The Jeff Teague Era !

[AirP.]

Teague is still better than Rubio. He just may be too talented to be the 4th option on this team.

lol. You are too talented for this board

He's not wrong, Teague's an offensive PG who isn't getting to play towards his strength because of higher options. We all know he's not a great defender, he can create alright but those are things he had with Rubio(and frankly Rubio is much better in those areas), the strength of Teague was his ability to score and with a lineup that had Towns, Butler and Wiggins, Teague didn't take shots/attack like he needed to throughout the season and he was very hesitant many times instead of just trying to score.

It would be really interesting what Thibs really wanted to do with this lineup, there were just too many scorers who needed to be satisfied with FGA. Honestly all the scorers in the starting lineup sacrificed for the team. Crawford gunned up shots at a higher pace with the fewer minutes he played.

[Killboard]

Teague is still better than Rubio. He just may be too talented to be the 4th option on this team.

lol. You are too talented for this board

He's not wrong, Teague's an offensive PG who isn't getting to play towards his strength because of higher options. We all know he's not a great defender, he can create alright but those are things he had with Rubio(and frankly Rubio is much better in those areas), the strength of Teague was his ability to score and with a lineup that had Towns, Butler and Wiggins, Teague didn't take shots/attack like he needed to throughout the season and he was very hesitant many times instead of just trying to score.

It would be really interesting what Thibs really wanted to do with this lineup, there were just too many scorers who needed to be satisfied with FGA. Honestly all the scorers in the starting lineup sacrificed for the team. Crawford gunned up shots at a higher pace with the fewer minutes he played.

So, why he didnt play Tyus more with the starters and Teague with a bench of good defenders instead of bring 2 gunners to play along Tyus? You have talked in previous posts about Teague going up in the ladder of options if Wiggins went out. So, it seems like Thibs was preparing for Wiggins failure even before to put him in favorable position to succeed. Do you remember point Wiggins the first half of the last season? It fits the same mold.

[AirP.]

lol. You are too talented for this board

He's not wrong, Teague's an offensive PG who isn't getting to play towards his strength because of higher options. We all know he's not a great defender, he can create alright but those are things he had with Rubio(and frankly Rubio is much better in those areas), the strength of Teague was his ability to score and with a lineup that had Towns, Butler and Wiggins, Teague didn't take shots/attack like he needed to throughout the season and he was very hesitant many times instead of just trying to score.

It would be really interesting what Thibs really wanted to do with this lineup, there were just too many scorers who needed to be satisfied with FGA. Honestly all the scorers in the starting lineup sacrificed for the team. Crawford gunned up shots at a higher pace with the fewer minutes he played.

So, why he didnt play Tyus more with the starters and Teague with a bench of good defenders instead of bring 2 gunners to play along Tyus? You have talked in previous posts about Teague going up in the ladder of options if Wiggins went out. So, it seems like Thibs was preparing for Wiggins failure even before to put him in favorable position to succeed. Do you remember point Wiggins the first half of the last season? It fits the same mold.

I don't think Thibs really likes to stagger lineups unless he feels he really needs to plus he really seems to believe in chemistry. This year's bench was so bad he ended up trying a lot more combinations than I've remembered him ever doing(I could be wrong).

Nobody but Thibs will know what he's thinking long term. He signed Teague for a good amount so I'm expecting he wanted him here long term, if this is the case he's going to keep Teague with the starters as much as possible for future chemistry(learning how to play with the starters).

On Wiggins, once Butler was brought there was no way to put Wiggins in a position to succeed. We can probably all agree that if you're trying to put Wiggins in the most favorable position you're going to bring in an outside shooter opposite of him on the wing, it not only opens up the lane to allow Wiggins to drive more but also gives him more spacing in the low post, bringing in Butler is nearly the worst type of wing you could have with Wiggins on the offensive end, a ball dominate playmaker(scorer, distributor).

When Butler was signed I immediately figured Wiggins would not be on the opening day roster in 2018(he and Butler just aren't a good match and the huge need for outside shooting), the addition of Teague furthered my thoughts on Wiggins not being in the long term plans of Thibs. People keep talking about how Thibs was happy with Wiggins, he smiles when talking about him. The Thibs I know, if he had a shot at getting a (this is really key)PROVEN young talent like Kyrie he would have went after him and we would have heard it(we heard all about him going after Butler for 2 seasons), Butler(and Towns) went to the FO(Thibs) to try to get Kyrie and yet nothing was heard about Minnesota going after him(Taylor not willing to sign off on any Wiggins trade). The only thing that really throws off my thoughts on Wiggins being moved this summer is that you really can't do that without knowing Butler is here long term(sign an extension), if Butler were to walk you'd have to retain Wiggins and hope that one day gets it.

[Killboard]

So, why he didnt play Tyus more with the starters and Teague with a bench of good defenders instead of bring 2 gunners to play along Tyus? You have talked in previous posts about Teague going up in the ladder of options if Wiggins went out. So, it seems like Thibs was preparing for Wiggins failure even before to put him in favorable position to succeed. Do you remember point Wiggins the first half of the last season? It fits the same mold.

I don't think Thibs really likes to stagger lineups unless he feels he really needs to plus he really seems to believe in chemistry. This year's bench was so bad he ended up trying a lot more combinations than I've remembered him ever doing(I could be wrong).

The bench was builded (and deprioritized) by him. Even when 2 offseasons is not enough time to have a top tier bench, the resources werent used well enough. He should take responsabilities for that. They still having good role players as Bjelica, Tyus and Dieng. They are well good by advanced metrics (G salary is another history, but I dont think he is worse than last year, just played a lot less).

Nobody but Thibs will know what he's thinking long term. He signed Teague for a good amount so I'm expecting he wanted him here long term, if this is the case he's going to keep Teague with the starters as much as possible for future chemistry(learning how to play with the starters).

Obviously nobody will know what in his head, we are trying to read his thoughts here based on his moves as GM and Coach. As for the time of future chemistry with the starters, you need chemistry developing in the 2nd unit too (and that doesnt restrict to hockey lineups, but achieve good sinergy by mixing up if it is neccesary).

If you starters lead by 15 in 8 minutes of play, and your bench lose the lead in 4 is the same than going 0 with the starters and 0 with the bench. You could be said that starters matters more in end game situations or playoffs, and I can say play your bench give you more value to your assets. You need to find a balance between both.

On Wiggins, once Butler was brought there was no way to put Wiggins in a position to succeed. We can probably all agree that if you're trying to put Wiggins in the most favorable position you're going to bring in an outside shooter opposite of him on the wing, it not only opens up the lane to allow Wiggins to drive more but also gives him more spacing in the low post, bringing in Butler is nearly the worst type of wing you could have with Wiggins on the offensive end, a ball dominate playmaker(scorer, distributor).

Butler is a good playmaker, a good cutter, a good shooter and a elite defender. He is an all-nba caliber player and verstaile enough
to be sucesful in several ways. I dont think he is detrimental to Wiggins by any means. Towns and Teague (or Rubio) are good enough shooters/playmakers to have an elite offense. Taj or Dieng in the other hand will bring another defender to the paint every posession. That's why having both doesnt make sense. Bjelica is the alternative and I though he should have played more, even when the team didnt look for him enough. He is a downgrade on defense but still competent. Teague was a downgrade on defense (still competent),Crawford was a blackhole and Patton was a non factor. In overall we didnt move the needle on defense even with Taj being here despite spending 25% of the cap and a mid 1st draft pick.

When Butler was signed I immediately figured Wiggins would not be on the opening day roster in 2018(he and Butler just aren't a good match and the huge need for outside shooting), the addition of Teague furthered my thoughts on Wiggins not being in the long term plans of Thibs. People keep talking about how Thibs was happy with Wiggins, he smiles when talking about him. The Thibs I know, if he had a shot at getting a (this is really key)PROVEN young talent like Kyrie he would have went after him and we would have heard it(we heard all about him going after Butler for 2 seasons), Butler(and Towns) went to the FO(Thibs) to try to get Kyrie and yet nothing was heard about Minnesota going after him(Taylor not willing to sign off on any Wiggins trade). The only thing that really throws off my thoughts on Wiggins being moved this summer is that you really can't do that without knowing Butler is here long term(sign an extension), if Butler were to walk you'd have to retain Wiggins and hope that one day gets it.

Wiggins for Irving would have been an steal. I dont think that type of offer will be in the table anytime close if you dont put Wiggins in a position to succeed. And if he succeed you could as well keep him.

Which I dont think is smart is trying to dump Wiggins for bad contracts, you will be in a similar financial position without as many upside. As I said before, if max Wiggins was Taylor call Thibs should try to mitigate the damage helping him to succeed and have a plab B, which would have been prioritizing a wing backup last offseason via free agency or draft.

[AirP.]

The bench was builded (and deprioritized) by him. Even when 2 offseasons is not enough time to have a top tier bench, the resources werent used well enough. He should take responsabilities for that. They still having good role players as Bjelica, Tyus and Dieng. They are well good by advanced metrics (G salary is another history, but I dont think he is worse than last year, just played a lot less).

I'm fine with that argument, I don't agree but I see the logic with it.

Obviously nobody will know what in his head, we are trying to read his thoughts here based on his moves as GM and Coach. As for the time of future chemistry with the starters, you need chemistry developing in the 2nd unit too (and that doesnt restrict to hockey lineups, but achieve good sinergy by mixing up if it is neccesary).

If you starters lead by 15 in 8 minutes of play, and your bench lose the lead in 4 is the same than going 0 with the starters and 0 with the bench. You could be said that starters matters more in end game situations or playoffs, and I can say play your bench give you more value to your assets. You need to find a balance between both.

I think if the bench was just decent it would have been much different but the bench was horrendous(one of the worst I've ever seen) and a lot of that can be pointed at Crawford which Thibs signed(HORRIBLE SIGNING), I know it was a hail mary type signing but wow, Crawford was bad and Thibs put the team in a very bad position because of it.

Butler is a good playmaker, a good cutter, a good shooter and a elite defender. He is an all-nba caliber player and verstaile enough
to be sucesful in several ways. I dont think he is detrimental to Wiggins by any means.

Are you trying to convince anyone that a catch and shoot 3 & D guy wouldn't have enhanced Wiggins' way more then then Butler's game? You're really reaching there. I just watched about the same type of team (Chicago last year) not have success with 2 wings in the mold of Butler and Wiggins(Butler and Wade). Chicago didn't look like they were going to make the playoffs till Wade went down(they actually traded Taj because they didn't expect to make the playoffs) and a much worse overall player(P.Zipser) replaced Wade but gave the team and Butler what they needed to be successful, more defense and an outside 3pt threat to open up the offense, Chicago went on a run because of it and made the playoffs.

Towns and Teague (or Rubio) are good enough shooters/playmakers to have an elite offense. Taj or Dieng in the other hand will bring another defender to the paint every posession. That's why having both doesnt make sense. Bjelica is the alternative and I though he should have played more, even when the team didnt look for him enough. He is a downgrade on defense but still competent. Teague was a downgrade on defense (still competent),Crawford was a blackhole and Patton was a non factor. In overall we didnt move the needle on defense even with Taj being here despite spending 25% of the cap and a mid 1st draft pick.

Rubio is being more successful because he has probably the best best rim protectors in the game, a bunch of 3pt shooting around him and a young player(Mitchell) who gives effort and plays like he wants to win every single game.

We can have the Bjelica argument if you want, I don't think he's all that good, maybe solid but not really all that good overall plus isn't he almost 30 now? If Towns was a decent defensive center I think we would have seen more of Bjelica but with how terrible Towns was most of the season defensively, you just couldn't have Bjelica out there at PF. Bjelica as SF, didn't think he could stay with other SFs defensively. DEFENSE is where this team was lacking at, not offense. Had the defense been just a little better this team would have won way more games.

Wiggins for Irving would have been an steal. I dont think that type of offer will be in the table anytime close if you dont put Wiggins in a position to succeed. And if he succeed you could as well keep him.

It sounds like you'd rather see Wiggins have success rather than the team. Thibs put better players around Wiggins and he became WORSE, way less efficient while basically everyone not named Wiggins or Crawford(2 guys who chuck a lot of bad shots) became more efficient.

Which I dont think is smart is trying to dump Wiggins for bad contracts, you will be in a similar financial position without as many upside. As I said before, if max Wiggins was Taylor call Thibs should try to mitigate the damage helping him to succeed and have a plab B, which would have been prioritizing a wing backup last offseason via free agency or draft.

I don't think Wiggins will ever be the player his body/athletic ability could be, that said, I don't advocate dumping Wiggins for bad contracts, I'd rather roll the dice on Wiggins getting somewhat better or playing away from his weaknesses. I don't know how many times I have to say this but even at the max, Wiggins has value, especially to certain types of teams(most which are rebuilding). For example, why wouldn't Dallas be interested in a Barnes for Wiggins swap and then build around 2 highly athletic players(DSJ and Wiggins), have them run while putting some 3pt shooters around them(already have Curry) and a rim protector(retain Noel), that would be a pretty good young team and a couple more high picks might make them a dangerous team. Miami could possibly turn Wiggins around with their strict rules, maybe MJ wants to take a chance on Wiggins' talent and hopes he can influence him. There's a lot of possible moves out there with Wiggins that could help Minnesota greatly next year.

[Killboard]

I think if the bench was just decent it would have been much different but the bench was horrendous(one of the worst I've ever seen) and a lot of that can be pointed at Crawford which Thibs signed(HORRIBLE SIGNING), I know it was a hail mary type signing but wow, Crawford was bad and Thibs put the team in a very bad position because of it.

You are acting like was any other than Thibs who planned this bench. And not only Crawford was bad, he was given a TON of minutes.

Are you trying to convince anyone that a catch and shoot 3 & D guy wouldn't have enhanced Wiggins' way more then then Butler's game? You're really reaching there. I just watched about the same type of team (Chicago last year) not have success with 2 wings in the mold of Butler and Wiggins(Butler and Wade). Chicago didn't look like they were going to make the playoffs till Wade went down(they actually traded Taj because they didn't expect to make the playoffs) and a much worse overall player(P.Zipser) replaced Wade but gave the team and Butler what they needed to be successful, more defense and an outside 3pt threat to open up the offense, Chicago went on a run because of it and made the playoffs.

Better fit and a lot cheaper? Probably(cheaper for sure). But Thibs had money to sign one of those the last offseason. And he would have helped Wiggins too when Butler rests. Maybe you are wasting resources but if it was Taylor call you have to live with it.

Rubio is being more successful because he has probably the best best rim protectors in the game, a bunch of 3pt shooting around him and a young player(Mitchell) who gives effort and plays like he wants to win every single game.

Rubio already lead 2 elites offensive lineups in his past here. He needs the ball in his hands though which forces the defense to gravitate towards him. The good thing about Rubio is that even with his shot not being great he will pick defenses apart with his vision and rewards off ball movement (which Butler is great at).

We can have the Bjelica argument if you want, I don't think he's all that good, maybe solid but not really all that good overall plus isn't he almost 30 now? If Towns was a decent defensive center I think we would have seen more of Bjelica but with how terrible Towns was most of the season defensively, you just couldn't have Bjelica out there at PF. Bjelica as SF, didn't think he could stay with other SFs defensively. DEFENSE is where this team was lacking at, not offense. Had the defense been just a little better this team would have won way more games.

We had the same discussion recently. When defense is a priority you dont trade Rubio+3&D for Teague+Crawford. The spacing generated by Teague limited improvement shooting from outside is negated for Taj/Dieng being in the paint(and not only his defender will be more suited to defend the paint than a PG defender sagging off of Rubio, but Rubio is a lot better than Taj shooting 3's). If you have better defenders who can navigate through screens in the perimeter and takes charges, maybe the bigs shouldnt be exposed so much.

It sounds like you'd rather see Wiggins have success rather than the team. Thibs put better players around Wiggins and he became WORSE, way less efficient while basically everyone not named Wiggins or Crawford(2 guys who chuck a lot of bad shots) became more efficient.

Im kind of neutral on Wiggins. I think he is a cool guy, but doesnt deserve the max and he would be following a very uncommon curve of development if he finally pans out(which I dont think will happen but could still). Which Im sure is that once maxed, you build your team around him and no the other way around.

I don't think Wiggins will ever be the player his body/athletic ability could be, that said, I don't advocate dumping Wiggins for bad contracts, I'd rather roll the dice on Wiggins getting somewhat better or playing away from his weaknesses. I don't know how many times I have to say this but even at the max, Wiggins has value, especially to certain types of teams(most which are rebuilding). For example, why wouldn't Dallas be interested in a Barnes for Wiggins swap and then build around 2 highly athletic players(DSJ and Wiggins), have them run while putting some 3pt shooters around them(already have Curry) and a rim protector(retain Noel), that would be a pretty good young team and a couple more high picks might make them a dangerous team. Miami could possibly turn Wiggins around with their strict rules, maybe MJ wants to take a chance on Wiggins' talent and hopes he can influence him. There's a lot of possible moves out there with Wiggins that could help Minnesota greatly next year.

Barnes,Batum or Whiteside are bad contracts. They could be more helpful than Wiggins but they doesnt have the upside.

[SBM]

Tyus isn't the answer to any question related to TWolves basketball.

[jmoy]

Tyus isn't the answer to any question related to TWolves basketball.

Not even "What players was drafted 24th overall in the 2015 draft"? I could think of more if you like?

Now, if you are talking about where he fits into the Twolves future plans, I think not being a part is wrong, but not being a large part is not.

[PharmD]

Teague is still better than Rubio. He just may be too talented to be the 4th option on this team.

lol. You are too talented for this board

He's not wrong, Teague's an offensive PG who isn't getting to play towards his strength because of higher options. We all know he's not a great defender, he can create alright but those are things he had with Rubio(and frankly Rubio is much better in those areas), the strength of Teague was his ability to score and with a lineup that had Towns, Butler and Wiggins, Teague didn't take shots/attack like he needed to throughout the season and he was very hesitant many times instead of just trying to score.

It would be really interesting what Thibs really wanted to do with this lineup, there were just too many scorers who needed to be satisfied with FGA. Honestly all the scorers in the starting lineup sacrificed for the team. Crawford gunned up shots at a higher pace with the fewer minutes he played.

yeah. I think Teague is a rhythm player that didn't have enough shots in our offense to be effective. I didn't really anticipate that.

Coming from Rubio, he's a gigantic downgrade defensively and a clear downgrade in creation (ENTRY PASSES!!) so his ability to space and score needed to be terrific to justify the move/cap space. He averaged 13ppg and scored >25 points just once (30 on 1/22).

[Vindicater]

Think he will be better next season. I am unsure if backed up by the data but his second half of the season to me was an improvement on his first half.

[Killboard]

Tyus isn't the answer to any question related to TWolves basketball.

Not even "What players was drafted 24th overall in the 2015 draft"? I could think of more if you like?

Now, if you are talking about where he fits into the Twolves future plans, I think not being a part is wrong, but not being a large part is not.

Was Derek Fisher a big part of Lakers 5 championships between 2000 and 2010? I think so, even when he wasnt the 4th or 5th best player in those teams.

[shrink]

Tyus isn't the answer to any question related to TWolves basketball.

Not even "What players was drafted 24th overall in the 2015 draft"? I could think of more if you like?

Now, if you are talking about where he fits into the Twolves future plans, I think not being a part is wrong, but not being a large part is not.

I think it depends on the price, and who is on the team.

Last year, the highest 5-man net rating for any team was Towns-Taj-Jimmy-Wiggins ... And Tyus. His RPM was in the top 6 for PG's, which is astounding Considering today's PGs.

Tyus is eligible this summer for an extension, just like KAT. Towns will get his, but Tyus will only be offered one comensurate with back up money. If he takes that deal, or a similar one at the end of next year, he will be back. He could even remain heir-apparent to Teague, because with three max deal players, MIN only needs cheap competance from it's starting PG. that could be a good contract because Tyus is young and keeps getting better