How Good can KAT be this year

KGdaBom · Post #1 » by **KGdaBom** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:46 pm

His stats over his first two seasons were legendary. As good as basically any player to ever play the game in their first two seasons.
IMO despite his less than stellar defensive play he was deserving of at least the third team All NBA spot that was given to Deandre Jordan. Here is the Sporting News analysis of the slight to KAT.

Also absent from the list is Karl-Anthony Towns, who many believe deserved the spot on the third team over DeAndre Jordan. A big difference, of course, is the success of Jordan's team over Towns', but that shouldn't matter too much.

Let's break down their numbers:

Towns: 25.1 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 1.3 bpg, 2.7 apg
Jordan: 12.7 ppg, 13.8 rpg, 1.7 bpg, 1.2 apg
Those numbers neglected to mention FT%

Now 21 with another year bigger, stronger, and more experienced how good should we expect KAT to be. I have him at the very least as top ten. I would not be surprised if he grows into a top five player this year. Am I a biased homer or am I spot on?

KGdaBom · Post #2 » by **KGdaBom** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:02 pm

Should I have made this a poll? Can one be added after the fact?

FinnTheHuman · Post #3 » by **FinnTheHuman** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:32 pm

I wonder how much he can improve defensively. Realistically, if he focuses more on D, he will be an average defensive center next season, but the dream would be that he becomes an above average defender in multiple facets. That's surely an individual variable with most impact on our team's outlook next season, much more important than any variable in Wiggy's game.

His D can put him in a top 5 category as well as expose him and put him outside of any all-NBA team again.

KGdaBom · Post #4 » by **KGdaBom** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:47 pm

FinnTheHuman wrote:I wonder how much he can improve defensively. Realistically, if he focuses more on D, he will be an average defensive center next season, but the dream would be that he becomes an above average defender in multiple facets. That's surely an individual variable with most impact on our team's outlook next season, much more important than any variable in Wiggy's game.

His D can put him in a top 5 category as well as expose him and put him outside of any all-NBA team again.

Hi Finn and thanks for being the first responder on the first thread I have posted. Looking at the numbers from Jordan making the third All NBA over KAT they are almost laughable. KAT's defense might have been below average, but not that bad. So unless KAT takes a huge step backwards from last year I see no way that he doesn't make an all NBA team this year. Most recent Rotoworld Mock draft had KAT going second overall. I know it's fantasy and not real basketball, but wow 2nd overall.

SBM · Post #5 » by **SBM** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:06 pm

I saw Teague get Myles Turner and Thad Young plenty of open easy looks. Can't say Rubio isn't better but I know Teague likes playing with bigs that can do some stuff around the paint.

ace625214 · Post #6 » by **ace625214** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:07 pm

So many new threads lately. This is why we have player threads.

I think KAT is going to have a season that will make him a lock for the 2nd team and push for the first team. I don't think he's going to be a good or great defender this soon, but I think his advanced stats will look at least average. Another year in the system and bringing in Butler/Gibson are going to make everyone look better.

FinnTheHuman · Post #7 » by **FinnTheHuman** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:08 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:I wonder how much he can improve defensively. Realistically, if he focuses more on D, he will be an average defensive center next season, but the dream would be that he becomes an above average defender in multiple facets. That's surely an individual variable with most impact on our team's outlook next season, much more important than any variable in Wiggy's game.

His D can put him in a top 5 category as well as expose him and put him outside of any all-NBA team again.

Hi Finn and thanks for being the first responder on the first thread I have posted. Looking at the numbers from Jordan making the third All NBA over KAT they are almost laughable. KAT's defense might have been below average, but not that bad. So unless KAT takes a huge step backwards from last year I see no way that he doesn't make an all NBA team this year. Most recent Rotoworld Mock draft had KAT going second overall. I know it's fantasy and not real basketball, but wow 2nd overall.

I think Jordan got his all-NBA spot because of the dominating narrative of today's role of a center - that today's centers are fool's gold if they're not above average defenders, no matter how good they are offensively. I might expand on it later today, but I tend to agree with that narrative and I think there are many reasons to think Jordan earned his spot.

KGdaBom · Post #8 » by **KGdaBom** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:23 pm

FinnTheHuman wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:I wonder how much he can improve defensively. Realistically, if he focuses more on D, he will be an average defensive center next season, but the dream would be that he becomes an above average defender in multiple facets. That's surely an individual variable with most impact on our team's outlook next season, much more important than any variable in Wiggy's game.

His D can put him in a top 5 category as well as expose him and put him outside of any all-NBA team again.

Hi Finn and thanks for being the first responder on the first thread I have posted. Looking at the numbers from Jordan making the third All NBA over KAT they are almost laughable. KAT's defense might have been below average, but not that bad. So unless KAT takes a huge step backwards from last year I see no way that he doesn't make an all NBA team this year. Most recent Rotoworld Mock draft had KAT going second overall. I know it's fantasy and not real basketball, but wow 2nd overall.

I think Jordan got his all-NBA spot because of the dominating narrative of today's role of a center - that today's centers are fool's gold if they're not above average defenders, no matter how good they are offensively. I might expand on it later today, but I tend to agree with that narrative and I think there are many reasons to think Jordan earned his spot.

Jordan is a GREAT Rebounder. A very good shot blocker. His offensive game is just about completely limited to put backs and alley oops. He can't make a FT to save his life. I personally don't think that comes close to KAT's all around impact on the game. I think he got the nod over KAT last year simply because KAT hadn't paid his dues yet and the voters know that KAT will end his career with 10 or more ALL NBA nods so they pushed off voting for him for one more year. I hope you don't think KAT's game is fools gold and think he isn't a particularly good player. One thing people forget when evaluating defense is that defensive rebounding is one of the most important parts of playing D and KAT does that extremely well. I personally consider KAT an above average Defensive player already based on that aspect of his game.

theGreatRC · Post #9 » by **theGreatRC** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:55 am

Best big in the league if his defense can be above average for a whole year. No one in the league can guard him on O

Actually, Anthony Davis & JaMychal Green are the only two players I can remember last year that gave him trouble

Merc_Porto · Post #10 » by **Merc_Porto** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:02 am

With the Jimmy Butler trade or not... (I wanted Jimmy badly in MN)

KAT for me was always the "key" element for this team to go from a playoff's team to a championship team. Still is.

He need's to be the guy and like i said, i wanted Jimmy in Minnesota badly but i never want him for him to be the no.1 guy for this team moving forward...

Is all about KAT and surround him with the best possible cast.

FinnTheHuman · Post #11 » by **FinnTheHuman** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:39 am

KGdaBom wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Hi Finn and thanks for being the first responder on the first thread I have posted. Looking at the numbers from Jordan making the third All NBA over KAT they are almost laughable. KAT's defense might have been below average, but not that bad. So unless KAT takes a huge step backwards from last year I see no way that he doesn't make an all NBA team this year. Most recent Rotoworld Mock draft had KAT going second overall. I know it's fantasy and not real basketball, but wow 2nd overall.

I think Jordan got his all-NBA spot because of the dominating narrative of today's role of a center - that today's centers are fool's gold if they're not above average defenders, no matter how good they are offensively. I might expand on it later today, but I tend to agree with that narrative and I think there are many reasons to think Jordan earned his spot.

Jordan is a GREAT Rebounder. A very good shot blocker. His offensive game is just about completely limited to put backs and alley oops. He can't make a FT to save his life. I personally don't think that comes close to KAT's all around impact on the game. I think he got the nod over KAT last year simply because KAT hadn't paid his dues yet and the voters know that KAT will end his career with 10 or more ALL NBA nods so they pushed off voting for him for one more year. I hope you don't think KAT's game is fools gold and think he isn't a particularly good player. One thing people forget when evaluating defense is that defensive rebounding is one of the most important parts of playing D and KAT does that extremely well. I personally consider KAT an above average Defensive player already based on that aspect of his game.

Don't think he's fool's gold, just think he'll hardly be a top 5 player in the league if he's not an above average defender, no matter how impressive his numbers on offense could be.

Post #12 » by **Calinks** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:50 am

Defense is his biggest flaw but I think he can be as good as imaginable. In my mind he is a generational talent. A guy who only comes around once or twice a decade. WE struck gold drafting him, will probably be the best number 1 pick of his decade.

minimus · Post #13 » by **minimus** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:55 am

Defense and better understanding of offensive flow => passing. These two aspects are the most important. Then it comes to simply winning games, and not just putting great numbers or records

ace625214 · Post #14 » by **ace625214** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:33 am

FinnTheHuman wrote:
Don't think he's fool's gold, just think he'll hardly be a top 5 player in the league if he's not an above average defender, no matter how impressive his numbers on offense could be.

Curry and Harden are in most people's top-5 despite their lack of defense. It would definitely help his case, but it's not required.

KGdaBom · Post #15 » by **KGdaBom** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:42 am

FinnTheHuman wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
I think Jordan got his all-NBA spot because of the dominating narrative of today's role of a center - that today's centers are fool's gold if they're not above average defenders, no matter how good they are offensively. I might expand on it later today, but I tend to agree with that narrative and I think there are many reasons to think Jordan earned his spot.

Jordan is a GREAT Rebounder. A very good shot blocker. His offensive game is just about completely limited to put backs and alley oops. He can't make a FT to save his life. I personally don't think that comes close to KAT's all around impact on the game. I think he got the nod over KAT last year simply because KAT hadn't paid his dues yet and the voters know that KAT will end his career with 10 or more ALL NBA nods so they pushed off voting for him for one more year. I hope you don't think KAT's game is fools gold and think he isn't a particularly good player. One thing people forget when evaluating defense is that defensive rebounding is one of the most important parts of playing D and KAT does that extremely well. I personally consider KAT an above average Defensive player already based on that aspect of his game.

Don't think he's fool's gold, just think he'll hardly be a top 5 player in the league if he's not an above average defender, no matter how impressive his numbers on offense could be.

I believe he is already an above average defender with all the defensive rebounds and solid block numbers.

nba_addict · Post #16 » by **nba_addict** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:56 am

I think Taj and Butler mentoring him how to anchor the thibudeau defense will help a lot sneaking his name in MVP talks especially if he can maintain his offensive contributions similar to last year.

FinnTheHuman · Post #17 » by **FinnTheHuman** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:57 am

ace625214 wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
Don't think he's fool's gold, just think he'll hardly be a top 5 player in the league if he's not an above average defender, no matter how impressive his numbers on offense could be.

Curry and Harden are in most people's top-5 despite their lack of defense. It would definitely help his case, but it's not required.

Harden and Curry are triple threats and ball handlers which KAT is not so they're more valuable offensively, and defensive capabilities of guards are much less important than those of centers. It is much more unforgiving to have a combo of a good defensive PG/SG + a bad defensive C than a bad defensive PG/SG + a good defensive C. On top of that, Curry is very much a plus defender for like two seasons now, and Harden is not nearly as bad as his reputation would suggest.

FinnTheHuman · Post #18 » by **FinnTheHuman** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:11 am

KGdaBom wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Jordan is a GREAT Rebounder. A very good shot blocker. His offensive game is just about completely limited to put backs and alley oops. He can't make a FT to save his life. I personally don't think that comes close to KAT's all around impact on the game. I think he got the nod over KAT last year simply because KAT hadn't paid his dues yet and the voters know that KAT will end his career with 10 or more ALL NBA nods so they pushed off voting for him for one more year. I hope you don't think KAT's game is fools gold and think he isn't a particularly good player. One thing people forget when evaluating defense is that defensive rebounding is one of the most important parts of playing D and KAT does that extremely well. I personally consider KAT an above average Defensive player already based on that aspect of his game.

Don't think he's fool's gold, just think he'll hardly be a top 5 player in the league if he's not an above average defender, no matter how impressive his numbers on offense could be.

I believe he is already an above average defender with all the defensive rebounds and solid block numbers.

A guy who's dead last in DRPM among centers is an above average defender?

andyhop · Post #19 » by **andyhop** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:17 am

He had a very good case for being the least valuable defensive player in the league last year accounting for positional defensive value and minutes played so hopefully he will improve dramatically on that end of the floor

KGdaBom · Post #20 » by **KGdaBom** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:30 am

FinnTheHuman wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
Don't think he's fool's gold, just think he'll hardly be a top 5 player in the league if he's not an above average defender, no matter how impressive his numbers on offense could be.

I believe he is already an above average defender with all the defensive rebounds and solid block numbers.

A guy who's dead last in DRPM among centers is an above average defender?

He gets 12.5 RPG and is dead last in DRPM. That is shocking. However, it doesn't matter the position he plays. It is the defensive rebounds he pulls down. I don't care about the DRPM, I don't care about the position. He was 7th in the league in defensive rebounds. That means he ended the opposing teams possession more than 98% of all players in the NBA.