Trade Talk

Jedzz · Post #1461 » by **Jedzz** » Mon Mar 4, 2019 4:17 am

Maybe Covington should be made available. His intensity and defense and occasional hot 3s are refreshing and made a big difference. But maybe that also makes him the asset desirable enough to get some things done. I'm not excited by how long he's been out with this type of injury. Be it held out on purpose or what the case be.

moss_is_1 · Post #1462 » by **moss_is_1** » Mon Mar 4, 2019 4:45 am

Domejandro wrote:If Minnesota jumps into the top three.

WAS: Andrew Wiggins, Josh Okogie, and #3
OUT: Bradley Beal

Thatd be amazing. Not sure theyd do it still.

shrink · Post #1463 » by **shrink** » Mon Mar 4, 2019 2:22 pm

Couple thoughts from the last few pages of the Trade Thread.

1. I agree with WormGuts and Klomp about being very careful about giving up picks to move bad salary like Dieng. The teams that benefit the most from moves like this are ones that can clear legitimate cap space and are free agent destinations - neither description fits Minnesota right now. Teams like us improve most by finding value in rookie draft picks, and having them locked up longterm on cheaper rookie scale deals. I am happy to see people understand there is value in getting off a contract like that, but it would really need to be a well-defined plan to be worth it for us to give up 1st rounders.

2. I agree with those who say that PHX might consider Teague (even though Suns fans that post here might not). People tend to believe that when a team does a rebuild, they need youth at every position. That isn’t true, and it can stymie the growth of the best young players - especially if they don’t have some experience at the PG position. I don’t like watching Teague’s style, but he’s a competent starter, and that team has had nothing close to even that level this year. Hopefully they learn from their indifference this season at fixing that problem, because it hurts the development and evaluation of their young potential stars.

As for Teague’s “expensive” price tag, let’s see how 2019 Free Agency shakes out. Many teams have lots of money, and PHX is going to be sitting on theirs while good free agents turn them down, and sign at better destinations. The fact that Teague is expiring might make his $19 mil deal a better choice than someone who is a little worse that wants $15 mil a year for 3-4 years.

shrink · Post #1464 » by **shrink** » Mon Mar 4, 2019 2:30 pm

3. Try not to get too carried along with the hype of how awful any single player or contract is. I’ve watched for years how the title of, “oh this guy is the worst deal in a decade!”-player seems to shift from one player to the next, to the next, every few month. Right now it’s Wiggins, but we can still remember that we said it about John Wall even before his injury was revealed. While I don’t have much faith in Andrew, nobody is giving up multiple unprotected picks in a salary dump of any player. Even if you think that price is accurate, owners and fans demand star talent for that type of price - not salary relief. Grit your teeth and try to stomach Wiggins - we need our picks, and we can’t afford the price another team would ask to take him.

Sanfranko · Post #1465 » by **Sanfranko** » Mon Mar 4, 2019 3:37 pm

Wiggins and Saric for Love

mplsfonz23 · Post #1466 » by **mplsfonz23** » Mon Mar 4, 2019 4:42 pm

moss_is_1 wrote:
Domejandro wrote:If Minnesota jumps into the top three.

WAS: Andrew Wiggins, Josh Okogie, and #3
OUT: Bradley Beal

Thatd be amazing. Not sure theyd do it still.

No freaking way!

I like Beal, but Josh and the #3 pick being on controlled contracts are worth more to the Wolves than Beal and 25 mil. per. IMO

shrink · Post #1467 » by **shrink** » Mon Mar 4, 2019 6:51 pm

Love does not fit for age, position, salary, injury-risk, defense, or his desire to be in Minnesota.

But aside from that ...

DaMplsKid · Post #1468 » by **DaMplsKid** » Mon Mar 4, 2019 7:36 pm

mplsfonz23 wrote:
moss_is_1 wrote:
Domejandro wrote:If Minnesota jumps into the top three.

WAS: Andrew Wiggins, Josh Okogie, and #3
OUT: Bradley Beal

Thatd be amazing. Not sure theyd do it still.

No freaking way!

I like Beal, but Josh and the #3 pick being on controlled contracts are worth more to the Wolves than Beal and 25 mil. per. IMO

Beal is the guy I would be targeting this off season too. I was hoping we could move Wiggins/ Saric and a 1st for him.

I just feel like Washington should be in a rebuild mold and want to get some asset. Beal would fit really nicely with Towns and Covington. I am not sure I would give up Okogie but could be talked into it if they take on some salary.

mplsfonz23 · Post #1469 » by **mplsfonz23** » Mon Mar 4, 2019 8:30 pm

DaMplsKid wrote:
mplsfonz23 wrote:
moss_is_1 wrote:Thatd be amazing. Not sure theyd do it still.

No freaking way!

I like Beal, but Josh and the #3 pick being on controlled contracts are worth more to the Wolves than Beal and 25 mil. per. IMO

Beal is the guy I would be targeting this off season too. I was hoping we could move Wiggins/ Saric and a 1st for him.

I just feel like Washington should be in a rebuild mold and want to get some asset. Beal would fit really nicely with Towns and Covington. I am not sure I would give up Okogie but could be talked into it if they take on some salary.

Not sure we have enough assets to get Beal. I don't want to give up Josh, and I sure don't think Washington would want Wiggins. Too many options and better deals than what we can offer.

Sanfranko · Post #1470 » by **Sanfranko** » Mon Mar 4, 2019 10:47 pm

shrink wrote:Love does not fit for age, position, salary, injury-risk, defense, or his desire to be in Minnesota.

But aside from that ...

Love is a Saric that doesn't suck and is actually good, hell of a 2nd option. And how do you know he objects coming to MN nowadays ? Age and injuries are concerns. But remember that Wiggins has permanent brain disease and needs a heart transplant to boot...

Plus Love in Mpls will bring extra $ to Papa Glen pockets.

alabamawolf · Post #1471 » by **alabamawolf** » Mon Mar 4, 2019 11:09 pm

Neeva wrote:No thank u seriously holiday couldnt get the pelicans more wins than the wolves with the unibrow and somehow he will get us over the hump?
Not giving up the lotto pick.
Holiday is one of the most overated players in the league along with tatum people overvalue them to much.

NOP finished 3rd in the West last season and this year was a circus with Davis rumors. The Wolves need a dynamic PG and they need to get rid of Wiggins. Holiday can get you 20 and play good defense. He’s big enough to switch onto SGs and it’d give the Wolves a good 3 man core to build around. His contract isn’t the most ideal but I’d take him over Wiggins over the next 4 years

Neeva · Post #1472 » by **Neeva** » Mon Mar 4, 2019 11:19 pm

Hello wolves were a bigger circus this year,
Would rather go after Beal or even Rusell. Holiday will
Be 29 soon also too told for our main core.

alabamawolf wrote:
Neeva wrote:No thank u seriously holiday couldnt get the pelicans more wins than the wolves with the unibrow and somehow he will get us over the hump?
Not giving up the lotto pick.
Holiday is one of the most overated players in the league along with tatum people overvalue them to much.

NOP finished 3rd in the West last season and this year was a circus with Davis rumors. The Wolves need a dynamic PG and they need to get rid of Wiggins. Holiday can get you 20 and play good defense. He’s big enough to switch onto SGs and it’d give the Wolves a good 3 man core to build around. His contract isn’t the most ideal but I’d take him over Wiggins over the next 4 years

shrink · Post #1473 » by **shrink** » Tue Mar 5, 2019 1:25 am

post0115 wrote:What do you guys think of D'Angelo Russell? Do you think we could or should try to get him this offseason? I've always been a fan and would love his fit on this team even beyond his relationship with KAT.

Maybe a sign and trade with Brooklyn in the offseason with us sending out our 1st round pick, Teague (expiring after option), and Okogie would get it done. Would have to sign him to a big contract like Lavine got too. They did already give Dinwiddie a 3 year $34mm extension.

I haven’t seen enough of Russell this year, but in general, I don’t like the idea of using much in assets in a sign and trade. As a free agent, a player will take the highest deal he can get from the 1-30 he may receive. For many teams, it’s not worth paying the same contract that the highest bidder is (unless we are talking about max deal players, where the highest bid is artificially deflated because of the CBA). Sign-and-trades as a whole have been greatly reduced since the last CBA anyway, so I think this is a long shot.

I will mention for others, since post already is aware, but the system is designed so that the primary way to add players like Russell is to have cap space, and for he to have a desire to get come to the new team over others. Unfortunately when we chose to give those big deals to Dieng and Wiggins, we placed our bets on the wrong horses, and probably forced ourselves out of that pathway.

Sanfranko · Post #1474 » by **Sanfranko** » Tue Mar 5, 2019 3:19 am

alabamawolf wrote:
Neeva wrote:No thank u seriously holiday couldnt get the pelicans more wins than the wolves with the unibrow and somehow he will get us over the hump?
Not giving up the lotto pick.
Holiday is one of the most overated players in the league along with tatum people overvalue them to much.

NOP finished 3rd in the West last season and this year was a circus with Davis rumors. The Wolves need a dynamic PG and they need to get rid of Wiggins. Holiday can get you 20 and play good defense. He’s big enough to switch onto SGs and it’d give the Wolves a good 3 man core to build around. His contract isn’t the most ideal but I’d take him over Wiggins over the next 4 years

Holiday is actually a SG for Pels, that's the position we wants to play. That's why they had Rondo last season and playing scrub Payton this season. Pelicans also finished 6th (not 3rd) last season. Please learn some facts before making your posts.

Post #1475 » by **Domejandro** » Tue Mar 5, 2019 4:00 am

shrink wrote:Love does not fit for age, position, salary, injury-risk, defense, or his desire to be in Minnesota.

But aside from that ...

I respectfully disagree.

AGE: Yep, he is thirty. In fairness, Robert Covington is 28, so we cannot drag our feet forever, but he definitely is not perfectly in the timeline.

Position: I fully disagree, he is an amazing fit next to Karl-Anthony Towns. Great floor-spacer, terrific rebounder, and excellent passer, he is an awesome fit.

Salary: Kevin Love is making substantially less than Andrew Wiggins long-term, his contract actually declines in the last couple of years. Plus, we would have him locked in as our Power-Forward, making it so we do not have to pay Dario on top of Wiggins.

Defense: He has been roughly a league average defensive player by every metric for quite a few years now, he really isn't bad on that side of the ball.

Desire: He is in Cleveland with no hope of seeing the Playoffs any time soon. Sure, the reunion is slightly awkward at first, but he has his Championship now. No reason to stay in Cleveland over Minnesota.

Switching Andrew Wiggins for Kevin Love is worth Dario and #12, in my opinion. Now, if Minnesota ends up at #8 or #9, the discussion definitely becomes a bit more difficult.

Post #1476 » by **Domejandro** » Tue Mar 5, 2019 5:42 am

I get I have basically been smoking crack with all of my hypotheticals lately, but its hard not to sling these out there given the poor quality of play.

Minnesota gets the First Overall Draft Pick.

MIN: Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday
OUT: Andrew Wiggins, Gorgui Dieng, Dario Šarić, Josh Okogie, #1, and Minnesota's Unprotected 2021 First Round Draft Pick

Why for Minnesota? Go all-in, and try to win a Championship, extraordinarily self-explanatory.

Why not for Minnesota? If the year ends up flopping (team is made of glass) and Anthony Davis leaves, Minnesota would be royally ****.

Assuming Minnesota finds a deal for Jeff Teague elsewhere, or he opts-out.

Tyus Jones / Derrick Rose
Jrue Holiday / Derrick Rose
Robert Covington / Luol Deng
Anthony Davis / Keita Bates-Diop
Karl-Anthony Towns / Taj Gibson?

NOP: Andrew Wiggins, Gorgui Dieng, Dario Šarić, Josh Okogie, #1, and Minnesota's Unprotected 2021 First Round Draft Pick
OUT: Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday

Why for New Orleans? Start off the rebuild with Zion Williamson, Josh Okogie, Dario Šarić, and whomever else they draft. Hope Andrew Wiggins wakes up in a new environment and Anthony Davis ditches Minnesota (making the other pick great).

Why not for New Orleans? Start off the rebuild financially strapped for two seasons, Andrew Wiggins' contract blows.

theGreatRC · Post #1477 » by **theGreatRC** » Tue Mar 5, 2019 6:54 am

Domejandro wrote:I get I have basically been smoking crack with all of my hypotheticals lately, but its hard not to sling these out there given the poor quality of play.

Minnesota gets the First Overall Draft Pick.

MIN: Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday
OUT: Andrew Wiggins, Gorgui Dieng, Dario Šarić, Josh Okogie, #1, and Minnesota's Unprotected 2021 First Round Draft Pick

Why for Minnesota? Go all-in, and try to win a Championship, extraordinarily self-explanatory.

Why not for Minnesota? If the year ends up flopping (team is made of glass) and Anthony Davis leaves, Minnesota would be royally ****.

Assuming Minnesota finds a deal for Jeff Teague elsewhere, or he opts-out.

Tyus Jones / Derrick Rose
Jrue Holiday / Derrick Rose
Robert Covington / Luol Deng
Anthony Davis / Keita Bates-Diop
Karl-Anthony Towns / Taj Gibson?

NOP: Andrew Wiggins, Gorgui Dieng, Dario Šarić, Josh Okogie, #1, and Minnesota's Unprotected 2021 First Round Draft Pick
OUT: Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday

Why for New Orleans? Start off the rebuild with Zion Williamson, Josh Okogie, Dario Šarić, and whomever else they draft. Hope Andrew Wiggins wakes up in a new environment and Anthony Davis ditches Minnesota (making the other pick great).

Why not for New Orleans? Start off the rebuild financially strapped for two seasons, Andrew Wiggins' contract blows.

Rather take Zion & eat Wiggs contract if it came down to that tbh. The thought of a KAT/Zion duo already makes my fandom build up again, imagine the hype the Wolves would have with a rookie Zion

King Malta · Post #1478 » by **King Malta** » Tue Mar 5, 2019 12:17 pm

If you somehow end up with #1 you take Zion, every time. By the time you're gonna extend Zion Wiggins is probably a moveable contract.

minimus · Post #1479 » by **minimus** » Tue Mar 5, 2019 12:35 pm

King Malta wrote:If you somehow end up with #1 you take Zion, every time. By the time you're gonna extend Zion Wiggins is probably a moveable contract.

I am afraid that Zion wont be able to stay healthy. At least he needs to be careful like Embiid. Which is already a big red flag to me. I'd take AD + Jrue for Wiggins and Zion on any day of week. AD-KAT-RoCo-Jrue is probably best defense-offense lineup in the league.

Post #1480 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue Mar 5, 2019 1:15 pm

I'd probably trade Zion for Davis if Davis committed long term, otherwise probably not.