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Trade talk 2017-18

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Streakers33
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1641 » by Streakers33 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:01 pm

Winning solves all shrink.. no reason he wouldn’t take 20 mil a year to stay with our culture , even more so in a shrinking big man market.. not many teams can or want to afford him..

and second note.. grow a pair. Minnesota nice is over. Go after players u want to win. View butler trade.. we signed all thibs FA on his list.. if the wolves want DJ .. then go get him.. good teams mix chance with strategy.. all top teams are capped..

With that said.. we are a top four team in the west.. that was our actual goal.. now next is playoffs. Thank god we on that train.. now let’s be a tough out. We ok if we stand pat too.. this team has done enough already for this year..


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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1642 » by MN7725 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:11 am

Wing Depth Trades

Dieng/Aldrich for Matthews/Powell

Dallas gains $11+ mil for tight 2018 FA, can be used to gain picks by taking in salary if not go after FA, tradeoff for taking on Dieng's longer contract but he could be their starter for length of contract.

Wolves get 3/D wing, get off Dieng's problematic long-term $.

Dieng/Matthews isn't new, but usually see Dallas fans not interested in Dieng's contract for rebuilding team, so the Powell-Aldrich contract swap is the incentive, and gain significant $ for when cap space might be most valuable ever, given how few teams will have space (5-6?) and how many are projected in the tax (14-15?).

Powell at least would be a different kind of big with his athleticism and mobility. I'm probably higher on him them most. Similar production as Dieng this season in bench role for past two years


Here's one I haven't see anywhere

Teague to Knicks for Lee, Thomas, O'Quinn. (Bazz or MGH probably have to be included for roster spot)

Bad look for organization to trade recently signed FA, but Knicks would be pretty good situation for Teague (currently starting Jarret freaking Jack).

Lee is $12 mil/yr through '19-20. Age 32-34 years on that contract is worrisome, but he's been durable and would have reduced role
Thomas is $7 mil for '18-19, but guaranteed only $1 mil for '19-20 which is key financially.
O'Quinn is solid and properly paid backup C, player option for $4 mil for 2018-19. Knicks would still have Kanter, Hernangomez, Noah

Its tough to find a fit for Teague where he would be an upgrade, not blocking a young PG, AND get back a quality wing like Lee.

Orlando was other team that had decent wings (Ross/Simmons), but depends on what their new management thinks about Payton, Other than that I couldn't really see any other teams that made sense (if you wanted to trade Teague, I'm on fence despite proposing this)

My thought main though is
1)Butler as primary ball handler>>>Teague, Lee off-ball and defensively fit with Butler>>>Teague
2) Tyus can handle larger role
3) save 2019-20 $, I think it's very likely Teague opts in at age 31

This would allow:
Butler/Tyus/Crawford as the primary ball handler's on offense, and be able to put two solid wing defenders and off-ball shooters in Lee/Matthews with them. Just do not have players like that on the roster now and I believe it is huge liability

Playoffs Switchable-Defense Death Lineup
Butler
Lee
Wig
Matthews
KAT

2018-19 Wolves would be about $7 mil over luxury tax without a Bjelica contract, basically the difference between Aldrich's non-guaranteed and Powell. Assumes Crawford, O'Quinn both opt-in. Stretching Thomas would be an option to save $. It will be difficult for Wolves to avoid lux tax no matter what they do given Wiggins bump and no contracts coming off

But 2019-20 Wolves would be "save" $14 mil from having Lee/Powell instead of Dieng/Teague
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1643 » by King Malta » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:25 am

Bev and DJ would be great gets for us if possible.

DJ
KAT
Wiggins
Butler
Bev

That team suddenly looks a lot more solid defensively and Taj coming off the bench offers you some additional production there that we're not getting out of Gorgui atm. I'd be willing to include Teague for Bev for the record, I think Pat's a much better fit for what we're doing here.
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1644 » by MN7725 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:18 am

King Malta wrote:Bev and DJ would be great gets for us if possible.

DJ
KAT
Wiggins
Butler
Bev

That team suddenly looks a lot more solid defensively and Taj coming off the bench offers you some additional production there that we're not getting out of Gorgui atm. I'd be willing to include Teague for Bev for the record, I think Pat's a much better fit for what we're doing here.


You do know Beverly is out for year?

Would have to get DJ to opt-in or re-sign next year for them to even play a minute together

And Beverly had micro fracture surgery, it seems like that surgery takes an additional year past the recovery for the player to get back to where they were. Sort of like Pitchers with Tommy John

Good chance Beverly will be a shell of himself next year
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1645 » by minimus » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:41 am

MN7725 wrote:And Beverly had micro fracture surgery, it seems like that surgery takes an additional year past the recovery for the player to get back to where they were. Sort of like Pitchers with Tommy John

Good chance Beverly will be a shell of himself next year


I might be mistaken but Beverly contract has team option next year.
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1646 » by King Malta » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:45 am

MN7725 wrote:
King Malta wrote:Bev and DJ would be great gets for us if possible.

DJ
KAT
Wiggins
Butler
Bev

That team suddenly looks a lot more solid defensively and Taj coming off the bench offers you some additional production there that we're not getting out of Gorgui atm. I'd be willing to include Teague for Bev for the record, I think Pat's a much better fit for what we're doing here.


You do know Beverly is out for year?

Would have to get DJ to opt-in or re-sign next year for them to even play a minute together

And Beverly had micro fracture surgery, it seems like that surgery takes an additional year past the recovery for the player to get back to where they were. Sort of like Pitchers with Tommy John

Good chance Beverly will be a shell of himself next year


I'm well aware he is, at this point I'd be happy to make that trade and have him up and running for next season, giving Tyus some burn for the rest of this, of course you'd be looking for some kind of reassurance from DJ otherwise you wouldn't make the trade at all.

I'm happy to take that risk with Bev, but can understand if someone isnt.
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1647 » by walk with me » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:43 am

Cole and gorgui
for
Mirotic and Lopez

Who says no?
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1648 » by shangrila » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:16 am

I posted a trade on the general board I'd do;

Aldrich, Bazz and a 2nd for Mirotic.

Not sure if Chicago would accept it, especially with Mirotic's hot start since his return. But I think this would add to our shooting while covering us for Bjelica being out and probably allowing him to go to the 3 with Mirotic at the 4 off the bench.
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1649 » by minimus » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:20 am

walk with me wrote:Cole and gorgui
for
Mirotic and Lopez

Who says no?


I like this trade. Mirotic has team option in contract.
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1650 » by Norseman79 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:12 pm

MN Out: Gorgui, Cole, Shabazz, and OKC pick

MN in: George Hill and WCS

Gets Hill out of Sac-town while coming to a winning team, he and Teague can back each other up and even play together. WCS coming in lets KAT kick to PF and adds a better defensive, albeit worse offensive, player to the mix. This also allows Taj to play 2nd unit which would help with bench depth.

The other trade I would look at is Bjellica and Tyus for a 3 point/defensive specialist for bench.
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1651 » by _AIJ_ » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:19 pm

Would you like Kemba Walker on this team?


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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1652 » by walk with me » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:26 pm

Sac not giving up wcs this early unless it’s something they cant refuse

Charlotte isn’t giving up Kemba in a trade unless it’s something they can’t refuse
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1653 » by mplsfonz23 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:48 pm

Streakers33 wrote:They would want more too..
U probably adding okc pick for 2018. And Miami 2019 2nd rounder. And our 2019 second rounder.. Cole, dieng. Shbazz, (Maybe Patton) for Lou and DJ..

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Not so sure I would do this deal for a 50 game rental.

Dieng/Cole is my starting point the only sweetener would be Bazz. He is balling like crap and has fallen out of Thibs rotation. Not even on his radar. Pretty sure he wishes he had of taken that 40 mil right about now. Then it wouldn't matter. Pretty sure he will be playing on one year contracts until he breaks thru or quits. I would think he could make plenty overseas.

I digress, DJ should be coming cheap, some other team is going to get him for scraps, and this place will certainly be wondering why we didn't put a better package together.
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1654 » by AirP. » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:50 pm

walk with me wrote:Cole and gorgui
for
Mirotic and Lopez

Who says no?


Chicago, you'd have to give them assets to take on Dieng's contract, they're not in a position to really utilize a guy like Dieng while rebuilding. Dieng has value with his contract but to non rebuilding teams. I'd think a team like the Clippers would be good with a solid center on a decent contract if they move D.Jordan. I do believe they also liked Aldrich when he was there.
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1655 » by mplsfonz23 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:55 pm

Streakers33 wrote:Winning solves all shrink.. no reason he wouldn’t take 20 mil a year to stay with our culture , even more so in a shrinking big man market.. not many teams can or want to afford him..

and second note.. grow a pair. Minnesota nice is over. Go after players u want to win. View butler trade.. we signed all thibs FA on his list.. if the wolves want DJ .. then go get him.. good teams mix chance with strategy.. all top teams are capped..

With that said.. we are a top four team in the west.. that was our actual goal.. now next is playoffs. Thank god we on that train.. now let’s be a tough out. We ok if we stand pat too.. this team has done enough already for this year..


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But why stand pat if you can improve the team now, and not sacrifice long term?

DJ would be a great short term investment with a free look to see if there is a future for him here. Lets not get too high on being 4th in the west, because it has been a fairly weak year compared to other years. Teams are starting to gel and get better now. A couple of loses and we could be out looking in. I am afraid the longer we wait, the more teams get involved, killing our chances of getting DJ.
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1656 » by shrink » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:01 pm

MN7725 wrote:Wing Depth Trades

Dieng/Aldrich for Matthews/Powell

Dallas gains $11+ mil for tight 2018 FA, can be used to gain picks by taking in salary if not go after FA, tradeoff for taking on Dieng's longer contract but he could be their starter for length of contract.

Wolves get 3/D wing, get off Dieng's problematic long-term $.

Dieng/Matthews isn't new, but usually see Dallas fans not interested in Dieng's contract for rebuilding team, so the Powell-Aldrich contract swap is the incentive, and gain significant $ for when cap space might be most valuable ever, given how few teams will have space (5-6?) and how many are projected in the tax (14-15?).

Powell at least would be a different kind of big with his athleticism and mobility. I'm probably higher on him them most. Similar production as Dieng this season in bench role for past two years


Here's one I haven't see anywhere

Teague to Knicks for Lee, Thomas, O'Quinn. (Bazz or MGH probably have to be included for roster spot)

Bad look for organization to trade recently signed FA, but Knicks would be pretty good situation for Teague (currently starting Jarret freaking Jack).

Lee is $12 mil/yr through '19-20. Age 32-34 years on that contract is worrisome, but he's been durable and would have reduced role
Thomas is $7 mil for '18-19, but guaranteed only $1 mil for '19-20 which is key financially.
O'Quinn is solid and properly paid backup C, player option for $4 mil for 2018-19. Knicks would still have Kanter, Hernangomez, Noah

Its tough to find a fit for Teague where he would be an upgrade, not blocking a young PG, AND get back a quality wing like Lee.

Orlando was other team that had decent wings (Ross/Simmons), but depends on what their new management thinks about Payton, Other than that I couldn't really see any other teams that made sense (if you wanted to trade Teague, I'm on fence despite proposing this)

My thought main though is
1)Butler as primary ball handler>>>Teague, Lee off-ball and defensively fit with Butler>>>Teague
2) Tyus can handle larger role
3) save 2019-20 $, I think it's very likely Teague opts in at age 31

This would allow:
Butler/Tyus/Crawford as the primary ball handler's on offense, and be able to put two solid wing defenders and off-ball shooters in Lee/Matthews with them. Just do not have players like that on the roster now and I believe it is huge liability

Playoffs Switchable-Defense Death Lineup
Butler
Lee
Wig
Matthews
KAT

2018-19 Wolves would be about $7 mil over luxury tax without a Bjelica contract, basically the difference between Aldrich's non-guaranteed and Powell. Assumes Crawford, O'Quinn both opt-in. Stretching Thomas would be an option to save $. It will be difficult for Wolves to avoid lux tax no matter what they do given Wiggins bump and no contracts coming off

But 2019-20 Wolves would be "save" $14 mil from having Lee/Powell instead of Dieng/Teague


This is a really interesting trade, that I hope generates a number of comments.

I know DAL fans have been desperately hoping to get out of Wes' deal, and they were excited that his improved play at the start of the season might finally make that happen ("before he gets injured again!"). I am lukewarm on the idea of using Aldrich for Powell as additional incentive, because I think that adding salary might mean we don't re-sign Bjelica because of the lux.

I think that NYK is a good place for Teague, but I think that I'd want a different package. I think Teague's deal is ok, and I just don't trust that the aging Courtney Lee will have a good contract later. Others disagree,

There's a lot of promise here though, and has novel ideas I really like. Thanks for posting.
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1657 » by shrink » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:12 pm

Recent events have had me re-think trade strategy, and I'm considering two things right now:

SHRINK TRADE TENET 1: Find Gorgui's best home. Gorgui is a decent, and under-rated player in the NBA. His advanced stats are great (he was 62 in the league last year in Win Shares, for example), he does all the little things, works hard, and improves. i believe he would be a starting big man for a quarter or a third of the NBA teams out there. Unfortunately, while contract is not unreasonable, it's off-putting. Gorgui may be getting paid $2-3 mil more than he should, not unlike many players, but the four year deal makes it unfashionable. People don't want their cap to be tied down for four years with a borderline starter, and always believe that they are going to have a bright future, and they can turn cap space into a star.

If MIN wants to have the money without extensive lux taxes to keep Bjelica, they need to trade Dieng instead of Aldrich. Dieng's contract is a poor fit for many teams (including us now), so we need to turn it into something that other teams are more willing to accept. This means finding a team that can get their money's worth starting him, is probably win now, needs a big or soon will, and doesn't have cap space coming up any time soon.

SHRINK TRADE TENET 2: If you trade Aldrich for anything but an expiring, use Bjelica for incentive rather than the OKC 1st. Again, I am very concerned that if we use up Aldrich's expiring, next year we will be too far into the lux for Glen Taylor to outbid other teams to keep Bjelica. We already want to pay him to be a third big, where he may be a starter on some other team, but it'd be extra expensive to pay lux taxes on top of that, especially as little as Thibs uses his bench. Bjelica's great play I think has raised his free agency price, so I am not a big fan any more of using Aldrich's expiring as a way to generate trade value by simply taking on a two year deal.

My first option would be keep Bjelica by moving Dieng to let Aldrich expire. If that doesn't work, then keep the OKC pick over Bjelica, since we can afford the pick going forward.
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1658 » by shrink » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:30 pm

Norseman79 wrote:MN Out: Gorgui, Cole, Shabazz, and OKC pick

MN in: George Hill and WCS

Gets Hill out of Sac-town while coming to a winning team, he and Teague can back each other up and even play together. WCS coming in lets KAT kick to PF and adds a better defensive, albeit worse offensive, player to the mix. This also allows Taj to play 2nd unit which would help with bench depth.

The other trade I would look at is Bjellica and Tyus for a 3 point/defensive specialist for bench.

Hill has actually been doing better lately in SAC, despite an emptional flare up last week. If he can stay healthy, he is a better fit than Teague here, and can play some 2. SAC also isn't as high on WCS as they once were, because his development hasn't been fast enough to give them confidence that they know how much to offer for his next contract.

Having said all at, I don't think that's enough value for SAC. I think Teague would have to be in the deal, though SAC fans claim that Fox's back up is better than Fox. My guess is that you just have to have players to hope for.
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1659 » by shrink » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:34 pm

ALICEinJAM wrote:Would you like Kemba Walker on this team?

Kemba is fantastic, and statistically, he probably should have made all NBA last year. He also got the Sportsmanship award last yeat. He is highly under-rated, because it's such a boom time for PG's in the NBA right now. Oh, and he's only $12 mil a year, for two years. I'd love to have him.

I just don't think we can add up enough assets to get him.

EDIT: hmm... I know the Hornets would love to get out of that giant Batum contract, especially with his elbow injury. This is big and gross, and even seems like an overpay

Teague, Dieng, Aldrich, Bjelica, Patton, OKC 1st for Kemba, Batum (4 x $25), Dwight Howard (2 x $23)
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Re: Trade talk 2017-18 

Post#1660 » by post0115 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:51 pm

How about this Dal/MN Trade?

MN Gets: Wes Mathews, Nerlens Noel, and Jeff Withey
MN Gives: Dieng, Aldrich, and Shabazz

Gets us Mathews for wing depth who also gives us some 3 and D (fellow Marquette player to go with Butler). Get a flyer on Noel to see if he can turn things around with us. Should help playing alongside Kat and Taj. Withey is essentially a cheaper Aldrich.

Dallas gets a look at Shabazz while getting a longtime starting 5 which they at one time thought Noel could be. Dieng would do well alongside Dirk for a year or two and be long term starter for them.

Fresh starts for both Shabazz and Noel who both are in desperate need especially after both look foolish for turning down recent extension offers.

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