The Andrew Wiggins Thread #2: Electric Boogaloo

[Vindicater]

Still on the bandwagn for Wiggins and Towns.

Both under 23 and leading a team towards the playoffs.

[vagelis]

Wiggins is not a 3&D player.
It is a big mistake if you throw Wiggins in the corner and wait from him to hit catch and shoot threes.
Wiggins is a sg and needs to get the ball in his hands in order to use his athleticism to attack to the basket or create his shot.
It seems that they are trying to develop things in him that are not his strengths and forget to use and develop his strengths. Where are the in your face dunks this year? Where are the drives and the attacking mode?
If you play a player out of his strengths you will not have the best results and that affects his self confidence. Wiggins is not a bad shooter but it seems that this year he has not the self confinsence to shoot the ball.
A coach is also responsible to give confidense to the players and that is not happening yelling from the bench the whole time of the game.
Kris Dunn is an example of how bad coaching can make a talented player look like a scrub and how good coaching can transform him to the new team's favorite player.

[Zeitgeister]

Wiggins gets loads of opportunities to attack the basket every game but he would rather pull up for 20 footers off the dribble.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Wiggs needs to attack the rim when his shot is off. He's got great percentages at the rim, he should be there more often.

He settles for too many long 2's.

[walk with me]

Can someone break down Wiggins over like the past 10 games for me?

I checked some of his stats quickly on my espn fantasy team for the last 2 weeks and he’s abysmal.

Shooting like 35% from the field
Averaging 2 rebounds and 1 assist
With 16 points

It’s pretty bad considering he’s a max scale player.

I could probably name 20 SGs id take over him right now.

[minimus]

I hope Wiggins today will destroy our old enemies Dame, McCollum and Co.

[Neal25]

Wiggins is repeating the performance of the last season. Great beginning to after slump in his game. This year looked like that he could break as star player but doubts have come back. It is his fourth season and his credit is running out, he is 22 years old yet but the excuse of the age will run out as well. On defense 1vs1 he is great but he is lost in helps and has a poor defense basketball IQ like Towns. I hoped that his selection of shots would improve to take less shots with the presence of Butler but he goes on taking bad shots. I go on trust in him but the patience will peter out some day if he carry on without get more skills to his game earning a max contract the next year.

[walk with me]

Andrew Wiggins or Ricky Davis?

[AirP.]

Kris Dunn is an example of how bad coaching can make a talented player look like a scrub and how good coaching can transform him to the new team's favorite player.

He couldn't shoot and he was a rookie who wasn't use to the speed of the NBA game... had Rubio and T.Jones in front of him. Dunn worked on his shot all season and now is on a team that really doesn't care about winning now. It has very little to do with coaching, it has a ton to do with the player's mentality, working on their game and the situation they're in. Thibs had tried to move Rubio for a year to make room for Dunn and Jones to get more time but nobody would give him a 1st round pick and expiring contract till Utah did it. It's why you heard of the Rose for Rubio trade at the deadline. Thibs was TRYING to not tank Rubio's value but absolutely wanted to move him to give his young guys minutes since Minnesota really didn't have a shot at the playoffs. This year is different, they're not only playing for the playoffs but for seeding/home court advantage.

By the way... on the Chicago board most hated Dunn and didn't want him(even up to a few weeks ago). So many fans don't look at actual talent or even situation, they just look at short term results to decide if someone is good.

Wed Jun 28, 2017

Once Dunn gets minutes he'll get use to the speed of the game and his confidence will rise which will allow him to show what type of player he really is. The trade will look much better in a few years, especially after Chicago adds a top 4 pick next year.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1583090&start=300#start_here

Mon Nov 13, 2017

One big positive with Dunn so far this year is that he's shooting the ball about twice the rate he did in Minnesota and his 2pt% has went from 40% with Minnesota to just under 48% with Chicago, that's a pretty solid increase. Just start him and treat this year as his rookie year and expect better play from him later in the season.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1583090&start=380#start_here

Tue Nov 28, 2017

The PGs in Minnesota all took 9 or less shots per36 last year, that was their roles.

I've noted before that for a start in Minnesota, Dunn hit 2 3s in the first 2 or 3 possessions and didn't get another shot till nearly the end of the quarter. Last year Dunn didn't get to really get use to the speed of the game on the offensive end. The way he attacked the basket for layups looked like he was completely unaware of how fast defenders were in the league. Give him a year of having the green light to shoot anytime(since Chicago is tanking) and then next year reel his shot attempts in and hopefully he'll be a much more efficient player with him knowing what he can and can't do.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1583090&start=660#start_here

Just had to be coaching.... nope. It's all about the players and their situation. Wiggins has been given the green light for multiple years and he's still the same player... that's a HUGE red flag unless you're happy at his level of play for the max.

[vagelis]

Kris Dunn is an example of how bad coaching can make a talented player look like a scrub and how good coaching can transform him to the new team's favorite player.

He couldn't shoot and he was a rookie who wasn't use to the speed of the NBA game... had Rubio and T.Jones in front of him. Dunn worked on his shot all season and now is on a team that really doesn't care about winning now. It has very little to do with coaching, it has a ton to do with the player's mentality, working on their game and the situation they're in. Thibs had tried to move Rubio for a year to make room for Dunn and Jones to get more time but nobody would give him a 1st round pick and expiring contract till Utah did it. It's why you heard of the Rose for Rubio trade at the deadline. Thibs was TRYING to not tank Rubio's value but absolutely wanted to move him to give his young guys minutes since Minnesota really didn't have a shot at the playoffs. This year is different, they're not only playing for the playoffs but for seeding/home court advantage.

By the way... on the Chicago board most hated Dunn and didn't want him(even up to a few weeks ago). So many fans don't look at actual talent or even situation, they just look at results to decide if someone is good.

Wed Jun 28, 2017

Once Dunn gets minutes he'll get use to the speed of the game and his confidence will rise which will allow him to show what type of player he really is. The trade will look much better in a few years, especially after Chicago adds a top 4 pick next year.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1583090&start=300#start_here

Mon Nov 13, 2017

One big positive with Dunn so far this year is that he's shooting the ball about twice the rate he did in Minnesota and his 2pt% has went from 40% with Minnesota to just under 48% with Chicago, that's a pretty solid increase. Just start him and treat this year as his rookie year and expect better play from him later in the season.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1583090&start=380#start_here

Tue Nov 28, 2017

The PGs in Minnesota all took 9 or less shots per36 last year, that was their roles.

I've noted before that for a start in Minnesota, Dunn hit 2 3s in the first 2 or 3 possessions and didn't get another shot till nearly the end of the quarter. Last year Dunn didn't get to really get use to the speed of the game on the offensive end. The way he attacked the basket for layups looked like he was completely unaware of how fast defenders were in the league. Give him a year of having the green light to shoot anytime(since Chicago is tanking) and then next year reel his shot attempts in and hopefully he'll be a much more efficient player with him knowing what he can and can't do.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1583090&start=660#start_here

Just had to be coaching.... nope. It's all about the players and their situation. Wiggins has been given the green light for multiple years and he's still the same player... that's a HUGE red flag unless you're happy at his level of play for the max.

I have to admit that you are one of the very few timberwolves fans that you saw something more than stats in the case of Dunn.
One other that I remember was Klomp and me who some fans here thought that I am crazy saying that he has all the tools to become a leader in the pg position.
It is really very bad if you have a player like Dunn in your team and you think that he is scrub. That means that you cannot recognize the talent of a player and you cannot see anything except stats.

In the case of Wiggins we disagree. I think that this year happens the same thing with him with what happened with Dunn the previous year. He has no self confidence and he is not free to play his game. We have seen the previous year what Wiggins is capable to do.
When he had the green light he averaged 23.6ppg and had multiple in your face dunks over the centers of the league.

The fans of the team thought that Dunn was a scrub, that Lavine was an idiot, that Towns is overrated, that Wiggins is mediocre.
Personally I think that all of these players are special talents with some flaws in their games.
You need a coach to let them play their games and not screaming and yelling all the time.
We are talking about nba players you need to give them confidence and good systems and just let them play their games.

[AirP.]

In the case of Wiggins we disagree. I think that this year happens the same thing with him with what happened with Dunn the previous year. He has no self confidence and he is not free to play his game. We have seen the previous year what Wiggins is capable to do.
When he had the green light he averaged 23.6ppg and had multiple in your face dunks over the centers of the league.

We absolutely disagree, while you thought last year was a success because of the 23.6 ppg, I look at his efficiency and see 23.6 points that if his minutes were distributed to average players would have equaled the same amount of points and probably more rebounds, assists and probably better defense which would have all equaled a much better season for the Timberwolves. All he does is get FGA and usually makes them at the league efficiency level. That's not good if a team wants to win... and he's doing everything other then shooting the ball at the same pace.

This year... if you could get Wiggins to not take contested(even the 1 dribble pull up) mid range jumpers, meaning VALUE a possession which he absolutely does not do, this team is an even better offensive team and possibly in 3rd place in the West, even with all their other faults. It possibly would be one thing if he were the lone offensive player on the team, but he has Butler, Towns, Teague and Crawford, he shouldn't be taking that horrible pullup long 2. I sure wish I had the stats of how many of his shots are offensively rebounded and also how long Timberwolve offensive possessions are on average when he shoots the ball. Offense should be the side of the ball your team can rest some, but not when you're jacking up shots earlier then you have to.

The fans of the team thought that Dunn was a scrub, that Lavine was an idiot, that Towns is overrated, that Wiggins is mediocre.
Personally I think that all of these players are special talents with some flaws in their games.
You need a coach to let them play their games and not screaming and yelling all the time.
We are talking about nba players you need to give them confidence and good systems and just let them play their games.

I think LaVine was going to be the better player between him and Wiggins, if he comes back 95% of what he was, I think he'll end up having a better career then Wiggins because of his outside shooting(which makes him more efficient) and he passes more. Towns is a special offensive talent that is a huge negative on defense at this point(and maybe for his whole career) and Dunn, he just was a rookie with the right mindset who was held back because of the situation. T.Jones being a 2nd year player(although younger) was better prepared to play then Dunn last year.

[Vindicater]

Andrew Wiggins or Ricky Davis?

Wiggins by a country mile.

[Bolts]

Thibs and Teague are ruining Wiggins. I loved his post ups in the lane he used to do. Stick him in the corner away from the offense and ignore him. I’d be pissed. Teague doesn’t throw to him even if he is open. Teague is a bad pg.

[Nitroglycerin]

Thibs and Teague are ruining Wiggins. I loved his post ups in the lane he used to do. Stick him in the corner away from the offense and ignore him. I’d be pissed. Teague doesn’t throw to him even if he is open. Teague is a bad pg.

I think the post Wiggins play was designed by Flip to hide Wiggins' poor ball handling.

He still has it but he needs to improve his ball handling. So going away from that is not that bad.

[walk with me]

Guys I know that this may sound crazy and people may ignore it but the Andrew Wiggins max contract is extremely invaluable in a way that many don’t think about.

The nba in this current era is unique in that fans are a little less patient to “be good” and players are more encouraged to run towards greener pastures.

We’ve signed Wiggins to what seems like a crazy contract but the golden lining in that crazy contract is we would easily be able to flip the contract to a team looking to pull the plug for their star that it “didn’t work with”. Here are a few ideas to illustrate the type of deals I’m talking about.


Wiggins for Damian Lillard
Wiggins for CJ Macullum
Wiggins for Demarcus Cousins
Wiggins for Devin booker
Wiggins for John wall

Now before you call some of these exchanges crazy and dismiss what I’m saying. Think about some of the trades we’ve had over the past 5 - 7 years.

Dwight Howard, Boogie Cousins, Kyrie Irving, Paul George, Carmelo Anthony, Cp3, Kevin Love, James Harden, Jimmy Butler all got moved in ways that seemed improbable or one sided. Over the next 2-4 years you can expect that some GREAT players WILL GET DISGRUNTLED and when they do we have JUST THE PLAYER that would be great for a failing franchise.


It could be the type of ground shaking move that establishes the wolves as a finals contender. It wouldn’t be the first time it happens and it certainly wouldn’t be the last.

Edit: Wiggins contract is quietly one of the most valuable assets in the league considering his age. The only thing more valuable would be multiple lotto picks ala BK nets to Boston Celtics, which probably would never happen again. Given Wiggins age, any competent GM could easily sell the “he needs a second chance”. Wiggins is 3 years from being 26 which is majority nba players prime. That means Wiggins has a 3 year window of being a great asset in return for a tanking franchise.

[Narf]

I think it's funny that Wiggins is a year younger than Dunn and people are talking about Wiggins potential capping out and Dunn's potential just starting.

Ah well. When Wiggins is 24 we'll see if he's worth his contract.

[AirP.]

I think it's funny that Wiggins is a year younger than Dunn and people are talking about Wiggins potential capping out and Dunn's potential just starting.

Ah well. When Wiggins is 24 we'll see if he's worth his contract.

What? You get that players who are Wiggins' age seem to get better whether it's in the NBA or in college? You can see progression with Dunn. You can tell Dunn really worked hard on his shot.

Wiggins still puts up numbers the same way he did his rookie year, just with more FGA. He's not growing as a player, this is why people are so down on Wiggins. He's got incredible athletic ability and quickness and after 3 1/2 years he still hasn't figured out how to utilize that to his advantage to make him a better then average player. It would be great for the Timberwolves if it just came to him and he realized his potential, but why would it come in offseason 4 or 5 if progressing didn't really come in the first 3 offseason given the minutes and the green light he's had since stepping into the NBA?

[Klomp]

I would be more alarmed about Wiggins if he was doing it in the same role. He's adjusting to a new role as a lesser part of the offense...I never expected him to put up better numbers.

[AirP.]

I would be more alarmed about Wiggins if he was doing it in the same role. He's adjusting to a new role as a lesser part of the offense...I never expected him to put up better numbers.

I expect a player like Wiggins to have more rebounds, cause more chaos on the defensive end, get 3-3.5 assists, even with that, that would be hard to justify a max contract with. Wiggins just lacks the motor to be a max player value even though he has most of the attributes to become one. He'll be overpaid this whole new contract, even if he was the #1 option.

[minimus]

I would be more alarmed about Wiggins if he was doing it in the same role. He's adjusting to a new role as a lesser part of the offense...I never expected him to put up better numbers.

I expect a player like Wiggins to have more rebounds, cause more chaos on the defensive end, get 3-3.5 assists, even with that, that would be hard to justify a max contract with. Wiggins just lacks the motor to be a max player value even though he has most of the attributes to become one. He'll be overpaid this whole new contract, even if he was the #1 option.

Look at POR or HOU or SAS or BOS or GSW. Their best players plays within same systems for year. McCollum + Dame as high scoring backcourt, Harden as PG with other gunners, BOS with Irving in place of IT4 as main scorer, even SAS had some issues to fit LMA. What was Wiggins role last year and what is his role this year? Also this year he delivered some good defense in clutch. I'll take that as progress as well.