The next steps: Moves to make from here going forward

[Dewey]

Wiggins/Teague/Aldrich/Bazz will be gone this summer ...

[Note30]

He traded some of our potential for a superstar in Butler. Lavine and Dunn are looking good now, but at the time Dunn was looking like a bust and Lavine was an unknown coming off of major knee surgery. Towns and Wiggins were our best prospects.

Hindsight is 20/20.

So you wouldn't do the Butler deal in hindsight?

I would, just not for Zach. If I haaaad to give up Zach I would, but I would also then trade andrew. For Kyrie or someone else considering his value pre-max.

But then again, I didn't know any of this back then. So I can't say that I would have. I guess at this point I'm not happy considering the players I like the most were traded and are either now better or their replacements are worse.

[Note30]

He traded some of our potential for a superstar in Butler. Lavine and Dunn are looking good now, but at the time Dunn was looking like a bust and Lavine was an unknown coming off of major knee surgery. Towns and Wiggins were our best prospects.

Hindsight is 20/20.

I'm not quite sure how you think it would work... LaVine, Wiggins being paid max(or near it) money next year, Towns getting max money the next year and sitting at 90 million dollars for 4 players(Wiggins, LaVine, Towns and Dieng) 2 years removed from 31 wins. Also at some point some of those scorers will want more shots since they're losing(lack of defense) and request trades out of town.

Potential only takes you so far... maybe Minnesota would have had a great offense but that defense would have been near the league's worst with little chance of getting better.

Oh I just meant its easier for me to judge now, but if I was in Thibs shoes I don't know how much I could have done. I probably would have done worse.

[Worm Guts]

I’m convinced the Wolves needed to trade for Butler. You can make a case they should have built the package around Wiggins instead of Lavine, but what we were doing wasn’t working.

[GopherIt!]

we need to find kat a pnr partner (tyus?)

im open to moving wiggs but I dont see a lot of options. in hindsight trading him for irving would have made sense.

[life_saver]

Do you guys think we will be having 3 players on max contracts at same time?
Personally, I don't really think we are gonna max 3 players at the same time...KAT is a lock, so I think it will come down to Wiggs or Jimmy. If we max Jimmy, then I think we might need to trade Wiggs..if we trust in Wiggs, then we either lose Jimmy or may be try negotiating a lesser contract with Jimmy(which is a tougher task than expected as there will be teams willing up to pay him). My preference would be keeping both KAT, Jimmy and trade Wiggs(if possible)

[LordBaldric]

Step One: Offer Jimmy Butler an extension this summer.

He is not eligible for the Designated Player 5% bump, because he was traded, so any deal starts at $32.4 mil for 2019-20. We can offer $188 mil over 5 years. Other teams can only offer 4 years and a smaller raise, so $139.

Good idea. And if he doesn't take it you have to consider trading him.

[Domejandro]

Wiggins/Teague/Aldrich/Bazz will be gone this summer ...

What teams are going to want Jeff Teague's salary?

[Narf]

Wiggins/Teague/Aldrich/Bazz will be gone this summer ...

What teams are going to want Jeff Teague's salary?

Philly probably takes him straight up.

[Domejandro]

Wiggins/Teague/Aldrich/Bazz will be gone this summer ...

What teams are going to want Jeff Teague's salary?

Philly probably takes him straight up.

Do you think so? Looking at the list, if they struck out on Free-Agency, you may not be entirely correct, but I just don't know.

[Narf]

What teams are going to want Jeff Teague's salary?

Philly probably takes him straight up.

Do you think so? Looking at the list, if they struck out on Free-Agency, you may not be entirely correct, but I just don't know.

Obviously if they land a better free agent they don't. But yeah, he's a stopgap veteran PG and a perfect fit as Simmons can be the primary ball handler.

They're a couple years from contender.

[Domejandro]

Philly probably takes him straight up.

Do you think so? Looking at the list, if they struck out on Free-Agency, you may not be entirely correct, but I just don't know.

Obviously if they land a better free agent they don't. But yeah, he's a stopgap veteran PG and a perfect fit as Simmons can be the primary ball handler.

They're a couple years from contender.

That's fair, they definitely are a solid team I hadn't considered.

Jarryd Bayless and two seconds/late first for Jeff Teague? Shave off a nineteen million dollar year of Jeff Teague for a year, and ten this year to resign Nemanja Bjelica.

[AirP.]

Hindsight is 20/20.

I'm not quite sure how you think it would work... LaVine, Wiggins being paid max(or near it) money next year, Towns getting max money the next year and sitting at 90 million dollars for 4 players(Wiggins, LaVine, Towns and Dieng) 2 years removed from 31 wins. Also at some point some of those scorers will want more shots since they're losing(lack of defense) and request trades out of town.

Potential only takes you so far... maybe Minnesota would have had a great offense but that defense would have been near the league's worst with little chance of getting better.

Oh I just meant its easier for me to judge now, but if I was in Thibs shoes I don't know how much I could have done. I probably would have done worse.

Easier to judge now? It's exactly the same as it was back then. You have to give up talent to get talent, Chicago didn't get a bunch of bums for a player like Butler.

[shrink]

1. Extend KAT
2. Extend Butler
3. Listen to offers on Teague and Dieng, but they are unlikely to be traded.
4. Waive Cole Aldrich, Aaron Brooks
5. Shabazz will probably opt out of vet min deal, to play here or overseas. If not, he should be tradable for cap space on talent.
6. Crawford will probably opt in. If he opts out, let him walk.

This leaves us pretty much where we are now:

KAT / Patton
Taj / Dieng
Butler
Wiggins / Crawford
Teague / Tyus

7. Draft OKC pick - BPA with highest upside, preferably a swingman
8. Use Tax-Payer MLE in Free Agency on a defense-oriented SF
9. Attempt to re-sign Bjelica for $4-5 mil.
10. Use the BAE if a bargain arises
11. Fill other roster spots with vet min and 2-way players.

I really don't expect a lot of changes over our current team. Luxury taxes will limit taking on a lot more salary, so we shouldn't be expecting to add another big contract. Thibs runs a short bench, and I'm very comfortable with our depth at PG and for Bigs (KAT, Taj, Dieng, Bjelica?, Patton?). Our biggest needs are for a reliable back-up SF, which would likely come from the MLE, but don't count out Bjelica becoming that SF. Since Thibs presses the starters so heavily, the main source of out improvement, besides our own intenral growth, would be upgrading Teague in a trade.

[Mech Engineer]

1. Extend KAT
2. Extend Butler
3. Listen to offers on Teague and Dieng, but they are unlikely to be traded.
4. Waive Cole Aldrich, Aaron Brooks
5. Shabazz will probably opt out of vet min deal, to play here or overseas. If not, he should be tradable for cap space on talent.
6. Crawford will probably opt in. If he opts out, let him walk.

This leaves us pretty much where we are now:

KAT / Patton
Taj / Dieng
Butler
Wiggins / Crawford
Teague / Tyus

7. Draft OKC pick - BPA with highest upside, preferably a swingman
8. Use Tax-Payer MLE in Free Agency on a defense-oriented SF
9. Attempt to re-sign Bjelica for $4-5 mil.
10. Use the BAE if a bargain arises
11. Fill other roster spots with vet min and 2-way players.

I really don't expect a lot of changes over our current team. Luxury taxes will limit taking on a lot more salary, so we shouldn't be expecting to add another big contract. Thibs runs a short bench, and I'm very comfortable with our depth at PG and for Bigs (KAT, Taj, Dieng, Bjelica?, Patton?). Our biggest needs are for a reliable back-up SF, which would likely come from the MLE, but don't count out Bjelica becoming that SF. Since Thibs presses the starters so heavily, the main source of out improvement, besides our own intenral growth, would be upgrading Teague in a trade.

Thibs used a lot of his bench in his first year with the Bulls. Asik and Taj were closing games even in the playoffs over Noah/Boozer.

I think if he sees his starters playing well, he keeps using them and if they are playing bad, he goes to the bench. He just hates losing.

I think Thibs has to find people to mitigate the bad matchups against the elite teams in the West. That will be his goal. I think Teague/Wiggins are the weakest links on defense against good match-ups. Wiggins has to step up on defense. I just don't think Jimmy can guard the best offensive player and then dominate on offense. If not, Thibs has to find a defense-oriented wing.

[shrink]

The thing people need to remember about Wiggins is that in the current NBA, there are very few players with both the size and quickness to be able to switch onto most players. MIN is incredibly lucky to have two of them with Jimmy and Wiggins. Wiggins has a long way to go, but he is slowly improving, particularly his man defense. People should keep in mind if we swap him to get a defense-oriented SG, who's maybe 6' 4", it just takes one or two switches before he's on a bigger player that he can't stop.

Wiggins might not be there yet, but his rarity in the NBA makes him a guy we need to keep, and develop.

[Narf]

When Wiggins is in the game, the other team's SF has an eFG% of .494 and a PER of 12.8:
www.82games.com/1718/17MIN9.HTM#bypos

That's 69% of the other team's SF time. The 2% and 3% of the time Wiggins guards a SG or PF is too small a sample size to matter (for instance, I would expect Wiggins to be much better at guarding SGs and much worse at guarding PFs, but it's reversed here). But that sample size at SF is huge.

He gets zero credit for his good defense here. And you damn well know it's good because people would be making threads about his defensive mistakes every day if they could. They can't because he's making very few mistakes, less than the average NBA player.

The only thing Wiggins needs to do to be a good starter is get his 3 point shooting up. At which point he'll be a good 3 and D who can also step up as a poor man's #1 scorer in case of injury.

Edit:
And free throws. WTF happened to his shot?

[Mech Engineer]

The thing people need to remember about Wiggins is that in the current NBA, there are very few players with both the size and quickness to be able to switch onto most players. MIN is incredibly lucky to have two of them with Jimmy and Wiggins. Wiggins has a long way to go, but he is slowly improving, particularly his man defense. People should keep in mind if we swap him to get a defense-oriented SG, who's maybe 6' 4", it just takes one or two switches before he's on a bigger player that he can't stop.

Wiggins might not be there yet, but his rarity in the NBA makes him a guy we need to keep, and develop.

I agree. From the Wolves games I have watched this year, Wiggins is not a total liability on defense. He is learning how to play and position himself on defense. What I see is him getting lost on defense and his positioning sometimes rather than his inability.

I also think it made sense to keep Wiggins over Lavine just based on defensive possibilities and range.

With all the player movement on offenses, there is constant switching on defenses. Wiggins/Butler can guard almost any wing/guard and also help each other out if one is in foul trouble/struggling.

For ex: Boozer was terrible on defense and improved his defense slightly by figuring out Thibs's schemes. But, his natural issues on defense showed up at crucial times. It was kind of strange. Boozer was quick enough on offense against most PFs/bigs but he still seemed to get lost on defense.

[mplsfonz23]

What no game thread?

[AirP.]

When Wiggins is in the game, the other team's SF has an eFG% of .494 and a PER of 12.8:
www.82games.com/1718/17MIN9.HTM#bypos

That's 69% of the other team's SF time. The 2% and 3% of the time Wiggins guards a SG or PF is too small a sample size to matter (for instance, I would expect Wiggins to be much better at guarding SGs and much worse at guarding PFs, but it's reversed here). But that sample size at SF is huge.

He gets zero credit for his good defense here. And you damn well know it's good because people would be making threads about his defensive mistakes every day if they could. They can't because he's making very few mistakes, less than the average NBA player.

If they could? I kept my mouth shut about his defense the last play of the Cavs game, he was ~5-7 feet away from Lebron when the ball was in the air going to LeBron and made ZERO effort to help contest the shot(he just stood there). Wiggins is just a horrible off the ball defender. Just watch him stand there instead of helping on the inbounds pass or shot. It's things like that, that help you win or lose games.
https://youtu.be/4BCF1_BA8jA?t=1m10s

I'll say what I've always said about Wiggins on the defensive end, on the ball his size and athletic ability allows him to play solid one on one defense if he tries at all which he is more this year, outside of that he's not a very good team/off ball defender. The 82games.com stats only counts what a specific position does on offense when on the court with a particular player, not who's guarding that position and with the switching that happens I doubt Wiggins has less to do with those good defensive numbers at SF then Butler and even Gibson does.

Right now, you put an average defensive SF in Wiggins place, the team would be better, even if you want to argue the defense wouldn't change fine, offensively the team would get better by not having a high volume/low efficiency scorer taking so many shots.

The best thing for this team would be to extend Butler and then trade Wiggins(once his PPP is up) for a high draft pick and solid player. There's probably a few GMs of some bad team who would rather gamble with Wiggins then someone in the lottery.

This team's ceiling isn't even tied to one of the wings, it's tied to Towns.