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Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future

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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#441 » by Dewey » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:53 pm

I've been disappointed that BigWig has not progressed as many have noted, but I'm far less willing to give up assets (picks, etc.) to unload him. Might as well give him a year with these guys and see what happens. I expect improvement, and if Culver can play, it might be enough to trade him without giving up picks.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#442 » by Calinks » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:15 pm

I've been down on Wiggins but all it takes is one good season for his stock to go way up. Maybe he finally improves and for some reason plays really well alongside Culver, they develop a chemistry, then we are in a totally different position. If Wiggins just became decent, doesn't have to be great, just needs to be a notable positive, we are in way better shape.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#443 » by Dewey » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:27 pm

Calinks wrote:I've been down on Wiggins but all it takes is one good season for his stock to go way up. Maybe he finally improves and for some reason plays really well alongside Culver, they develop a chemistry, then we are in a totally different position. If Wiggins just became decent, doesn't have to be great, just needs to be a notable positive, we are in way better shape.

I agree ... be nice to see him start by excelling at 1 thing and try to define his role. He's largely been stereo-typed (by being the #1 and max contract) to be more than what he is, but ya, he could have a reboot season....
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#444 » by Macwolf527 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:20 pm

Calinks wrote:I've been down on Wiggins but all it takes is one good season for his stock to go way up. Maybe he finally improves and for some reason plays really well alongside Culver, they develop a chemistry, then we are in a totally different position. If Wiggins just became decent, doesn't have to be great, just needs to be a notable positive, we are in way better shape.


The combination of Culver/Covington are actually the ideal wing partners for Wiggins. Mainly because both can affect the game with needing to score. Culver is beneficial without testing solely based on his ability to handle the ball. His handles are the antithesis of Wigg's, because he keeps the ball close to his body enabling him to change direction real fast. What's really going to make Culver the perfect wing partner for Wiggins is his ability to rebound from the SG spot and knock down the 3pt shot at a high clip. Until I see him do those, I give the edge to Covington. I doubt that Wiggins will ever average more than 6 rebounds a game, most likely coming in around 4-5 (which is sad), so we need our SG to rebound at a high clip or have a PF that grabs everything that Towns doesn't.

If Wiggs give us 20 pts, 5 rbs, and 4 apg on a consistent basis, I'll consider it a WIN. He absolutely must become more of a facilitator if he's going to have the ball in his hands as the 2nd leading scorer on the team.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#445 » by Klomp » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:47 pm

Something else to look forward to...

If we hypothetically ran a lineup of Culver-Okogie-Wiggins-Covington-Towns, Wiggins would match up defensively against the worst offensive player on the other team. We're so used to seeing him get killed by opposing stars, but better defenders around him can make him look better.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#446 » by King Malta » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:14 am

I was keen to dump him if we were going to chase another big contract (D'Lo specifically), but seeing as that's fallen through there's no real need to use assets to move him this season IMO.

If we get a neutral or positive offer I'd take it and move him on I think, but outside of that unlikely outcome it's worth seeing if there's any improvement with the new regime given we probably won't make a lot of noise this season.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#447 » by delux55 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:03 am

Like many have said and what I've thought all along move him to sg full time. If he cant be productive positive player playing the 2 then make him a sixth man.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#448 » by youngthegiant » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:32 am

Just want to see if anyone has information on Wiggins. He had 70+ dunks in each of his previous seasons but only finished with 39 in 2018-19. Did he have any injury, or maybe he wants out of Minnesota.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#449 » by Jedzz » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:42 am

youngthegiant wrote:Just want to see if anyone has information on Wiggins. He had 70+ dunks in each of his previous seasons but only finished with 39 in 2018-19. Did he have any injury, or maybe he wants out of Minnesota.


39 seems high for last season. I would have guessed 10. Don't think it changed much after Ryan took over. Or maybe i watched less after they shut down Rose and other vets.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#450 » by Crazy-Canuck » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:50 am

youngthegiant wrote:Just want to see if anyone has information on Wiggins. He had 70+ dunks in each of his previous seasons but only finished with 39 in 2018-19. Did he have any injury, or maybe he wants out of Minnesota.





Wiggs would get at least one dunk a game because of rubio alone. Ricky would hit him on cuts, transition, or lobs. Teague does none of those. teague is a poor lob thrower and post entry passer. Couple teague being his pg and wiggs new role as the floor spacer for KAT and jimmy; you have less dunks. Plus his new role allowed an already passive player to become more passive.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#451 » by youngthegiant » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:56 am

Crazy-Canuck wrote:
youngthegiant wrote:Just want to see if anyone has information on Wiggins. He had 70+ dunks in each of his previous seasons but only finished with 39 in 2018-19. Did he have any injury, or maybe he wants out of Minnesota.





Wiggs would get at least one dunk a game because of rubio alone. Ricky would hit him on cuts, transition, or lobs. Teague does none of those. teague is a poor lob thrower and post entry passer. Couple teague being his pg and wiggs new role as the floor spacer for KAT and jimmy; you have less dunks. Plus his new role allowed an already passive player to become more passive.
But he did have 58 dunks the previous year playing with Jimmy and Teague. 58 to 39 is still a big drop.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#452 » by zDank » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:59 am

delux55 wrote:Like many have said and what I've thought all along move him to sg full time. If he cant be productive positive player playing the 2 then make him a sixth man.




I get the putting Wiggs at the 2 theory but the thing is teams are going to put their best wing defenders on who they think is the opposing teams best perimeter player, with Covington’s only real offense coming from catch and shoot opportunities it will always be easy for teams to put the weaker of their wing defenders on him. What it really comes down to is running the correct screens and rubs to get switches that put Wiggins in the matchups we feel he can win. So whether he is playing the 2, 3 or even small ball 4 in Rosas’ 3 wing lineups it’s about getting him in the right situations, you watch good teams play Golden State and they basically do whatever they can to get Steph Curry ISO’d on the guy they want with the ball.

Also if you look back at Andrew’s 40 point game against the thunder (probably his best game of the season) the majority of his buckets come against Paul George and Jerami Grant, two really good defenders that are as tall or taller than AW, so the theory that he can’t score against taller players is kind of silly. More than likely in matchups he doesn’t have a height advantage he’ll have quickness advantage.

Like has been said many times with him it all comes down to his mentality, does he recognize what advantages he has in any given matchup and does he want to exploit them and dominate his opponent because we all know he has the talent to do so.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#453 » by Klomp » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:16 am

zDank wrote:I get the putting Wiggs at the 2 theory but the thing is teams are going to put their best wing defenders on who they think is the opposing teams best perimeter player, with Covington’s only real offense coming from catch and shoot opportunities it will always be easy for teams to put the weaker of their wing defenders on him. What it really comes down to is running the correct screens and rubs to get switches that put Wiggins in the matchups we feel he can win. So whether he is playing the 2, 3 or even small ball 4 in Rosas’ 3 wing lineups it’s about getting him in the right situations, you watch good teams play Golden State and they basically do whatever they can to get Steph Curry ISO’d on the guy they want with the ball.

Also if you look back at Andrew’s 40 point game against the thunder (probably his best game of the season) the majority of his buckets come against Paul George and Jerami Grant, two really good defenders that are as tall or taller than AW, so the theory that he can’t score against taller players is kind of silly. More than likely in matchups he doesn’t have a height advantage he’ll have quickness advantage.

It's a combination of a height advantage and a strength advantage. And that's why you'll rarely see smaller SGs guarding Covington (not counting switches).

In the Dec 23 game Wiggins scored 30, when OKC had Westbrook and Schroder lineups, they didn't have one of them guarding Covington. They were guarding Wiggins.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#454 » by Crazy-Canuck » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:20 am

youngthegiant wrote:
Crazy-Canuck wrote:
youngthegiant wrote:Just want to see if anyone has information on Wiggins. He had 70+ dunks in each of his previous seasons but only finished with 39 in 2018-19. Did he have any injury, or maybe he wants out of Minnesota.





Wiggs would get at least one dunk a game because of rubio alone. Ricky would hit him on cuts, transition, or lobs. Teague does none of those. teague is a poor lob thrower and post entry passer. Couple teague being his pg and wiggs new role as the floor spacer for KAT and jimmy; you have less dunks. Plus his new role allowed an already passive player to become more passive.
But he did have 58 dunks the previous year playing with Jimmy and Teague. 58 to 39 is still a big drop.


He also dealt with a leg injury last year where he couldn't jump off his right leg for a while.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#455 » by Klomp » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:36 am

youngthegiant wrote:Just want to see if anyone has information on Wiggins. He had 70+ dunks in each of his previous seasons but only finished with 39 in 2018-19. Did he have any injury, or maybe he wants out of Minnesota.

I think he maybe let what Jeff Teague kept saying go to his head. Teague repeatedly has said he's "done dunking" because of the injury risk. That being said, Teague keeps dunking. Wiggins should pay attention to that.

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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#456 » by Crazy-Canuck » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:32 am

Klomp wrote:
youngthegiant wrote:Just want to see if anyone has information on Wiggins. He had 70+ dunks in each of his previous seasons but only finished with 39 in 2018-19. Did he have any injury, or maybe he wants out of Minnesota.

I think he maybe let what Jeff Teague kept saying go to his head. Teague repeatedly has said he's "done dunking" because of the injury risk. That being said, Teague keeps dunking. Wiggins should pay attention to that.

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As much as I dislike some of his play on the court, teague seems to be a funny guy and a fantastic teammate.

Wiggs must throw down some fierce dunks in practice.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#457 » by zDank » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:02 am

Klomp wrote:
zDank wrote:I get the putting Wiggs at the 2 theory but the thing is teams are going to put their best wing defenders on who they think is the opposing teams best perimeter player, with Covington’s only real offense coming from catch and shoot opportunities it will always be easy for teams to put the weaker of their wing defenders on him. What it really comes down to is running the correct screens and rubs to get switches that put Wiggins in the matchups we feel he can win. So whether he is playing the 2, 3 or even small ball 4 in Rosas’ 3 wing lineups it’s about getting him in the right situations, you watch good teams play Golden State and they basically do whatever they can to get Steph Curry ISO’d on the guy they want with the ball.

Also if you look back at Andrew’s 40 point game against the thunder (probably his best game of the season) the majority of his buckets come against Paul George and Jerami Grant, two really good defenders that are as tall or taller than AW, so the theory that he can’t score against taller players is kind of silly. More than likely in matchups he doesn’t have a height advantage he’ll have quickness advantage.

It's a combination of a height advantage and a strength advantage. And that's why you'll rarely see smaller SGs guarding Covington (not counting switches).

In the Dec 23 game Wiggins scored 30, when OKC had Westbrook and Schroder lineups, they didn't have one of them guarding Covington. They were guarding Wiggins.



Actually the majority of that game it was George on Wiggins with some Ferguson and Westbrook as well, while Covington was manned by Abrines (terrible defender) most of the game.

Most of the time when they ran their 2 pg lineup we played a backcourt of Tyus (or Bayless) and Okogie to match it but late in the game when we did play AW at the SG during their 2 pg lineup they DID in fact put Westbrook on Covington with George on Wiggins and Schroeder on Tyus.

Wiggins did get a fair amount of post ups on Schroeder but most of them came off of switches which goes back to my original point of getting the right matchups for him through running an offense rather than just saying put him at SG cuz then the other team’s SG has to guard him.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#458 » by SaintS » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:31 am

AW decline participation on WC in China.
I don't know does he had some conflict with federation or smth els ?
I see a good sign with this decision only if he will spent the whole summer working on his weaknesses.

In another way i can't understand Wiggins.
Canada has a good team, for sure they won't be in a final, but may be it's possible to fight for the 3-d place.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#459 » by Crazy-Canuck » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:38 am

zDank wrote:
Klomp wrote:
zDank wrote:I get the putting Wiggs at the 2 theory but the thing is teams are going to put their best wing defenders on who they think is the opposing teams best perimeter player, with Covington’s only real offense coming from catch and shoot opportunities it will always be easy for teams to put the weaker of their wing defenders on him. What it really comes down to is running the correct screens and rubs to get switches that put Wiggins in the matchups we feel he can win. So whether he is playing the 2, 3 or even small ball 4 in Rosas’ 3 wing lineups it’s about getting him in the right situations, you watch good teams play Golden State and they basically do whatever they can to get Steph Curry ISO’d on the guy they want with the ball.

Also if you look back at Andrew’s 40 point game against the thunder (probably his best game of the season) the majority of his buckets come against Paul George and Jerami Grant, two really good defenders that are as tall or taller than AW, so the theory that he can’t score against taller players is kind of silly. More than likely in matchups he doesn’t have a height advantage he’ll have quickness advantage.

It's a combination of a height advantage and a strength advantage. And that's why you'll rarely see smaller SGs guarding Covington (not counting switches).

In the Dec 23 game Wiggins scored 30, when OKC had Westbrook and Schroder lineups, they didn't have one of them guarding Covington. They were guarding Wiggins.



Actually the majority of that game it was George on Wiggins with some Ferguson and Westbrook as well, while Covington was manned by Abrines (terrible defender) most of the game.

Most of the time when they ran their 2 pg lineup we played a backcourt of Tyus (or Bayless) and Okogie to match it but late in the game when we did play AW at the SG during their 2 pg lineup they DID in fact put Westbrook on Covington with George on Wiggins and Schroeder on Tyus.

Wiggins did get a fair amount of post ups on Schroeder but most of them came off of switches which goes back to my original point of getting the right matchups for him through running an offense rather than just saying put him at SG cuz then the other team’s SG has to guard him.



The best perimeter defender will always take wiggs because our other wings are all non threats.

When wiggs is given the ball to facilitate like he does in the oklahoma game, he gets engaged and it also forces the opposing player to work that much harder to defend him.

When wiggs is used as the floor spacer, hes often hovering around the 3 pt line waiting for kick out which he will then shoot it or take a couple of dribbles to take a long 2. This also gives the opposing defender to kind of lay back and play 2 while conserving energy.

I dont think its as much about the position as it is his role in the offense.

I think playing him as the spot up guy was a bad idea and basically feeds his nature to ball watch. Flip figured out. Smitch figured it out. Thibs was kind of figuring it out, then the jimmy trade happened. And that basically sums up his last 2 years.
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Re: Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future 

Post#460 » by zDank » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:55 pm

Klomp wrote:

The best perimeter defender will always take wiggs because our other wings are all non threats.

When wiggs is given the ball to facilitate like he does in the oklahoma game, he gets engaged and it also forces the opposing player to work that much harder to defend him.

When wiggs is used as the floor spacer, hes often hovering around the 3 pt line waiting for kick out which he will then shoot it or take a couple of dribbles to take a long 2. This also gives the opposing defender to kind of lay back and play 2 while conserving energy.

I dont think its as much about the position as it is his role in the offense.

I think playing him as the spot up guy was a bad idea and basically feeds his nature to ball watch. Flip figured out. Smitch figured it out. Thibs was kind of figuring it out, then the jimmy trade happened. And that basically sums up his last 2 years.



Which is what I said and then you tried to pull out a specific game/lineup to discredit me that you happened to be wrong about. Teams are not scared to put smaller guys on Covington because he has very little face up or post up offense, he is a catch and shoot guy, which is a threat every team needs but is easier to defend then a guy that can go get his own shot.

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