If you had a do-over......

[MN7725]

Might be true, playoff success likely comes only from KAT/Wig improvement. Everything else is probably secondary

But again, I was just dumbfounded that Wolves came out of the offseason with two legit wings, so any move that resulted in that I'm going to disagree with

Other key points are hindsight is 20/20 and the grass is always greener.

Guys like George Hill, CJ miles and Pat Patterson sound good on paper but what are they actually doing where they are at?

Majority hated the taj signing and he’s currently the obvious most consistent player of the short season. Not only that but pat Patterson has been trash this season.

Everyone hated (and still hates) the Teague signing but he’s delivering on what we got him for which was 3 point shooting and assists. George Hill has been garbage this year (I have him on fantasy. Pure crap). Jrue and Lowry have picked up recently but would have required an additional 5-10 million on top of what Teague was paid.


it’s easy to say “if we could go back” but overall the moves are working fine so far. Only issues are growing pains and pre existing problems. Wiggins inconsistent midrange and kats defensive lapses. Fix those two issues and a few of the L’s are W’s

No hindsight by me

Argued against Teague when he was signed immediately at deadline, frankly lost my mind haha
Argued against Taj when he was signed as being redundant with Dieng (and his production is shockingly similar to Dieng's previous two years)

They're are both good players, and doing as well as expected.
But there was an opportunity cost at wing

I don't see how anyone can argue there wasn't. The Wolves only had room exception and minimum contracts (or Aldrich/OKC pick trade) to fill out behind Butler/Wig

The bench is bad because Crawford and Bazz aren't good (no surprise), and we have seen what team looks like when Butler (and probably when Wig) misses a game. It's just crippling and expecting both to stay healthy all year isn't a plan, its hope.

And the wing issue will become more glaring in playoffs

[walk with me]

Might be true, playoff success likely comes only from KAT/Wig improvement. Everything else is probably secondary

But again, I was just dumbfounded that Wolves came out of the offseason with two legit wings, so any move that resulted in that I'm going to disagree with

Other key points are hindsight is 20/20 and the grass is always greener.

Guys like George Hill, CJ miles and Pat Patterson sound good on paper but what are they actually doing where they are at?

Majority hated the taj signing and he’s currently the obvious most consistent player of the short season. Not only that but pat Patterson has been trash this season.

Everyone hated (and still hates) the Teague signing but he’s delivering on what we got him for which was 3 point shooting and assists. George Hill has been garbage this year (I have him on fantasy. Pure crap). Jrue and Lowry have picked up recently but would have required an additional 5-10 million on top of what Teague was paid.


it’s easy to say “if we could go back” but overall the moves are working fine so far. Only issues are growing pains and pre existing problems. Wiggins inconsistent midrange and kats defensive lapses. Fix those two issues and a few of the L’s are W’s

No hindsight by me

Argued against Teague when he was signed immediately at deadline, frankly lost my mind haha
Argued against Taj when he was signed as being redundant with Dieng (and his production is shockingly similar to Dieng's previous two years)

They're are both good players, and doing as well as expected.
But there was an opportunity cost at wing

I don't see how anyone can argue there wasn't. The Wolves only had room exception and minimum contracts (or Aldrich/OKC pick trade) to fill out behind Butler/Wig

The bench is bad because Crawford and Bazz aren't good (no surprise), and we have seen what team looks like when Butler (and probably when Wig) misses a game. It's just crippling and expecting both to stay healthy all year isn't a plan, its hope.

And the wing issue will become more glaring in playoffs

I meant generally, not by you. The absolute roof for this core in 2 seasons in 2nd round of the playoffs. I don’t think any hindsight moves could guaranteed two wcsf births consecutively. Although it’s not impossible, just unlikely.

[FinnTheHuman]

Might be true, playoff success likely comes only from KAT/Wig improvement. Everything else is probably secondary

But again, I was just dumbfounded that Wolves came out of the offseason with two legit wings, so any move that resulted in that I'm going to disagree with

Other key points are hindsight is 20/20 and the grass is always greener.

Guys like George Hill, CJ miles and Pat Patterson sound good on paper but what are they actually doing where they are at?

Majority hated the taj signing and he’s currently the obvious most consistent player of the short season. Not only that but pat Patterson has been trash this season.

Everyone hated (and still hates) the Teague signing but he’s delivering on what we got him for which was 3 point shooting and assists. George Hill has been garbage this year (I have him on fantasy. Pure crap). Jrue and Lowry have picked up recently but would have required an additional 5-10 million on top of what Teague was paid.


it’s easy to say “if we could go back” but overall the moves are working fine so far. Only issues are growing pains and pre existing problems. Wiggins inconsistent midrange and kats defensive lapses. Fix those two issues and a few of the L’s are W’s

No hindsight by me

Argued against Teague when he was signed immediately at deadline, frankly lost my mind haha
Argued against Taj when he was signed as being redundant with Dieng (and his production is shockingly similar to Dieng's previous two years)

They're are both good players, and doing as well as expected.
But there was an opportunity cost at wing

I don't see how anyone can argue there wasn't. The Wolves only had room exception and minimum contracts (or Aldrich/OKC pick trade) to fill out behind Butler/Wig

The bench is bad because Crawford and Bazz aren't good (no surprise), and we have seen what team looks like when Butler (and probably when Wig) misses a game. It's just crippling and expecting both to stay healthy all year isn't a plan, its hope.

And the wing issue will become more glaring in playoffs

I feel we'll be able to get a decent backup wing around the trade deadline come the all star week, maybe something around J. Simmons and OKC 1st, because Magic won't make the PO this year either it seems.

To me, the issue will always be that we signed Teague instead of Lowry. We just had to max Lowry, and no hindsight by me either, been saying that before we signed Teague non-stop. We'd be in the tier of a few teams who'd actually have an outside chance of contesting Warriors in a PO series with Lowry, he's that good individually, and even better as a fit. And I don't wanna get into the topic of Taylor's cheapness and lux tax issues, you ain't contending if you don't go into lux tax territory in today's NBA.

[Streakers33]

Hmmm.. this will be fun to add to..

Butler deal. U have to do that. It’s a super star league and we didn’t have one... and your trading potential for proven. All teams that want to win do this..

Sign Gibson? Sure.. I’m ok with this. Thibs wants his guy.. on his deal. Ok that’s with me..
what I don’t like, is by over paying for all your bigs u put a jam on the money u can spend later. When signing or talking about signing Gibson, Patton and Cole should have been moved, to show that as a gm. U are still planning ahead..

Trade Rubio? Sure for cap space and a first? Might as well get some solid value out of him if u don’t want him on your team.. it is his team.. that’s why I’m ok With this..

Teague? No.. I think I would have left cap space open . The rumors of Carmelo, pg13 were very active . Boston has to trade someone to sign Hayward, and I would have aggressively tried to offer that cap space and okc pick for those players first.. and after striking out, find a comparable player.. knowing tyus needs more mins anyways or why have him?


After seeing the proudness (is that a word?) of thibs during the whole butler coming to town.. scoring another “super star” because teams are dumping them, would have put thibs on a statue , and instead we are discussing if he is even a god coach anymore ??

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[Worm Guts]

Trade Rubio? Sure for cap space and a first? Might as well get some solid value out of him if u don’t want him on your team.. it is his team.. that’s why I’m ok With this..

Teague? No.. I think I would have left cap space open . The rumors of Carmelo, pg13 were very active . Boston has to trade someone to sign Hayward, and I would have aggressively tried to offer that cap space and okc pick for those players first.. and after striking out, find a comparable player.. knowing tyus needs more mins anyways or why have him?

You can't just trade Rubio and not sign a replacement PG. Tyus hadn't really even proven himself as a backup.

[FinnTheHuman]

Trade Rubio? Sure for cap space and a first? Might as well get some solid value out of him if u don’t want him on your team.. it is his team.. that’s why I’m ok With this..

Teague? No.. I think I would have left cap space open . The rumors of Carmelo, pg13 were very active . Boston has to trade someone to sign Hayward, and I would have aggressively tried to offer that cap space and okc pick for those players first.. and after striking out, find a comparable player.. knowing tyus needs more mins anyways or why have him?

You can't just trade Rubio and not sign a replacement PG. Tyus hadn't really even proven himself as a backup.

Why do you sign one so quickly, and why is the only one who doesn't play defense out of a bunch?

[Worm Guts]

Trade Rubio? Sure for cap space and a first? Might as well get some solid value out of him if u don’t want him on your team.. it is his team.. that’s why I’m ok With this..

Teague? No.. I think I would have left cap space open . The rumors of Carmelo, pg13 were very active . Boston has to trade someone to sign Hayward, and I would have aggressively tried to offer that cap space and okc pick for those players first.. and after striking out, find a comparable player.. knowing tyus needs more mins anyways or why have him?

You can't just trade Rubio and not sign a replacement PG. Tyus hadn't really even proven himself as a backup.

Why do you sign one so quickly, and why is the only one who doesn't play defense out of a bunch?

I don't really want to get into who we should have gotten as our starting PG, it just couldn't have been Tyus at that point even if he turns out to be a serviceable starting PG.

[Zeitgeister]

Well, weren't the two guys that were better than Teague, Lowry and Jrue Holiday? Both of those guys signed massive contracts with their home teams, probably weren't reasonably attainable. It's not like these guys don't speak about this stuff before the day free agency opens up.

[shrink]

Trade Rubio? Sure for cap space and a first? Might as well get some solid value out of him if u don’t want him on your team.. it is his team.. that’s why I’m ok With this..

Teague? No.. I think I would have left cap space open . The rumors of Carmelo, pg13 were very active . Boston has to trade someone to sign Hayward, and I would have aggressively tried to offer that cap space and okc pick for those players first.. and after striking out, find a comparable player.. knowing tyus needs more mins anyways or why have him?

You can't just trade Rubio and not sign a replacement PG. Tyus hadn't really even proven himself as a backup.

Why do you sign one so quickly, and why is the only one who doesn't play defense out of a bunch?

You sign him quickly because there were less free agent PG's available than there were teams that needed them. There are probably 22-24 good starting PG's in the league, so it makes it feel like there are plenty, because so many teams have a good one. However, if you are one of the teams that doesn't have one, you are in pretty bad shape. Maybe some of the 2017 Lottery PG rookies will reach that level, but a team like ours that has playoff ambitions in the tough West desperately needs to lock up one of those PG's.

I agree with you on the need for defense, and I think the reason we signed Teague was money. George Hill turned down an extension for $27 mil a year, Lowry and Jrue wanted max money, so getting Teague early, and at $19, was a key factor. In Thibs defense, Teague has been the best possible signing of the four, considering dollars for production. However, we still aren't maximizing him, because his best attribute is scoring, and we already have plenty of scorers.

Personally, I think Rubio would do a better job on this team, even thoug we wouldn't be maximizing his best skill (passing) either. Clearly, Thibs wanted to move on. I think when the December 15th date rolls around, and Teague is eligible to be traded, you listen to offers. Since Thibs plays the starters so much, the biggest impact from a trade would be to insert a different starter, and the other 4 are all locked in. I doubt we see a trade, but Teague has done enough to be tradable on his $19 mil deal.

[Tukkerwolf]

As much as this team frustrates me (a lot) it's because I have expectations. And let's be honest, without all those moves we'd once again would be hovering around a .400 record.

[walk with me]

Question to those who vote do over.

What alternatives would you have liked to see? These is what I feel like I’ve seen so far

A- Rubio butler Wiggins taj Kat same bench
B- Same team as last year w/Markenen
C - Teague jimmy Wiggins Kat Patterson same bench
D - Max Lowry/Holiday jimmy Wiggins Kat taj aame bench
E - Hill Wiggins Butler Kat taj same bench


I’m just trying to envision what scenario you redo that delivers a obviously superior team. My only regret about this off-season is that we didn’t get Dante Cunningham.

He’s exactly what the team is missing.

[shrink]

With the benefit of hindsight, Paul Milsap, George Hill, and Patterson were all cheaper deals, because they got paid at the end of free agency when money was running out. Maybe they would have produced better here. But it's an unfair comparison, because omce he traded for Jimmy, Thibs wanted to lock in a contending team and couldn't afford to wait.

[PharmD]

Question to those who vote do over.

What alternatives would you have liked to see? These is what I feel like I’ve seen so far

A- Rubio butler Wiggins taj Kat same bench
B- Same team as last year w/Markenen
C - Teague jimmy Wiggins Kat Patterson same bench
D - Max Lowry/Holiday jimmy Wiggins Kat taj aame bench
E - Hill Wiggins Butler Kat taj same bench


I’m just trying to envision what scenario you redo that delivers a obviously superior team. My only regret about this off-season is that we didn’t get Dante Cunningham.

He’s exactly what the team is missing.

B plus put the $33M in cap space to use.

[Worm Guts]

The most obvious thing we screwed up was giving Gorgui an extension at beginning of last season. Completely ignoring that we could have paid him less, his cap hold would have been about 10 million less than his extension. We could have signed CJ Miles or made a better run at one of the bigger FA with that money, then signed Gorgui to go over the cap.

[PharmD]

The most obvious thing we screwed up was giving Gorgui an extension at beginning of last season. Completely ignoring that we could have paid him less, his cap hold would have been about 10 million less than his extension. We could have signed CJ Miles or made a better run at one of the bigger FA with that money, then signed Gorgui to go over the cap.

Yeah. We were assuming that this offseason was gonna be crazy again and therefore we'd be getting Gorgui at a discount. But the cap went from 108 to 99 and thus nobody had much cap space and it was a terrible market for FAs.

Also, Thibs must not have liked what he got from Gorgui last year seeing how he spent 100% of our cap space on Gorgui's replacement.

[MN7725]

The most obvious thing we screwed up was giving Gorgui an extension at beginning of last season. Completely ignoring that we could have paid him less, his cap hold would have been about 10 million less than his extension. We could have signed CJ Miles or made a better run at one of the bigger FA with that money, then signed Gorgui to go over the cap.

Yeah. We were assuming that this offseason was gonna be crazy again and therefore we'd be getting Gorgui at a discount. But the cap went from 108 to 99 and thus nobody had much cap space and it was a terrible market for FAs.

Also, Thibs must not have liked what he got from Gorgui last year seeing how he spent 100% of our cap space on Gorgui's replacement.

At the time of the extension, the cap was projected at $102 mil and only about 10 teams were projected to have $$ available to offer Dieng's 1st year extension salary number

July 7 2016
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-lowers-2017-18-cap-projection-to-102-million/

None of whom really made sense to offer a soon to be 28 yr old RFA a large contract, since it was bad/rebuilding tams that would favor cap flexibility or upside players, or teams like Bos/MIA that had obvious bigger targets

It was very educational to see who in national media thought that extension made sense and who didn't, could see who actually pays attention to the #s and $. Nate Duncan, Tim Bontemps, Sam Vecenie I can remember specifically criticizing it at the time.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Speaking of Gorguis deal, thank GOD Bazz didnt take that 40 mill when Thibs offered it to him.

[T-wOlvEs 420]

Question to those who vote do over.

What alternatives would you have liked to see? These is what I feel like I’ve seen so far

A- Rubio butler Wiggins taj Kat same bench
B- Same team as last year w/Markenen
C - Teague jimmy Wiggins Kat Patterson same bench
D - Max Lowry/Holiday jimmy Wiggins Kat taj aame bench
E - Hill Wiggins Butler Kat taj same bench


I’m just trying to envision what scenario you redo that delivers a obviously superior team. My only regret about this off-season is that we didn’t get Dante Cunningham.

He’s exactly what the team is missing.

B plus put the $33M in cap space to use.

But Wiggins Max kicks in next year and Towns Max when he signs will kick in the following year.. so that 33 mill.. had to be used now

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[PharmD]

Question to those who vote do over.

What alternatives would you have liked to see? These is what I feel like I’ve seen so far

A- Rubio butler Wiggins taj Kat same bench
B- Same team as last year w/Markenen
C - Teague jimmy Wiggins Kat Patterson same bench
D - Max Lowry/Holiday jimmy Wiggins Kat taj aame bench
E - Hill Wiggins Butler Kat taj same bench


I’m just trying to envision what scenario you redo that delivers a obviously superior team. My only regret about this off-season is that we didn’t get Dante Cunningham.

He’s exactly what the team is missing.

B plus put the $33M in cap space to use.

But Wiggins Max kicks in next year and Towns Max when he signs will kick in the following year.. so that 33 mill.. had to be used now

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well right. It had to be used this last offseason.

[T-wOlvEs 420]

O my fault.. I misunderstood

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