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Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future

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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#281 » by Jedzz » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:36 pm

DaKid wrote:Wiggins is here to stay. I think he will be significantly better next year. Saunders will overhaul the offense to get the most out of him and hopefully he puts some muscle on over the summer.


Kawhi Leonard is an inch or two shorter, yet looks like a giant compared to Wiggins. Leonard is probably built 1/3 heavier. Wiggins has been a twig since he started. I don't see him adding any more mass until he's 40 and resting on his lounger in retirement. He's been in the gym since his rookie season, Wiggins isn't weight lifting averse like a Bjelica is. But it's not really amounting to any noticeable mass and weight.

The only way I see Wiggins increasing output is by the team doing what they did with Towns/Wiggins in 2015. Run every possession through them and they can each average 21-24. But even if they each average 30 pts on 45 possessions each that's only 60 points and we lose again. Because it doesn't leave much for others to pitch in with. Nevermind how good anyone else is. There won't be enough shots for them to help with. 29 wins in 2015, 31 wins in 2016. That's about the ceiling running that one two punch a few are asking for lately. Because it's more of a 1.25 punch with one of them rarely playing efficiently. If anyone remembers those days, we often had Lavine carrying a light load many nights trying to spark something off the bench. Wiggins could bring is possession efficiency up by relearning how to finish at the net (he's forgotten). But neither he nor Ryan appears to want him playing that way. I'm not rebuying tickets based on that fictional story. Going to need a better one. They at least have to start audibly explaining how they might be changing what he's doing. They haven't done that at all. So why assume it? Watch the Wiggins videos, he's above it all.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#282 » by wesleyt95 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:16 pm

Wiggins still has a pretty good chance to become Demar DeRozan with a better 3pt shot if you put your emotions aside and look at the trajectory. Demar DeRozan avg’d 20ppg on 41fg% and 28% from 3 in year 6... Wiggins in reality will most likely average 20 on better 2p and 3p efficiency and I’m just stating facts, Wiggins doesn’t have the swagger (yet) but he’s STILL a potential star in the making who hasn’t entered his prime.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#283 » by wesleyt95 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:33 pm

Wiggins year 1-5
19.4ppg (46% 2p, 33% 3p) 2.2ast 4rb

DeRozan year 1-5
16.3ppg (46% 2p, 23% 3p) 2.2ast 3.6rb

Just stating facts
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#284 » by Jedzz » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:12 pm

wesleyt95 wrote:Wiggins year 1-5
19.4ppg (46% 2p, 33% 3p) 2.2ast 4rb

DeRozan year 1-5
16.3ppg (46% 2p, 23% 3p) 2.2ast 3.6rb

Just stating facts


And DeRozan's team traded him away from a playoff team and brought in someone better.

After people saw Wiggins for what he was willing to offer and his skill set, I've read plenty of people describe DeRozan as Wiggin's ceiling. So you aren't off in trying to compare them.

I don't exactly agree with broadly comparing their total first 5 years however. It's a little disengenuous or simply being generous if you ask me. DeRozan had to work up to the level of his 5th season which he has basically maintained since. Starting at 21 minutes a game in his first season and working up to 38 mins a game by 5th. His first year he avg'd maybe 8 points a game. He showed progression to becoming who he became by year 5.

Wiggins on the other hand started at 36 mins a game year one, every single game starting 82,81,82,82, now 73 games per season. Rookie year he avg'd 16pts. Into the 20s by year 2 and 3. Then he dropped off the cliff. Boards only up by 0.2 since year 1. Assists only up by 0.1. FT % down. FG% down. 3FG% barely noticebly up 0.022. Where is the progression since year 2? Until this season his minutes never dropped below 35 and this year it was 34.8. No players ever stole time from him. Where is the progression to become his best him? Should we expect the real best him next year because he came out and said next year he wants to be a star now?

Him improving greatly over this season might, might get him back to DeRozan level now. DeRozan averged 23 pts a game from year 2 through 5. He has avg'd 21.5 pts/g from year 2 until today. Comparing Wiggins' year 2-5 (axing the rookie years of both), Wiggins has avg'd 20.1 pts/g. Not quite the same comparison you showed. They aren't the same player because DeRozan is putting in more work inside in order to keep that scoring up, because his 3pt shot just isn't there. That leads to more FT attempts and at over .80 DeRozan is bringing in the goods that way. Wiggins could leap his per game average to 24-25 he he could do anything around the net anymore and then also hit his FTs much better than he does. Does anyone expect it?

I would argue we are only likey to see Wiggins pts increase if he gets his FT and FG percentages back up to his first two season levels or better.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#285 » by UnFadeable21 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:51 pm

Wigs and Roco are the X factors for this team to make the playoffs. We need Roco to stay healthy and lockdown the small forward spot and we need wigs to be a dominant shooting guard avg 20-5-4 with above average defense.

If we could be top 10 offense and middle of the pack defense, we will be solid
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#286 » by yawner » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:01 pm

I don´t question Wiggins´talent. I question his willingness to play basketball and his IQ. Both are nearly nonexistent.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#287 » by Jedzz » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:02 pm

Imagine if Wiggins was like any of these loud freak players we see in the playoffs second level right now. He's got that low voice. Imagine him playing with 100% effort, then complaining loudly to the refs like Green Durant or Harden. It would echo in the arena as the entire crowd goes silent in awe. We've never ever seen him get even overly excited about anything, much less mad. Guy needs to find a competitive fire from somewhere. I'm not advocating that he starts complaining. Just that he starts playing like any of this matters to him.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#288 » by Klomp » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:17 pm

Jedzz wrote:We've never ever seen him get even overly excited about anything, much less mad. Guy needs to find a competitive fire from somewhere. I'm not advocating that he starts complaining. Just that he starts playing like any of this matters to him.

He's had moments, but they're few and very far between
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#289 » by Nick K » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:00 pm

Jedzz wrote:Imagine if Wiggins was like any of these loud freak players we see in the playoffs second level right now. He's got that low voice. Imagine him playing with 100% effort, then complaining loudly to the refs like Green Durant or Harden. It would echo in the arena as the entire crowd goes silent in awe. We've never ever seen him get even overly excited about anything, much less mad. Guy needs to find a competitive fire from somewhere. I'm not advocating that he starts complaining. Just that he starts playing like any of this matters to him.


Yes, yes! I did see him show emotion just once this year after a monster put back jam. It was great to see. A huge smile too. I was asking myself, who is this guy?

I gave up on Wigs early this last season. I couldn't take it any more. I must say that I have incredible powers though. Once I give up on a guy it's only a matter of time that he turns his game around and kills it! :D

Could it happen to Wigs?

Be sure to give me the credit if he does. :)
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#290 » by Dewey » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:14 pm

Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:We've never ever seen him get even overly excited about anything, much less mad. Guy needs to find a competitive fire from somewhere. I'm not advocating that he starts complaining. Just that he starts playing like any of this matters to him.

He's had moments, but they're few and very far between

ones of two things...
1. He clearly does not get it and never will
2. He will regret the lacidasical effort someday when its all over.

I think its #1... seriously, this is his time to shine in the NBA and potentially be an all-time great
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#291 » by TwolvesFanRome » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:37 pm

yawner wrote:I don´t question Wiggins´talent. I question his willingness to play basketball and his IQ. Both are nearly nonexistent.


A M E N
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#292 » by GopherIt! » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:09 am

we are so screwed. lol.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#293 » by minimus » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:48 am

If Kawhi leaves TOR, can we trade Wiggins for Lowry? Lowry has been unimpressive, but he has shorter contract, while TOR might get the best from Wiggins playing in hometown.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#294 » by yawner » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:38 am

minimus wrote:If Kawhi leaves TOR, can we trade Wiggins for Lowry? Lowry has been unimpressive, but he has shorter contract, while TOR might get the best from Wiggins playing in hometown.


Wiggins and Teague + a second round for Lowry and Norman Powell? Would the Raptors do such a thing? They are not dumb.

Wiggins x Love? And send Love to a third franchise. Lakers? I don´t think they will get allstar free agents. 8-)
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#295 » by shrink » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:39 am

minimus wrote:If Kawhi leaves TOR, can we trade Wiggins for Lowry? Lowry has been unimpressive, but he has shorter contract, while TOR might get the best from Wiggins playing in hometown.

Lowry costs $6 mil more, at a time when we are trying to stay under the lux and also fill 5-6 roster spots. Maybe we could include Teague’s expiring to replace Lowry at PG, and take back Norman Powell, but this adds $3 mil to TOR.

For value, we would need to toss in the #10 pick to get the Raptors to consider it, and that’s a tough piece to part with.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#296 » by minimus » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:48 am

shrink wrote:
minimus wrote:If Kawhi leaves TOR, can we trade Wiggins for Lowry? Lowry has been unimpressive, but he has shorter contract, while TOR might get the best from Wiggins playing in hometown.

Lowry costs $6 mil more, at a time when we are trying to stay under the lux and also fill 5-6 roster spots. Maybe we could include Teague’s expiring to replace Lowry at PG, and take back Norman Powell, but this adds $3 mil to TOR.

For value, we would need to toss in the #10 pick to get the Raptors to consider it, and that’s a tough piece to part with.


Dieng, Teague, Wiggins, PHI SRP for Lowry, Ibaka, Powell. We eat Powell contract, but keep our FRP. But we will be able to rebuild in two years after Ibaka and Lowry contracts expire.

KAT/Ibaka
Saric/Ibaka/KBD
RoCo/KBD/Cameron
Okogie/Powell
Lowry/Tyus
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#297 » by yawner » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:50 am

minimus wrote:
shrink wrote:
minimus wrote:If Kawhi leaves TOR, can we trade Wiggins for Lowry? Lowry has been unimpressive, but he has shorter contract, while TOR might get the best from Wiggins playing in hometown.

Lowry costs $6 mil more, at a time when we are trying to stay under the lux and also fill 5-6 roster spots. Maybe we could include Teague’s expiring to replace Lowry at PG, and take back Norman Powell, but this adds $3 mil to TOR.

For value, we would need to toss in the #10 pick to get the Raptors to consider it, and that’s a tough piece to part with.


Dieng, Teague, Wiggins, PHI SRP for Lowry, Ibaka, Powell. We eat Powell contract, but keep our FRP. But we will be able to rebuild in two years after Ibaka and Lowry contracts expire.

KAT/Ibaka
Saric/Ibaka/KBD
RoCo/KBD/Cameron
Okogie/Powell
Lowry/Tyus


You are giving them 2 huge contracts in exchange of expiring contracts.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#298 » by minimus » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:54 am

yawner wrote:
minimus wrote:
shrink wrote:Lowry costs $6 mil more, at a time when we are trying to stay under the lux and also fill 5-6 roster spots. Maybe we could include Teague’s expiring to replace Lowry at PG, and take back Norman Powell, but this adds $3 mil to TOR.

For value, we would need to toss in the #10 pick to get the Raptors to consider it, and that’s a tough piece to part with.


Dieng, Teague, Wiggins, PHI SRP for Lowry, Ibaka, Powell. We eat Powell contract, but keep our FRP. But we will be able to rebuild in two years after Ibaka and Lowry contracts expire.

KAT/Ibaka
Saric/Ibaka/KBD
RoCo/KBD/Cameron
Okogie/Powell
Lowry/Tyus


You are giving them 2 huge contracts in exchange of expiring contracts.


You are right, I will be ok if we can trade Dieng, Teague, Wiggins, 10th pick for Lowry, Ibaka, Powell.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#299 » by KGdaBom » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:56 pm

minimus wrote:
yawner wrote:
minimus wrote:
Dieng, Teague, Wiggins, PHI SRP for Lowry, Ibaka, Powell. We eat Powell contract, but keep our FRP. But we will be able to rebuild in two years after Ibaka and Lowry contracts expire.

KAT/Ibaka
Saric/Ibaka/KBD
RoCo/KBD/Cameron
Okogie/Powell
Lowry/Tyus


You are giving them 2 huge contracts in exchange of expiring contracts.


You are right, I will be ok if we can trade Dieng, Teague, Wiggins, 10th pick for Lowry, Ibaka, Powell.

I think Dieng showed he can be a quality player if used correctly at the end of last season. I think we are best off just keeping him considering the cost of trading him.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#300 » by Folklore » Sun May 5, 2019 12:37 am

The way Kyle lowry is playing there's no way Leonard is staying in Toronto.After he leaves the Raps will have no choice but to blow things up to build around Siakam. I think they'll be forced to make a trade for Wiggins with Kyle just for the fans and his upside because they wont be able to get another big free agent after they lose KL.

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