Why everyone has "lost it" due to free agency

[bake51]

2 years from now Taj and Crawful will be out of the league and we will be completely and totally capped out including Jimmy's cap hold. We pretty much need to be NBA finalists for him to consider resigning as, well, we will have already peaked roster-wise.

That's the plan though, right?

We added the older Taj and Crawford in their final contracts (?) to get into the playoffs the next two years, and get KAT and Wiggins some playoff experience. The playoffs make us a better free agent destination for the MLE. In two years, Taj and Crawford are gone, and Jimmy and Teague will decide whether they want to stay. If they don't, we really don't have much salary on the books (Patton and OKC pick?).

Well just Wiggins and KAT are 55% of the cap. With Butler and Teague we're already capped out. With just Teague we're over 70% and with just Butler we're at 85%.

I don't think the scenario where Teague and Butler split on us (which will be noticed) is a good one. Okay, we have maybe space for a max guy (maybe not). But if Butler doesn't want to be that guy and he knows us, who will?

What would you rather us do? Pay Lavine the max or try and pay Butler hopefully after 2 good playoff runs?

The cap will always present problems but it is a problem for all successful teams.

[PharmD]

2 years from now Taj and Crawful will be out of the league and we will be completely and totally capped out including Jimmy's cap hold. We pretty much need to be NBA finalists for him to consider resigning as, well, we will have already peaked roster-wise.

That's the plan though, right?

We added the older Taj and Crawford in their final contracts (?) to get into the playoffs the next two years, and get KAT and Wiggins some playoff experience. The playoffs make us a better free agent destination for the MLE. In two years, Taj and Crawford are gone, and Jimmy and Teague will decide whether they want to stay. If they don't, we really don't have much salary on the books (Patton and OKC pick?).

Gorgui is also on the books. The two year thing not really all that well thought out. We will still have a lot in obligations. It could be worse, but we are looking at Gorgui, Wiggins, cap holds on Butler, Towns and Teauge.

There will be two tell-tale signs if we set up the two year thing and botch it like as far as I am concerned we have done in FA. 1. We extend Towns before FA, (like we did with Gorgui), and 2. We don't trade Gorgui ASAP. Now, we can hold on to Gorgui, but it is a major risk, and he won't be getting younger and his contract won't be getting better. I think the time has passed to use his value via FA, so I think we need to take some risk and cross our fingers he doesn't get hurt before we trade him.

I think trading Gorgui would be pretty bad actually (caveat: unless we get a good rotation wing). Trading him is one of the only ways we can improve or change the team after this season.

We have:
1) late firsts
2) Mid level exemption
3) Trade Gorgui
4) Blow it up

[PharmD]

That's the plan though, right?

We added the older Taj and Crawford in their final contracts (?) to get into the playoffs the next two years, and get KAT and Wiggins some playoff experience. The playoffs make us a better free agent destination for the MLE. In two years, Taj and Crawford are gone, and Jimmy and Teague will decide whether they want to stay. If they don't, we really don't have much salary on the books (Patton and OKC pick?).

Well just Wiggins and KAT are 55% of the cap. With Butler and Teague we're already capped out. With just Teague we're over 70% and with just Butler we're at 85%.

I don't think the scenario where Teague and Butler split on us (which will be noticed) is a good one. Okay, we have maybe space for a max guy (maybe not). But if Butler doesn't want to be that guy and he knows us, who will?

What would you rather us do? Pay Lavine the max or try and pay Butler hopefully after 2 good playoff runs?

The cap will always present problems but it is a problem for all successful teams.

I would have rather used the Taj cap space to sign someone much younger that could still be contributing after a couple of years. Taj money plus our cap space probably gets KCP, for example.

[Swish4]

I expect this year's Gorgui to be better than last year's Gorgui. At least in terms of how he effects the win/loss record. He won't have to try to do too much and can play within himself more defensively surrounded by better defenders generally. In other words, easier to do your job when everyone else is doing theirs. He can concentrate more on rebounding, blocking out, proper positioning, the screen game and rim protection.

[Neeva]

Lets hope so most of the fanbase here has been trying to upgrade his position for the past two years wanting Bender and Isaac.
Thank god we didn't delect Bender.

I expect this year's Gorgui to be better than last year's Gorgui. At least in terms of how he effects the win/loss record. He won't have to try to do too much and can play within himself more defensively surrounded by better defenders generally. In other words, easier to do your job when everyone else is doing theirs. He can concentrate more on rebounding, blocking out, proper positioning, the screen game and rim protection.

[Midw35t]

Well just Wiggins and KAT are 55% of the cap. With Butler and Teague we're already capped out. With just Teague we're over 70% and with just Butler we're at 85%.

I don't think the scenario where Teague and Butler split on us (which will be noticed) is a good one. Okay, we have maybe space for a max guy (maybe not). But if Butler doesn't want to be that guy and he knows us, who will?

What would you rather us do? Pay Lavine the max or try and pay Butler hopefully after 2 good playoff runs?

The cap will always present problems but it is a problem for all successful teams.

I would have rather used the Taj cap space to sign someone much younger that could still be contributing after a couple of years. Taj money plus our cap space probably gets KCP, for example.

It's a hopeless endeavor trying to convince other people. LaVine = 4+ years of control. Dunn the same. 7th pick, again, the same. I'm with you there.

I do think the butler deal was overall a "trade win". Doesn't change the control factor.

People forget that we do not have any leverage on Butler. Every team can offer what we can offer.

The subsequent Rubio, Taj, and Crawford moves were terrible.

I'm a huge fan who waited and waited. I finally was seeing the light,as most of us were.. Now that light is more likely than not to be a quick flash gone in 2-3 years, rather than an enduring beam. Yes, I'm upset.

[shrink]

2 years from now Taj and Crawful will be out of the league and we will be completely and totally capped out including Jimmy's cap hold. We pretty much need to be NBA finalists for him to consider resigning as, well, we will have already peaked roster-wise.

That's the plan though, right?

We added the older Taj and Crawford in their final contracts (?) to get into the playoffs the next two years, and get KAT and Wiggins some playoff experience. The playoffs make us a better free agent destination for the MLE. In two years, Taj and Crawford are gone, and Jimmy and Teague will decide whether they want to stay. If they don't, we really don't have much salary on the books (Patton and OKC pick?).

Gorgui is also on the books. The two year thing not really all that well thought out. We will still have a lot in obligations. It could be worse, but we are looking at Gorgui, Wiggins, cap holds on Butler, Towns and Teauge.

There will be two tell-tale signs if we set up the two year thing and botch it like as far as I am concerned we have done in FA. 1. We extend Towns before FA, (like we did with Gorgui), and 2. We don't trade Gorgui ASAP. Now, we can hold on to Gorgui, but it is a major risk, and he won't be getting younger and his contract won't be getting better. I think the time has passed to use his value via FA, so I think we need to take some risk and cross our fingers he doesn't get hurt before we trade him.

I am willing to consider Gorgui trades, so I agree with you there. I don't think Thibs is, though, at least for what we'd get back.

I guess the two points I wanted to get across is that the two year escape plan is better than these teams that tie up their future for years. We have two really young players to base around, but there is no guarantee that they become true superstars, or even that they don't have a career-ending injury tomorrow. If we need to become a rebuilding team, we will have that option. It may not be totally rebuilt with cap space. However, hopefully we are doing so well, that we will have MLE suitors this year and next, to want to join the wolves because we are a rising contender.

Second, there is a benefit to aligning your players to expire at the same time. It may create cap space, or it may allow you to change directions with sign-and-trades, and continue to operate above the cap.

[subwayJ]

What would you rather us do? Pay Lavine the max or try and pay Butler hopefully after 2 good playoff runs?

The cap will always present problems but it is a problem for all successful teams.

I would have rather used the Taj cap space to sign someone much younger that could still be contributing after a couple of years. Taj money plus our cap space probably gets KCP, for example.

It's a hopeless endeavor trying to convince other people. LaVine = 4+ years of control. Dunn the same. 7th pick, again, the same. I'm with you there.

I do think the butler deal was overall a "trade win". Doesn't change the control factor.

People forget that we do not have any leverage on Butler. Every team can offer what we can offer.

The subsequent Rubio, Taj, and Crawford moves were terrible.

I'm a huge fan who waited and waited. I finally was seeing the light,as most of us were.. Now that light is more likely than not to be a quick flash gone in 2-3 years, rather than an enduring beam. Yes, I'm upset.

"potential enduring beam" vs "actual light"

As a fan who hasn't seen the sun for many years, ill take that first hint of light and hope it lasts, than hoping that never ending light blesses us.

#winterisover

[Alwaysrightguy]

I'll take a 2 year run anyday over grooming "potential" in the event these young kids like Zach, Wiggz, and Dunn actually turn into good players. Been a fan since day 1 but I am competative and a winner so I want to win unlike some here that are content in rebuilding every fkng year because they are scared of how competitive the west will be. Nobody can predict the future so I could care less who stays and who goes. Good teams reload, not rebuild.

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[Midw35t]

I'll take a 2 year run anyday over grooming "potential" in the event these young kids like Zach, Wiggz, and Dunn actually turn into good players. Been a fan since day 1 but I am competative and a winner so I want to win unlike some here that are content in rebuilding every fkng year because they are scared of how competitive the west will be. Nobody can predict the future so I could care less who stays and who goes. Good teams reload, not rebuild.

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It's difficult to "reload" when you are still trying to "build". Hell, even if we make the playoffs and appease some "fans" we still get steamrolled by actual contending teams. That's not worth it to me. Hate my position all you want, but it is more realistic than the opposite...

[FargoWolf]

What would you rather us do? Pay Lavine the max or try and pay Butler hopefully after 2 good playoff runs?

The cap will always present problems but it is a problem for all successful teams.

I would have rather used the Taj cap space to sign someone much younger that could still be contributing after a couple of years. Taj money plus our cap space probably gets KCP, for example.

It's a hopeless endeavor trying to convince other people. LaVine = 4+ years of control. Dunn the same. 7th pick, again, the same. I'm with you there.

I do think the butler deal was overall a "trade win". Doesn't change the control factor.

People forget that we do not have any leverage on Butler. Every team can offer what we can offer.

The subsequent Rubio, Taj, and Crawford moves were terrible.

I'm a huge fan who waited and waited. I finally was seeing the light,as most of us were.. Now that light is more likely than not to be a quick flash gone in 2-3 years, rather than an enduring beam. Yes, I'm upset.

The Rubio move was a solid move in my opinion. Got rid of a pg that didn't work here for a better fit and netted a first round pick. That move was part of the Jimmy trade, getting a pg that can play off the ball to compliment his game. It is also hard for me to argue with the Crawford move, he came here cheaply on a two year deal. No idea how that is terrible. I guess you could argue about Taj.

That said I'm a fan that never really believed in the young core we had, too many flawed players. I'm glad Thibs decided to just put a great team around Wiggins and KAT and see what happens.

[Alwaysrightguy]

I'll take a 2 year run anyday over grooming "potential" in the event these young kids like Zach, Wiggz, and Dunn actually turn into good players. Been a fan since day 1 but I am competative and a winner so I want to win unlike some here that are content in rebuilding every fkng year because they are scared of how competitive the west will be. Nobody can predict the future so I could care less who stays and who goes. Good teams reload, not rebuild.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

It's difficult to "reload" when you are still trying to "build". Hell, even if we make the playoffs and appease some "fans" we still get steamrolled by actual contending teams. That's not worth it to me. Hate my position all you want, but it is more realistic than the opposite...

Another reason to go for it now rather then keep buildimg is we don't have a pick next year in case you forgot. So lets give Atlanta a late pick instead of a lotto pick. I don't think Tibbs signed his contract with the intent to keep building. A winning culture will bring good players so that is how you re tool your roster. I give Tom an A for this offseason and can't wait for meaningful games. I still pinch myself that he was able to get Buckets without including Wiggz even tho I am one of AW's biggest critics. All these pros added will teach him hopefully.

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[KGdaBom]

I'll take a 2 year run anyday over grooming "potential" in the event these young kids like Zach, Wiggz, and Dunn actually turn into good players. Been a fan since day 1 but I am competative and a winner so I want to win unlike some here that are content in rebuilding every fkng year because they are scared of how competitive the west will be. Nobody can predict the future so I could care less who stays and who goes. Good teams reload, not rebuild.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

It's difficult to "reload" when you are still trying to "build". Hell, even if we make the playoffs and appease some "fans" we still get steamrolled by actual contending teams. That's not worth it to me. Hate my position all you want, but it is more realistic than the opposite...

There is only one contending Team. After them we can be as good as any. The idea that since the Warriors are too good so why bother trying until they are in decline sickens me. Let's be as good as we can be. I think we are going to have one heck of a team next year and for many years after.

[Alwaysrightguy]

Tucking my tail between my legs is chicken$hit. Because the warriors are so good, we need to keep building is one of the worst strategies I have ever heard of....who thinks like this? These are professional athletes who are very good at what they do, some more than others but it is still 5 on 5 and whoever wants it more will prevail 9 times out of 10. Maybe someone else knocks off the warriors? There is no guarantee this group even makes the post season but at least by adding "proven" talent, they gave themselves a chance and getting steamrolled in the playoffs would do wonders for a young team. Then we see if they have the heart to bounce back

[KGdaBom]

Tucking my tail between my legs is chicken$hit. Because the warriors are so good, we need to keep building is one of the worst strategies I have ever heard of....who thinks like this? These are professional athletes who are very good at what they do, some more than others but it is still 5 on 5 and whoever wants it more will prevail 9 times out of 10. Maybe someone else knocks off the warriors? There is no guarantee this group even makes the post season but at least by adding "proven" talent, they gave themselves a chance and getting steamrolled in the playoffs would do wonders for a young team. Then we see if they have the heart to bounce back

I don't even expect us to get steamrolled. I'm giving us a 50/50 chance of winning a playoff series.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

I'll take a 2 year run anyday over grooming "potential" in the event these young kids like Zach, Wiggz, and Dunn actually turn into good players. Been a fan since day 1 but I am competative and a winner so I want to win unlike some here that are content in rebuilding every fkng year because they are scared of how competitive the west will be. Nobody can predict the future so I could care less who stays and who goes. Good teams reload, not rebuild.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

It's difficult to "reload" when you are still trying to "build". Hell, even if we make the playoffs and appease some "fans" we still get steamrolled by actual contending teams. That's not worth it to me. Hate my position all you want, but it is more realistic than the opposite...

You really think so? I think the Wolves now have every bit of talent as any team in the west, and are one Curry or KD injury away from it being a level field.

We're not on that field with last years returning squad.

[Klomp]

I'll take a 2 year run anyday over grooming "potential" in the event these young kids like Zach, Wiggz, and Dunn actually turn into good players. Been a fan since day 1 but I am competative and a winner so I want to win unlike some here that are content in rebuilding every fkng year because they are scared of how competitive the west will be. Nobody can predict the future so I could care less who stays and who goes. Good teams reload, not rebuild.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

It's difficult to "reload" when you are still trying to "build". Hell, even if we make the playoffs and appease some "fans" we still get steamrolled by actual contending teams. That's not worth it to me. Hate my position all you want, but it is more realistic than the opposite...

Remember who we are. Only one time has this franchise advanced out of the first round. Even just doing that should be celebrated. Not saying that's the ultimate goal, but it's also not realistic to jump from the lottery right to the Finals without making some kind of significant change to the roster. This was that change. Maybe it won't get us all the way there, but it gets us a lot closer.

[PharmD]

What would you rather us do? Pay Lavine the max or try and pay Butler hopefully after 2 good playoff runs?

The cap will always present problems but it is a problem for all successful teams.

I would have rather used the Taj cap space to sign someone much younger that could still be contributing after a couple of years. Taj money plus our cap space probably gets KCP, for example.

It's a hopeless endeavor trying to convince other people. LaVine = 4+ years of control. Dunn the same. 7th pick, again, the same. I'm with you there.

I do think the butler deal was overall a "trade win". Doesn't change the control factor.

People forget that we do not have any leverage on Butler. Every team can offer what we can offer.

The subsequent Rubio, Taj, and Crawford moves were terrible.

I'm a huge fan who waited and waited. I finally was seeing the light,as most of us were.. Now that light is more likely than not to be a quick flash gone in 2-3 years, rather than an enduring beam. Yes, I'm upset.

Yeah, this is pretty much exactly how i feel.

We have 164 games of Jimmy Butler and this current team. We are paper thin and the tiniest injury or something will probably gg us in the West. I'm nervous. Even Butler missing his customary 15-20 games could doom us.

Even in a very optimistic scenario, Jeff Teague is gonna have us over a barrel like Jrue Holiday and the Pelicans this year. We are capped out and need to pay him whatever he demands or have no point guard.

Plus we lost the "started from the bottom with these guys" feel of the team. Would have been so cool to get a little better year by year until we finally climbed that mountain and were contenders.

And losing my favorite players will significantly decrease my enjoyment of watching the team.

Anyway, there's plenty to be excited about and i understand/respect people feeling that way. But there's plenty to be nervous about here too. The downside is pretty bad and likely imo.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

I would have rather used the Taj cap space to sign someone much younger that could still be contributing after a couple of years. Taj money plus our cap space probably gets KCP, for example.

It's a hopeless endeavor trying to convince other people. LaVine = 4+ years of control. Dunn the same. 7th pick, again, the same. I'm with you there.

I do think the butler deal was overall a "trade win". Doesn't change the control factor.

People forget that we do not have any leverage on Butler. Every team can offer what we can offer.

The subsequent Rubio, Taj, and Crawford moves were terrible.

I'm a huge fan who waited and waited. I finally was seeing the light,as most of us were.. Now that light is more likely than not to be a quick flash gone in 2-3 years, rather than an enduring beam. Yes, I'm upset.

Yeah, this is pretty much exactly how i feel.

We have 164 games of Jimmy Butler and this current team. We are paper thin and the tiniest injury or something will probably gg us in the West. I'm nervous. Even Butler missing his customary 15-20 games could doom us.

Even in a very optimistic scenario, Jeff Teague is gonna have us over a barrel like Jrue Holiday and the Pelicans this year. We are capped out and need to pay him whatever he demands or have no point guard.

Plus we lost the "started from the bottom with these guys" feel of the team. Would have been so cool to get a little better year by year until we finally climbed that mountain and were contenders.

And losing my favorite players will significantly decrease my enjoyment of watching the team.

Anyway, there's plenty to be excited about and i understand/respect people feeling that way. But there's plenty to be nervous about here too. The downside is pretty bad and likely imo.

Watch on YouTube

[PharmD]

I'll take a 2 year run anyday over grooming "potential" in the event these young kids like Zach, Wiggz, and Dunn actually turn into good players. Been a fan since day 1 but I am competative and a winner so I want to win unlike some here that are content in rebuilding every fkng year because they are scared of how competitive the west will be. Nobody can predict the future so I could care less who stays and who goes. Good teams reload, not rebuild.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

It's difficult to "reload" when you are still trying to "build". Hell, even if we make the playoffs and appease some "fans" we still get steamrolled by actual contending teams. That's not worth it to me. Hate my position all you want, but it is more realistic than the opposite...

You really think so? I think the Wolves now have every bit of talent as any team in the west, and are one Curry or KD injury away from it being a level field.

We're not on that field with last years returning squad.

I think we're pretty clearly worse than Golden State, Houston, and OKC, and we'll probably finish lower than San Antonio. Denver got better, Portland got better (16-6 with Nurkic), the Pelicans could be really good (or bad). I think we're a clearly better than Memphis, Clippers, or the Jazz but it won't take much of a slip-up to have those teams breathing down our necks.

I think we're probably about the 5th seed. But man, any injury to anybody in the rotation other than Taj, Gorgui, or Bjelly just kills us in this hyper-competitive conference.