The obligatory fire Thibs thread

[Gaijin79]

unless one's already been created somewhere... sorry if that's the case. But here's a two-part question:

So coming at it from this angle, disregarding whether or not he deserves to be canned and whether Glen Taylor has the guts to fire him, do you think firing Thibs would hurt our ability to keep some of our guys, obviously primarily Jimmy and Taj? And then secondly, how could his firing be spun as a good thing for Glen Taylor, who would once again be starting over with a coach (not to mention a GM)? The whole thing would reset once again.

My view is if we finish 8th (and get swept by Houston) or worse, you fire him and scramble to find the right guy, a young upstart, to get the most out of our guys while they are still under contract. Someone who can relate more to Wiggins and Kat while respecting Jimmy as the unquestioned leader. Then we hopefully have a successful season next season where we improve on our 8th or worse positioning, our guys aren't as gassed, and our bench plays more. And then we'll see what we're able to keep together.

All the details aside, without Jimmy, Thibs has maybe a .500 non-playoff team. That's a significant fail.

[Merc_Porto]

We needed depth, defense and 3pt shoting.
We got no depth, awful defenders on overpaid contracts. In a financial situation that pretty much doesn't leave room to improvements over the next 2/3 years.

Most important, we play like ****, unwatchable brand of basketball.

#blameRicky
No, my bad...
#blameAndrew

[AirP.]

If this board is a reflection of Minnesota's fanbase I could really care less if you guys go another 13 years without a playoff appearance, a lot of you don't deserve much more.

16, 29, 31 and currently 42, that's the amount of wins this franchise has had in it's last 4 season. 16 wins just over 3 seasons ago, and 3 seasons later the franchise had a real shot at 50 wins.

Some of the fans on this board/franchise really need some perspective. Too many people are acting like this franchise hasn't won less then 30 games a season 7 of it's last 11 seasons.

You want to be mad, be mad that you've gotten 2 of the #1 picks in the last 4 drafts and they can't go .500 without Butler, holy #@()

[Merc_Porto]

The drought of 13 years without playoffs argument.

Doesn't really matter if the team is playing awful basketball, doesn't even matter that we add Jimmy Butler (the main reason why we have this current record) ...

Any coach in the world, ANY, at minimum would had this record with the addition of Jimmy Butler.

The team last season didn't had a better record because Thibs decided to go on a experience year of "knowing" the team better. Let's not forget the record we had last season of losing in close games. Most of the times becuse of Thibs stupid decisions.

[ensiferum]

Fire Sam Mitchell.

[AirP.]

The drought of 13 years without playoffs argument.

Doesn't really matter if the team is playing awful basketball, doesn't even matter that we add Jimmy Butler (the main reason why we have this current record) ...

Any coach in the world, ANY, at minimum would had this record with the addition of Jimmy Butler.

The team last season didn't had a better record because Thibs decided to go on a experience year of "knowing" the team better. Let's not forget the record we had last season of losing in close games. Most of the times becuse of Thibs stupid decisions.

No, because of the defense is so bad. Almost this whole fanbase just completely ignores half of the game.

I'll post this here too since you people CONTINUE to look the other way while 2 recent #1 overall picks continue to screw this team on defense. This simple play that I posted below seems to happen in all types of ways all year long. You can't have a coach go out there and hold these guys hands. Was there a reason to allow your man to go past you under the basket and of course, Towns wasn't paying attention too. I see this happening way too often, I get getting beat, it happens to everyone but something like this happens way too often, especially when the games on the line. It's really, really, really hard to be an above .500 team with this kind of stuff going on. This isn't a problem of knowing what to do, it's a problem of executing what you're suppose to do.

https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021701106&GameEventID=473&Season=2017-18&title=Green%201%27%20Cutting%20Layup%20Shot%20(8%20PTS)%20(Selden%203%20AST)&sct=plot

Then there's Towns, just out of position all of the time but at least he's up there as an all-timer at efficiency which somewhat makes up for his bad defense.

[Merc_Porto]

No, because of the defense is so bad. Almost this whole fanbase just completely ignores half of the game.

Trust me, if there is anything that this fanbase didn't ignore this last couple of years was DEFENSE (and DEPTH) and how much we needed good defenders but i guess the coach/GM completely ignored that.

[Alwaysrightguy]

It has to be discussed IMO. I would like to hear his reasoning for not using his bench to keep his guys fresh. Even his boy Buckets sat out the all star game because he said he was tired.....probably tired of carrying the team on his back! Then I would like to know why Bazz was cut and he does nothing about Wiggz and his sorry excuse for a game. Hopefully Glen has already had this chat with Tibbs. If so, I would like to know why his guys are not executing against the worst teams. Personally it appears that the guys are too tired and that is all on Tibbs...all of it! Even the Grizzles play by play guys were wondering why he ain't using his bench. It's pretty fkn obvious

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[AirP.]

No, because of the defense is so bad. Almost this whole fanbase just completely ignores half of the game.

Trust me, if there is anything that this fanbase didn't ignore this last couple of years was DEFENSE (and DEPTH) and how much we needed good defenders but i guess the coach/GM completely ignored that.

Wait... completely ignored defense? Gibson and Butler aren't great defensively? I do get the downgrade of defense at PG from Rubio to Teague, but because of a previous "great" trade they weren't going to have a 2018 1st round pick(which they might now).

I do believe there was an expectation from the GM/Coach and Owner that the young players continue to get better defensively and in all reality, they haven't, not that noticeable at least. Wiggins when his man had the ball had the athletic ability to play solid man to man defense and overall I was ok with that, it's his off the ball defense that's horrible. Towns who plays the most important defensive position is just constantly out of position and/or doesn't give the effort he should. Right there is 40% of your starting rotation being a huge problem on defense, but hey, every once in a while they'll make an athletic defensive play which makes most of this fan base happy while they completely ignore the rest of their problems. Players get better in the offseason, that's on them, a coach puts in a system and then has to prepare his team for the games which J.Crawford has mentioned that Thibs does probably better then anyone he's played for. So at some point... it's on the players but of course, no it can't be the actual players, it's gotta be the coach.

Depth, could have went cheaper with PG and PF I guess and added a CJ Miles, not sure adding more offense while taking away more defense would have been a good idea but who knows, this team was only heading towards 50 wins before Butler went down.

I mentioned the problem before the season, during the season and continue to talk about the problem but let's all keep ignoring that since he has some nice dunks. He had a time to step up and really hasn't done it. He's gotten some more shots and with that, his scoring has went up but besides that, not much has changed.

[Merc_Porto]

Yes, Wiggins and Towns make a lot of mistakes defensible and that is 40% of you starting rotation... Plus you add Jeff Teague to that count and goes for 60%...

You talk about the lack of effort...
Who is responsible for that?

If Towns, Wiggins or anyone else doesn't show effort the solution is simple, bench them... If they continue to make basics mistakes, bench them.

Oh i know the excuses on this one, but "they are young, they need to be spoiled because if Thibs bench KAT or Wiggins they are not going to resign with us in the future" bla bla bla

I think every single Wolves fan mention in the off season the need to have at least another wing to come off the bench, that was so obvious and yet, nothing was done about that...

But let's be serious, and let's forget the horrible decisions by Thibs/GM on so many levels.

Let's talk about the coach duties, game plan, rotations, adjustments, incapable of reward bench players , overplaying players, etc etc etc...

This team was on the pace for 50 wins because in the first 30/40 games of the season we got lucky to go against at least half of those teams without their best player, sometimes we played against teams without 2/3 of their best players.
I don't ignore that because i know how poor we played 70%/80% of these games.

[Calinks]

"This gonna be good!"

[Gaijin79]

Yes, Wiggins and Towns make a lot of mistakes defensible and that is 40% of you starting rotation... Plus you add Jeff Teague to that count and goes for 60%...

You talk about the lack of effort...
Who is responsible for that?

If Towns, Wiggins or anyone else doesn't show effort the solution is simple, bench them... If they continue to make basics mistakes, bench them.

Oh i know the excuses on this one, but "they are young, they need to be spoiled because if Thibs bench KAT or Wiggins they are not going to resign with us in the future" bla bla bla

I think every single Wolves fan mention in the off season the need to have at least another wing to come off the bench, that was so obvious and yet, nothing was done about that...

But let's be serious, and let's forget the horrible decisions by Thibs/GM on so many levels.

Let's talk about the coach duties, game plan, rotations, adjustments, incapable of reward bench players , overplaying players, etc etc etc...

This team was on the pace for 50 wins because in the first 30/40 games of the season we got lucky to go against at least half of those teams without their best player, sometimes we played against teams without 2/3 of their best players.
I don't ignore that because i know how poor we played 70%/80% of these games.

This is a good point. A few games back it was such a big deal that we beat the Warriors at home (sans Curry) I think in part because you can count on one hand the number of quality wins this team has this year. In most cases, our best wins were against teams that have since found their stride and would obliterate us now. I wouldn't even necessarily say that this is the best team we've had since our last playoff appearance either. That Adelman-led team with Ricky, Love, and Martin lost a butt-ton of close games but was more cohesive and competitive than this one.

[Gaijin79]

It has to be discussed IMO. I would like to hear his reasoning for not using his bench to keep his guys fresh. Even his boy Buckets sat out the all star game because he said he was tired.....probably tired of carrying the team on his back! Then I would like to know why Bazz was cut and he does nothing about Wiggz and his sorry excuse for a game. Hopefully Glen has already had this chat with Tibbs. If so, I would like to know why his guys are not executing against the worst teams. Personally it appears that the guys are too tired and that is all on Tibbs...all of it! Even the Grizzles play by play guys were wondering why he ain't using his bench. It's pretty fkn obvious

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Yep, I heard them saying that too. It's beyond perplexing. It should absolutely be a fireable offense to be running your best players ragged while getting nothing out of your bench, and hurting the development of both units in a season of missed playoffs. I just don't know that Glen Taylor will do anything. At this point he's probably more tired of the revolving door of coaches than anybody. It would be great to think that somebody could come in here though and get this exact roster comfortably to the playoffs - with plenty of energy to spare - next year.

[Gaijin79]

[quote="AirP."]If this board is a reflection of Minnesota's fanbase I could really care less if you guys go another 13 years without a playoff appearance, a lot of you don't deserve much more.

16, 29, 31 and currently 42, that's the amount of wins this franchise has had in it's last 4 season. 16 wins just over 3 seasons ago, and 3 seasons laters the franchise had a real shot at 50 wins.

Some of the fans on this board/franchise really need some perspective. Too many people are acting like this franchise hasn't won less then 30 games a season 7 of it's last 11 seasons.

You want to be mad, be mad that you've gotten 2 of the #1 picks in the last 4 drafts and they can't go .500 without Butler, holy #@()[/quote]
well yeah, that's absolutely a part of it. Seems like you get it. Another good thing to look at for frustration is Utah. Our GM got rid of their thriving point guard, they get maximum production out of their "prized' rookie, and despite losing their superstar in the offseason seem poised to overtake us permanently in the playoff race.

[walk with me]

How many franchise players under 24 years old would deliver a season low performance in a against a team like Memphis with playoffs on the line?


Ingram ?
Kuzma ?
Simmons?
Embiid ?
Booker?
Myles turner ?
Dennis Schroder ?
Donovan Mitchell ?
Bradley Beal?
Drummond?
Jokic?
Porzingas?
Brow?
Giannis?


I know majority of you have never played the sport before but you can’t coach effort. If you ranked every franchise player under 24 on effort. Kat and Wiggins would rank low and they’d rank low before thibs was apart of this franchise.

Watch on YouTube

How many coaches do you want to have before it hits you in the head that maybe Kat and Wiggins just aren’t ready to lead a team to anything but the lotto?

[BadWolf]

Well I think Thibs is a bad coach.
His offense is terrible, iso heavy, doesn't involve his most efficient guys enough and is still in love with the long 2.
His defense, well Minnesota is bottom 5 defensive team. Some of it is on players sure.
His rotations are on level with Kidd and Prunty.
His attitude probably runs players the wrong way.

[Merc_Porto]

You definitely can coach "effort"

[shrink]

When the season ends, we will probably see the biggest one-year increase in wins than the other 29 teams. Probably two years as well.

[walk with me]

How about clips like this? Just being honest, is a coach supposed to take away KAT and Wiggins PS4?

https://clips.twitch.tv/ExuberantImpartialEggnogHassanChop?tt_medium=clips_api&tt_content=url

https://clips.twitch.tv/RacyFriendlyCaribouMcaT?tt_medium=clips_api&tt_content=url


Love or hate thibs it doesn’t change the fact that neither Kat nor Wiggins show the intensity to want to even be in the playoffs. Thibs aside I would have traded Wiggins ASAP and surrounded Kat the best I could with dogs. Having 1 foundational player that’s slightly lacking intensity is fine. Having 2 is a problem.


Find me a clip of any other foundational player under 24 saying they stay up till 6am playing video games and don’t know who’s even on the schedule and I’ll retract my comments.

Watch on YouTube

Here’s a clip of Giannis saying as a kid he had to sell sunglasses to help his family survive. This is the difference between a pampered superstar and one who plays ultra hard every game. Also why Zach (the least hyped between karl and Wiggins) could never be questioned on the effort end. Maybe his defense sucked but he had the best intensity of the 3.

[walk with me]

You definitely can coach "effort"

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

http://www.espn.com/olympics/summer04/basketball/columns/story?id=1860503

"The fact is these teams are very truly teams," Brown said of the Olympic field. "And they want to win it so badly that if you don't play with unbelievable effort, what happened last night is going to happen again and again and again.

"Again, there is no way a coach can coach effort. No way. You play on the U.S. Olympic team, and you play in the Olympics, and then you've got to question people's effort? You have a serious problem. I don't think they understand the urgency of this.

"They don't understand how important it is to the teams we are playing against, and, in a sense, I guess we feel like we're the Dream Team, and you just roll the ball out and something good is going to happen. It's just not there, it's just not possible."

Read on Twitter

Entering this final stretch of games. I didn’t have high hopes. Not because of thibs, not because jimmy is hurt. I simply don’t trust Kat and Wiggins to carry the team across the finish line.