Synergy between young and old

[PuppyBite]

How deep does Minnesota's rotation even go? If 2017 turns out to be a deep draft, then it's sad that some of that youth isn't at the end of the bench. Where does development come from? My point would be where is Minnesota's "Draymond Green"? Where are the old sending their synergy? KAT and Wiggins are a given. It's impressive when you steal from the draft.

[Klomp]

Well, if they were better 3pt shooters maybe but both of those player's value drops dramatically when the ball isn't in their hands. Chicago fans just watched a similar situation last year with Butler and Wade.

There are a couple of reasons why I believe this will work better than people give the guys credit for.

The two duos Butler and Wiggins are most often compared to are the ones they were a part of last season: Wade/Butler and LaVine/Wiggins. In both cases, people cite the ball dominance of each player in the duo as evidence for why it can't work, as well as the lack of spacing that was seen, especially in Chicago.

The flaw in the lack of spacing is that we're not talking a career 30% 3-point shooter as the third perimeter guy like Rondo was. Jeff Teague is a career 35% 3-point shooter.

As for the ball dominance often discussed with Wiggins and LaVine last year and Wiggins not being great without the ball, Wiggins is going from a teammate with a 12.6 assist percentage to one who had a 24.8 assist percentage last year. Butler is not a ballhog. And that gap isn't made up in the switch from Rubio to Teague either, as that was just a drop from 38.9 to 36.4. There will be plenty of ball movement.

And finally, to the notion that the Chicago wasn't good last year with two non-shooters on the wing so Minnesota won't be good either, I think there will be a player donning a 32 jersey who will have something to say about that. If this was a team of just Butler and Wiggins, sure I could make a case that it'd be better to only have one and surround him with better complementary pieces. However, I believe there's enough of an inside/outside threat in the lineup that they won't be able to shut down both Wiggins and Butler on the same night. If by chance that happens, I'd almost guarantee that the defensive attention on them would free up Towns to have a mammoth night.

Minnesota is one of the only teams that has a lethal inside/outside combination like that. All of these teams are building perimeter-dominant lineups in order to dethrone the champs and it's not going to be effective come playoffs. You can't beat a team like the Warriors at their own game. When we beat them the last two years, we didn't get hot from the 3-point line. We made a combined 12 threes in the two games. You have to expose a great opponent where it's weakest.

[AirP.]

Well, if they were better 3pt shooters maybe but both of those player's value drops dramatically when the ball isn't in their hands. Chicago fans just watched a similar situation last year with Butler and Wade.

There are a couple of reasons why I believe this will work better than people give the guys credit for.

The two duos Butler and Wiggins are most often compared to are the ones they were a part of last season: Wade/Butler and LaVine/Wiggins. In both cases, people cite the ball dominance of each player in the duo as evidence for why it can't work, as well as the lack of spacing that was seen, especially in Chicago.

The flaw in the lack of spacing is that we're not talking a career 30% 3-point shooter as the third perimeter guy like Rondo was. Jeff Teague is a career 35% 3-point shooter.

Sure, but Rondo was just under 38% from 3pt range last year, just under 37% in Sacramento and 35% in Dallas. Rondo had become a little better then just an ok 3pt shooter by last year so we're not talking about the same not able to hit a 3pt shooter Rondo use to be. He's been an acceptable 3pt shooter for a few years now, so yes, Chicago had a PG who could hit open shots at PG with the Wade and Butler wing combo.

As for the ball dominance often discussed with Wiggins and LaVine last year and Wiggins not being great without the ball, Wiggins is going from a teammate with a 12.6 assist percentage to one who had a 24.8 assist percentage last year. Butler is not a ballhog. And that gap isn't made up in the switch from Rubio to Teague either, as that was just a drop from 38.9 to 36.4. There will be plenty of ball movement.

Butler isn't the problem, the problem is the other Wing who does nothing but score on a high volume of shots, without the ball he'll get some nice scores(dunks) off cuts, maybe hit an open 3 from time to time, but in reality. People really need to wake up about Wiggins, unless he drastically changes as a player he's going to hurt this team. Looking at the on offs last year for Minnesota's starters, Rubio was good, Dieng was good, Towns was great, LaVine was below average and Wiggins was bad. To make him a "real" positive for a good team will take a huge turnaround for his game.

And finally, to the notion that the Chicago wasn't good last year with two non-shooters on the wing so Minnesota won't be good either, I think there will be a player donning a 32 jersey who will have something to say about that. If this was a team of just Butler and Wiggins, sure I could make a case that it'd be better to only have one and surround him with better complementary pieces. However, I believe there's enough of an inside/outside threat in the lineup that they won't be able to shut down both Wiggins and Butler on the same night. If by chance that happens, I'd almost guarantee that the defensive attention on them would free up Towns to have a mammoth night.

Minnesota is one of the only teams that has a lethal inside/outside combination like that. All of these teams are building perimeter-dominant lineups in order to dethrone the champs and it's not going to be effective come playoffs. You can't beat a team like the Warriors at their own game. When we beat them the last two years, we didn't get hot from the 3-point line. We made a combined 12 threes in the two games. You have to expose a great opponent where it's weakest.

I actually love what Minnesota is doing, all except keeping Wiggins and not having a somewhat young stretch 4(maybe that's Patton). Wiggins is highly athletic, explosive and after 3 years he's still just below average in efficiency, doesn't create shots for others, doesn't rebound, doesn't play defense and at sometime people(other teams) will give up on his potential to be something more. If he doesn't show improvement(he will get less shots so his scoring may drop too) his value will drop dramatically as his pay and age rises. I just see Wiggins as an asset that is getting ready to take a huge drop in value and with that a drop in this team's chances at winning a title.

[Klomp]

There's one stat with this team that I don't believe gets mentioned enough. Everyone is quick to point out that Minnesota doesn't have enough 3-point shooters, but if my math is correct, a player gets the same amount of points when he's fouled on a made 2-point field goal and makes the free throw.

Minnesota now has three of the top 12 finishers in the NBA from last season in converting and 1s for 3-point plays.

1. Anthony Davis
2. DeMarcus Cousins
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo
4. Russell Westbrook
5. LeBron James
6. Devin Booker
7. John Wall
8. Karl-Anthony Towns
9. Andrew Wiggins
t10. Jimmy Butler
t10. Brook Lopez
t10. Kevin Durant

Additionally, Jeff Teague and Jamal Crawford are both in the top 15 of converting 4-point plays.

No, those points don't add up evenly to having an elite 3-point shooter or two on the roster, but it can narrow the gap.

[big3_8_19_21]

There's one stat with this team that I don't believe gets mentioned enough. Everyone is quick to point out that Minnesota doesn't have enough 3-point shooters, but if my math is correct, a player gets the same amount of points when he's fouled on a made 2-point field goal and makes the free throw.

Minnesota now has three of the top 12 finishers in the NBA from last season in converting and 1s for 3-point plays.

1. Anthony Davis
2. DeMarcus Cousins
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo
4. Russell Westbrook
5. LeBron James
6. Devin Booker
7. John Wall
8. Karl-Anthony Towns
9. Andrew Wiggins
t10. Jimmy Butler
t10. Brook Lopez
t10. Kevin Durant

Additionally, Jeff Teague and Jamal Crawford are both in the top 15 of converting 4-point plays.

No, those points don't add up evenly to having an elite 3-point shooter or two on the roster, but it can narrow the gap.

Interesting. I'd imagine that helps quite a bit in points per possession, but it still doesn't do much for spacing. Unless you consider that players that convert a lot of and-1s may also be more likely to be doubled. But still, yeah, different. It helps, but we definitely still need some knockdown shooting. I'm hoping Tyus becomes a sniper in time.

[minimus]

There's one stat with this team that I don't believe gets mentioned enough. Everyone is quick to point out that Minnesota doesn't have enough 3-point shooters, but if my math is correct, a player gets the same amount of points when he's fouled on a made 2-point field goal and makes the free throw.

Minnesota now has three of the top 12 finishers in the NBA from last season in converting and 1s for 3-point plays.

1. Anthony Davis
2. DeMarcus Cousins
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo
4. Russell Westbrook
5. LeBron James
6. Devin Booker
7. John Wall
8. Karl-Anthony Towns
9. Andrew Wiggins
t10. Jimmy Butler
t10. Brook Lopez
t10. Kevin Durant

Additionally, Jeff Teague and Jamal Crawford are both in the top 15 of converting 4-point plays.

No, those points don't add up evenly to having an elite 3-point shooter or two on the roster, but it can narrow the gap.

Thanks, I found these stats here: http://www.nbaminer.com/four-point-plays-and-one/

[southern wolf]

I was sick and tired of us having the 'up and coming' hyped young side that disappoints year after year anyway. Butler, Teague and Gibson will do wonders for our starting lineup. You need solid vets to win in this league. And we've still got the best young big in the game and a pretty good sidekick in Wiggins too.

[beezy]

I was sick and tired of us having the 'up and coming' hyped young side that disappoints year after year anyway. Butler, Teague and Gibson will do wonders for our starting lineup. You need solid vets to win in this league. And we've still got the best young big in the game and a pretty good sidekick in Wiggins too.

THIS-- We still have youth where it counts. 2 stars (one superstar in KAT, maybe 2 if Wigs tries).