The elephant in the room ...

[beezy]

KAT is a big concern going forward. Most championship level players make a big jump in years 2 and 3. His offensive numbers looked great in year 2 if you just look at traditional stats. However, his numbers look less impressive when you see they were obtained by stat grabbing on very bad teams. His play did not translate into wins and he seemed to give up as much on the defensive end as he produced offensively. Year 3 has been a big regression IMO. He looks worse on a good team because he does not affect the game positively in any other area but offense and grabbing fairly easy defensive rebounds. He has invested no time in the little details that result in winning and it is blatantly obvious. We all know he will get the max deal BUT we will then have 2 young max players that have never worked much on fundamentals and who have needed to be carried by veterans when many of their young peers are carrying the load themselves and are passing them by. Seriously, would you rather have our core or Philly's or LA's or the Buck's?

[Klomp]

KAT is a big concern going forward. Most championship level players make a big jump in years 2 and 3. His offensive numbers looked great in year 2 if you just look at traditional stats. However, his numbers look less impressive when you see they were obtained by stat grabbing on very bad teams. His play did not translate into wins and he seemed to give up as much on the defensive end as he produced offensively. Year 3 has been a big regression IMO. He looks worse on a good team because he does not affect the game positively in any other area but offense and grabbing fairly easy defensive rebounds. He has invested no time in the little details that result in winning and it is blatantly obvious. We all know he will get the max deal BUT we will then have 2 young max players that have never worked much on fundamentals and who have needed to be carried by veterans when many of their young peers are carrying the load themselves and are passing them by. Seriously, would you rather have our core or Philly's or LA's or the Buck's?

How many young stars have carried their teams to a title without any veteran help?

[beezy]

KAT is a big concern going forward. Most championship level players make a big jump in years 2 and 3. His offensive numbers looked great in year 2 if you just look at traditional stats. However, his numbers look less impressive when you see they were obtained by stat grabbing on very bad teams. His play did not translate into wins and he seemed to give up as much on the defensive end as he produced offensively. Year 3 has been a big regression IMO. He looks worse on a good team because he does not affect the game positively in any other area but offense and grabbing fairly easy defensive rebounds. He has invested no time in the little details that result in winning and it is blatantly obvious. We all know he will get the max deal BUT we will then have 2 young max players that have never worked much on fundamentals and who have needed to be carried by veterans when many of their young peers are carrying the load themselves and are passing them by. Seriously, would you rather have our core or Philly's or LA's or the Buck's?

How many young stars have carried their teams to a title without any veteran help?

You just don't get it, like all homers. I'm talkin' about the future, man. Our young "stars" just don't have the juice to win a title.

[Klomp]

They don't at age 22. How many young stars had that juice at 22? Are they going to never improve any aspect of their games for the rest of their careers? If not, why feel the need to make such a blanket statement and have their careers decided for them already?

If having a level head about 22-year old players makes me a homer, so be it....

[Note30]

They don't at age 22. How many young stars had that juice at 22? Are they going to never improve any aspect of their games for the rest of their careers? If not, why feel the need to make such a blanket statement and have their careers decided for them already?

If having a level head about 22-year old players makes me a homer, so be it....

Decent chunk of HoF 3rd year players led their teams into the playoffs and had ‘juice’.

[Note30]

They don't at age 22. How many young stars had that juice at 22? Are they going to never improve any aspect of their games for the rest of their careers? If not, why feel the need to make such a blanket statement and have their careers decided for them already?

If having a level head about 22-year old players makes me a homer, so be it....

AI, Wade, Kobe (ring), Pierce, Vince Carter, Ray Allen. Hell after three years, KG was superstar. Well his contract was. Yes all of those guys continued to get better, but there was never such a huge gap in their game. Out of all of them only Kobe really changed his own game skill wise on a significant margin. The rest got better but they didn’t magically get waaaay better at any particular skillset that they suuucked. AI didnt become Nash, Wade didn’t learn to shoot threes, Vince Carter never developed the leadership he needed to. So yah, the three year mark is a pretty good indicator of hey maybe this guys is gonna suck at this forever. Hell Harden still sucks on defense.

[Klomp]

They don't at age 22. How many young stars had that juice at 22? Are they going to never improve any aspect of their games for the rest of their careers? If not, why feel the need to make such a blanket statement and have their careers decided for them already?

If having a level head about 22-year old players makes me a homer, so be it....

Decent chunk of HoF 3rd year players led their teams into the playoffs and had ‘juice’.

They've carried their teams there without vet help?

And if you guys think a 25-year old 3rd-year player is no different than a 22-year old 3rd-year player, I give up because there's no sense going any further...

[Note30]

[quote="Klomp"][quote="Note30"][quote="Klomp"]They don't at age 22. How many young stars had that juice at 22? Are they going to never improve any aspect of their games for the rest of their careers? If not, why feel the need to make such a blanket statement and have their careers decided for them already?

If having a level head about 22-year old players makes me a homer, so be it....[/quote]



Decent chunk of HoF 3rd year players led their teams into the playoffs and had ‘juice’.[/quote]
They've carried their teams there without vet help?

And if you guys think a 25-year old 3rd-year player is no different than a 22-year old 3rd-year player, I give up because there's no sense going any further...[/quote]
Who did Vince Carter, TMac, Grant Hill have? Who did LeBron have?

None of those guys had any stars. They still
got to the playoffs and none of them older than 22 when it happened.

[Klomp]

Who did Vince Carter, TMac, Grant Hill have? Who did LeBron have?

None of those guys had any stars. They still
got to the playoffs and none of them older than 22 when it happened.

Eastern Conference slightly different than the Western Conference, no?

[Merc_Porto]

Who did Vince Carter, TMac, Grant Hill have? Who did LeBron have?

None of those guys had any stars. They still
got to the playoffs and none of them older than 22 when it happened.

Eastern Conference slightly different than the Western Conference, no?

Is the Eastern Conference thing an excuse for all
eternity ?
Wasn't always like this you know that right ?

[Note30]

Who did Vince Carter, TMac, Grant Hill have? Who did LeBron have?

None of those guys had any stars. They still
got to the playoffs and none of them older than 22 when it happened.

Eastern Conference slightly different than the Western Conference, no?

Is the Eastern Conference thing an excuse for all
eternity ?
Wasn't always like this you know that right ?

Ya pretty around 96-98 that one guy Jordan was around. Heard he was pretty good. Oh and like 5 years before that these dudes called the bad boys.

[Klomp]

Which one of those guys was playing during the Bad Boy era? And I believe Hill was the only one leading his team to the playoffs in the Jordan era. Everyone else was after.

[shrink]

You just don't get it, like all homers. I'm talkin' about the future, man. Our young "stars" just don't have the juice to win a title.

Ick. Rather than discuss, I hate with the recent choice that many people use, to instantly say, "if you don't agree with me, I am labeling you a homer."

Hell, Harden still sucks on defense

Isn't that interesting though? I think we'd all consider Harden a superstar, and he almost won MVP. Towns right now is probably the most offensively-gifted center in the NBA, Harden potentially in the NBA. Perhaps though, since center is the position on a team where defense is most important, you can't be a superstar like Harden?

[ace625214]

I wish rubechat hadn't shut down.

[Note30]

Which one of those guys was playing during the Bad Boy era? And I believe Hill was the only one leading his team to the playoffs in the Jordan era. Everyone else was after.

Do you really want me to go and look up old records for this? I know none of them played with those Pistons and I don’t remember which rooks/young players were Doing what down to a letter.

[Kabookalu]

I didn't know where else to post this, but I found this brilliant break down of Towns' defense:

Watch on YouTube

Towns has the tools to be one of the best defenders in the league, he just needs to be smarter and put more energy in it.

[TaylorTag]

I feel like he has been better the past couple of games in terms of lashing out at foul calls and not being a black hole in the post... His defense also seems better. Maybe he's been reading the critics and responding in kind

[southern wolf]

Someone needs to show KAT that video.

[walk with me]

Read on Twitter

[walk with me]

Read on Twitter