $0.56 roster holds), and the room exception (not MLE) at $4.33 mil

Cool, that makes sense.

So probably some combo of our pick plus Aldrich plus the 4.95M in space for our primary bench wing. then 4.33m for 4th wing and/or combo guard. wonder if Tolliver would take a vet min? Aaron brooks as a 3rd pg for vet min?

Who in their right mind would give 7 mil for Cole Aldrich. Besides us that is.

Most national people thought this was one of the few good free agent contracts to come out of 2016 free agency. It seems petty to complain about a 2 year deal for Cole at $14 mil, when fans of other teams are asking, "who in their right mind gives Timofrey Mozgov $72 mil? or Noah, or Evan Turner, or Deng, or Biyombo, or Chandler Parsons, etc etc etc.

While Thibs didn't play him much, Cole was pretty effective in a reserve role the previous year in LAC. And even though Towns and Dieng were extremely healthy, you need someone capable on the bench in case they get hurt.

[moss_is_1]

Guys like PJ Tucker are going for 8 Million. How on earth can anybody other than Gibson and his agent be happy with that contract?

? Gibson is a better player than Tucker... Not to mention we signed him for only 2 years, so probably boosted the AAV because of less security.

Gibson is about half the player that Tucker is. Where do you get this idea he is better?

Gibson has a higher PER, TS%, TRB%, better ws/48. I think it's absolutely not even a question that Taj is a better play than Tucker, let alone HALF the player as him.

[Nick K]

It's not that Taj sucks or something it's that using the precious cap space to upgrade from Gorgui or Bjelly's minutes to Taj is much less impactful than using it to upgrade the wings from literally nobody to rotation-caliber players. It's the opportunity cost.

I wouldn't overthink it. You get toughness, a guy who knows Thibs system inside out which will help Towns and Wigs immensely. You can't put a value on that.

[Takingbaconback]

If it's any consolation, Taj Gibson is going into his 9th season of NBA having played around 14,500 minutes. Paul Millsap is going into his 12th season with around 24,500 minutes under his belt. Both are 32 years old.

[kan_t]

? Gibson is a better player than Tucker... Not to mention we signed him for only 2 years, so probably boosted the AAV because of less security.

Gibson is about half the player that Tucker is. Where do you get this idea he is better?

Gibson has a higher PER, TS%, TRB%, better ws/48. I think it's absolutely not even a question that Taj is a better play than Tucker, let alone HALF the player as him.

People overrate Tucker because his tough playing style makes people think that he could guard LBJ/ Durant.

Then LBJ totally destroyed him in the playoff.

[KGdaBom]

So rather than give ourselves short-term flexibility in case what we've built goes to sh*t, you'd rather us absolutely hamstring ourselves with massive expensive contracts?

I don't think you understand how the salary cap works. Once we sign Wiggins and Towns to their second contracts and assuming we keep Butler and I sure hope we do we are maxed forever. We won't be able to sign anybody. This offseason was our one chance to sign some great players. Instead we go mediocre players expiring in two years so we can avoid the luxury tax. Signing those massive expensive contracts and making them long term is our only chance to get the players we need.
Hedging our bets like what you are talking about IMO is chicken and will never get us anywhere. No guts no glory.

You have no idea why we've actually signed the contracts we have, you're just pissing and moaning about something with no factual substance to it, just your gut feel.

What happens if Butler walks hm? And then we're stuck paying Milsapp and whoever else you would've liked us to spunk money on huge dollars in their twilight years with no way to fix it. What about the bench too? It's all good and well to have a starting 5, but if we've got absolutely 0 bench and a starter goes down, then what?

Not to mention we'd actually need to be able to clear the money to sign players to contracts like that, which if you understood how the cap works I'd assume you'd know

We did what we did and we have no bench anyway. Once again what we did was completely hedging our bet. Sure we have the safety net of just starting over with KAT and WIggins. I just wish we had set our sights higher. We aimed very low.

[PharmD]

Gibson is about half the player that Tucker is. Where do you get this idea he is better?

Gibson has a higher PER, TS%, TRB%, better ws/48. I think it's absolutely not even a question that Taj is a better play than Tucker, let alone HALF the player as him.

People overrate Tucker because his tough playing style makes people think that he could guard LBJ/ Durant.

Then LBJ totally destroyed him in the playoff.

Tucker did a great job guarding both Wiggins and Towns. Not many guys can shut down a talented 2 and a 5.

[shrink]

Gibson has a higher PER, TS%, TRB%, better ws/48. I think it's absolutely not even a question that Taj is a better play than Tucker, let alone HALF the player as him.

People overrate Tucker because his tough playing style makes people think that he could guard LBJ/ Durant.

Then LBJ totally destroyed him in the playoff.

Tucker did a great job guarding both Wiggins and Towns. Not many guys can shut down a talented 2 and a 5.

That's true, but he can't really do much else. Even his corner three is kind of weak.

I don't think Tucker's contract is bad, but it's years-not-dollars. It looks to me like Thibs has set up the off-season leaving an escape hatch in two years if things go wrong and Jimmy leaves. Jimmy - 2 years, Taj - 2 years, Teague - 2 years, and a PO to bail if we start a rebuild around KAT and Wiggins. We may have paid a little more per year for Taj, but it sounds like he turned down longer, richer deals to come here and play with Thibs, so it's probably a bit of a discount.

[Nick K]

Gibson is about half the player that Tucker is. Where do you get this idea he is better?

Gibson has a higher PER, TS%, TRB%, better ws/48. I think it's absolutely not even a question that Taj is a better play than Tucker, let alone HALF the player as him.

People overrate Tucker because his tough playing style makes people think that he could guard LBJ/ Durant.

Then LBJ totally destroyed him in the playoff.

LBJ destroys everybody.

[KGdaBom]

People overrate Tucker because his tough playing style makes people think that he could guard LBJ/ Durant.

Then LBJ totally destroyed him in the playoff.

Tucker did a great job guarding both Wiggins and Towns. Not many guys can shut down a talented 2 and a 5.

That's true, but he can't really do much else. Even his corner three is kind of weak.

I don't think Tucker's contract is bad, but it's years-not-dollars. It looks to me like Thibs has set up the off-season leaving an escape hatch in two years if things go wrong and Jimmy leaves. Jimmy - 2 years, Taj - 2 years, Teague - 2 years, and a PO to bail if we start a rebuild around KAT and Wiggins. We may have paid a little more per year for Taj, but it sounds like he turned down longer, richer deals to come here and play with Thibs, so it's probably a bit of a discount.

I would guess he turned down longer deals for more total dollars. I doubt anybody was offering him an average of $14 million.

[shrink]

I don't think Tucker's contract is bad, but it's years-not-dollars. It looks to me like Thibs has set up the off-season leaving an escape hatch in two years if things go wrong and Jimmy leaves. Jimmy - 2 years, Taj - 2 years, Teague - 2 years, and a PO to bail if we start a rebuild around KAT and Wiggins. We may have paid a little more per year for Taj, but it sounds like he turned down longer, richer deals to come here and play with Thibs, so it's probably a bit of a discount.

I would guess he turned down longer deals for more total dollars. I doubt anybody was offering him an average of $14 million.

That's what I am saying. 4 for $42 seems like something one of the teams would have offered.