Tom Thibodeau fired as Coach and VP of basketball.

[walk with me]

Exactly. That $20M is a sunk cost.

Thibs was the biggest coach on the market and Glen went out and spent top dollar to get him. Really a bummer that he turned out to be terrible.

I think strictly from a performance POV him being fired is still kind of ridiculous. He made the playoffs and the team was coming around recently.
.

Eh, I don't know that 47 wins and a 8th seed is really what your hoping for when you make the Jimmy Butler trade, and if you are forced to trade him the next year and end up missing the playoffs, that has to be considered a failure.

He didn’t miss the playoffs yet and he also had the team as good as 3rd place. I think you also have to take into consideration the fact Glen intervened by fully maxing Wiggins without even letting him hit the market to see his true value.

It’s a very tough proposition. Pulling the trigger in the off season would have made sense if it were to happen but at the moment wasn’t really justified beyond the fact that fans just didn’t like him and he rubbed people the wrong way. In terms of W and Ls he still was fighting for the playoffs and was still winning games (and losing some also)

[Worm Guts]

I think strictly from a performance POV him being fired is still kind of ridiculous. He made the playoffs and the team was coming around recently.
.

Eh, I don't know that 47 wins and a 8th seed is really what your hoping for when you make the Jimmy Butler trade, and if you are forced to trade him the next year and end up missing the playoffs, that has to be considered a failure.

He didn’t miss the playoffs yet and he also had the team as good as 3rd place. I think you also have to take into consideration the fact Glen intervened by fully maxing Wiggins without even letting him hit the market to see his true value.

It’s a very tough proposition. Pulling the trigger in the off season would have made sense if it were to happen but at the moment wasn’t really justified beyond the fact that fans just didn’t like him and he rubbed people the wrong way. In terms of W and Ls he still was fighting for the playoffs and was still winning games (and losing some also)

You can complain that Glen maxed Wiggins, but I think you have to take into account where this franchise was when Thibodeau took over. You can say they hadn't made the playoffs in forever, but they also had what was perceived to be a lot of good young talent. Just about anyone could have traded the young talent for veterans and made the playoffs, that didn't take Thibodeau. I think the goal for Taylor (and most Wolves fans) was to develop the talent and build something that would last for while. Unfortunately, it's seems none of the young talent developed defensively under Thibs (whether that's his fault or not) and ultimately Thibodeau changed paths without convincing Taylor, and it has resulted in what has happened this season.

[KGdaBom]

That may have been the reason, but it takes a lot of ticket sales to add up to $20Million.

At that point you’re double losing money. Atleast if he cuts ties now he can make good on the business end

Exactly. That $20M is a sunk cost.

Thibs was the biggest coach on the market and Glen went out and spent top dollar to get him. Really a bummer that he turned out to be terrible.

He was actually pretty good.

[walk with me]

Eh, I don't know that 47 wins and a 8th seed is really what your hoping for when you make the Jimmy Butler trade, and if you are forced to trade him the next year and end up missing the playoffs, that has to be considered a failure.

He didn’t miss the playoffs yet and he also had the team as good as 3rd place. I think you also have to take into consideration the fact Glen intervened by fully maxing Wiggins without even letting him hit the market to see his true value.

It’s a very tough proposition. Pulling the trigger in the off season would have made sense if it were to happen but at the moment wasn’t really justified beyond the fact that fans just didn’t like him and he rubbed people the wrong way. In terms of W and Ls he still was fighting for the playoffs and was still winning games (and losing some also)

You can complain that Glen maxed Wiggins, but I think you have to take into account where this franchise was when Thibodeau took over. You can say they hadn't made the playoffs in forever, but they also had what was perceived to be a lot of good young talent. Just about anyone could have traded the young talent for veterans and made the playoffs, that didn't take Thibodeau. I think the goal for Taylor (and most Wolves fans) was to develop the talent and build something that would last for while. Unfortunately, it's seems none of the young talent developed defensively under Thibs (whether that's his fault or not) and ultimately Thibodeau changed paths without convincing Taylor, and it has resulted in what has happened this season.

That’s why I say he was all wrong from day 1.... everyone wanted warm and fuzzy tanking and thibs is a consummate work horse. After last year my assessment was that he shouldn’t have been here to start. Minnesota Twolves want to be the loveable losers that hopefully mature into winners. That will never be thibs.

Two different philosphies will never mix.

[KGdaBom]

Thibs was an old dog with no new tricks. The team was on the path to treadmilling with him, on the bubble playoff or late lottery team. Zero fan excitement. It would be 2 more dead seasons if he was kept around. Ryan or whoever may come after him is not a success guarantee, but the intrigue is out there and the change was needed.

Casey was fired after getting 1st seed and COY award. And you're telling me Thibs had no ground to be fired ?

Casey should have never been fired by any team.

[Worm Guts]

He didn’t miss the playoffs yet and he also had the team as good as 3rd place. I think you also have to take into consideration the fact Glen intervened by fully maxing Wiggins without even letting him hit the market to see his true value.

It’s a very tough proposition. Pulling the trigger in the off season would have made sense if it were to happen but at the moment wasn’t really justified beyond the fact that fans just didn’t like him and he rubbed people the wrong way. In terms of W and Ls he still was fighting for the playoffs and was still winning games (and losing some also)

You can complain that Glen maxed Wiggins, but I think you have to take into account where this franchise was when Thibodeau took over. You can say they hadn't made the playoffs in forever, but they also had what was perceived to be a lot of good young talent. Just about anyone could have traded the young talent for veterans and made the playoffs, that didn't take Thibodeau. I think the goal for Taylor (and most Wolves fans) was to develop the talent and build something that would last for while. Unfortunately, it's seems none of the young talent developed defensively under Thibs (whether that's his fault or not) and ultimately Thibodeau changed paths without convincing Taylor, and it has resulted in what has happened this season.

That’s why I say he was all wrong from day 1.... everyone wanted warm and fuzzy tanking and thibs is a consummate work horse. After last year my assessment was that he shouldn’t have been here to start. Minnesota Twolves want to be the loveable losers that hopefully mature into winners. That will never be thibs.

Two different philosphies will never mix.

Nobody wanted tanking anymore, they wanted development. Nobody developed under This.

[walk with me]

Nobody wanted tanking anymore, they wanted development. Nobody developed under This.

Thibs has developed players before and it’s not even about “old nba”. If thibs sucked Drose wouldn’t have looked depressed the day after thibs got fired. Loul, Taj, Jimmy wouldn’t have came back and jimmy says he would have stayed.

Thibs is just not a Minnesota guy. Kat and Wiggins need to be treated like little kids, since they don’t have doggish personalities like Giannis, Embiid, Westbrook, and other guys who haven’t been pampered as much as teens. My fear for those two is this ends up being a Demarcus cousins in Sacramento thing. Mike Malone was shat on for his efforts in sactown and now he coaches the #1 team in the west. Same thing happened with D’antoni and the lakers.

End of the day thibs was a bad hire from the get go. Not cause he sucks but because he’s not cute, cuddly and tender which is more aligned with Kat Wiggins and the franchise.

[Worm Guts]

Nobody wanted tanking anymore, they wanted development. Nobody developed under This.

Thibs has developed players before and it’s not even about “old nba”. If thibs sucked Drose wouldn’t have looked depressed the day after thibs got fired. Loul, Taj, Jimmy wouldn’t have came back and jimmy says he would have stayed.

Thibs is just not a Minnesota guy. Kat and Wiggins need to be treated like little kids, since they don’t have doggish personalities like Giannis, Embiid, Westbrook, and other guys who haven’t been pampered as much as teens. My fear for those two is this ends up being a Demarcus cousins in Sacramento thing. Mike Malone was shat on for his efforts in sactown and now he coaches the #1 team in the west. Same thing happened with D’antoni and the lakers.

End of the day thibs was a bad hire from the get go. Not cause he sucks but because he’s not cute, cuddly and tender which is more aligned with Kat Wiggins and the franchise.

Whether Thibs has developed other players is irrelevant. I'm not even saying it's his fault Wiggins and Towns didn't get better, but they didn't, and if you're going to change courses you probably need the owner on board.
And one of the issues I've heard about Thibs is that he really didn't communicate with Taylor the way he should have.

[shrink]

To be a successful coach in Glen’s eyes, you need to:

1. Make the playoffs
2. Improve Towns and especially Wiggins
3. Generate fan excitement and sell tickets

I think the previous hate for Thibs was over the top, but I don’t have any problems with his removal. I’m actually surprised that Glen bit the financial bullet to do this now.

Replacing Thibs with Ryan Saunders is already helping with Reason #3. MIN is a good basketball town when we have a good team, so let’s see if he can bring along #1 and #2.

[AirP.]

Whether Thibs has developed other players is irrelevant. I'm not even saying it's his fault Wiggins and Towns didn't get better, but they didn't, and if you're going to change courses you probably need the owner on board.
And one of the issues I've heard about Thibs is that he really didn't communicate with Taylor the way he should have.

Towns went from a great rookie(ROY) to making the All-NBA team his 3rd year WHILE being on a good team. It's one thing to put stats up on a bad team(someone has to), it's an entirely different thing putting up stats on a good team.

Personally I don't think coaches really develop players all that much(they can give guidance but you can go to experts to get that also), it's mostly on the players to put in the work in their personal time that drive development. Game minutes can let players see what they need to work on, but honestly you don't develop much from playing games(although you do gain experience which does help), you mostly get to see what you need to work on in your own time.

[Worm Guts]

Whether Thibs has developed other players is irrelevant. I'm not even saying it's his fault Wiggins and Towns didn't get better, but they didn't, and if you're going to change courses you probably need the owner on board.
And one of the issues I've heard about Thibs is that he really didn't communicate with Taylor the way he should have.

Towns went from a great rookie(ROY) to making the All-NBA team his 3rd year WHILE being on a good team. It's one thing to put stats up on a bad team(someone has to), it's an entirely different thing putting up stats on a good team.

Personally I don't think coaches really develop players all that much(they can give guidance but you can go to experts to get that also), it's mostly on the players to put in the work in their personal time that drive development. Game minutes can let players see what they need to work on, but honestly you don't develop much from playing games(although you do gain experience which does help), you mostly get to see what you need to work on in your own time.

In the preseason survey, Towns went from the player most GMs would like to build their team around to dropping off the list. The overall opinion of Towns had definitely diminished at the beginning of this season.
I wouldn't say coaches don't develop players, but I would say it's pretty difficult to determine who deserves credit or blame, the player or the coach or someone else. I would assume it's variable to every situation.

[Note30]

Nobody wanted tanking anymore, they wanted development. Nobody developed under This.

My fear for those two is this ends up being a Demarcus cousins in Sacramento thing. Mike Malone was shat on for his efforts in sactown and now he coaches the #1 team in the west. Same thing happened with D’antoni and the lakers.

Not even close to the same situation.

Neither of those guys were execs, mike malone's coaching was not the biggest issue in SAC, his rep was, he was removed for George Karl which their FO thought because he was an old school coach he would be better than some new kid, there was a ton of dysfunction in that org besides what was on the roster.

D'Antoni could not adapt to his roster. He took Pau who is arguably a top 10 top 15 PF of all time and benched him. There were a ton of injuries, and he just wasn't the right coach for the situation. The only reason D'Antoni was hired was because he was the best name on a list of coaches not named Phil Jackson. Not hiring PJax was the main reason they hired D'Antoni. That and the FO thought oh he can run PHX with Steve Nash with Steve Nash and Kobe.

Thibs was fired for a number of reasons, the fact that despite full control over a roster, he could only win 31 games his first year when the previous coach had won 29. The fact that he made a short sighted stupid trade that has potentially set this franchise back atleast a year or two, and then watched that traded player that he vouched for **** all over his goals. Then to top things off he showed he never improved as a coach and was very much the same coach as he was in Chicago and could not run anything new despite the fact that rest of the league had evolved into a new era. That's why he was fired. Don't @ me.

[AirP.]

In the preseason survey, Towns went from the player most GMs would like to build their team around to dropping off the list. The overall opinion of Towns had definitely diminished at the beginning of this season.
I wouldn't say coaches don't develop players, but I would say it's pretty difficult to determine who deserves credit or blame, the player or the coach or someone else. I would assume it's variable to every situation.

That's fair. I believe his poor performance in the playoffs really soured GMs on him(especially with those being the last games they saw him play in).

[johanliebert]

Oh and a reminder that Thibs' ordered his assistant coaches to not speak to Jim Peterson last year because he thought Jim was too critical of the team. How SAWFT is that sh*t??

heard that guy was on a wolves podcast smearing thibs name lol. thibs made the right decision.

[King Malta]

When Thibs made that Butler trade he hitched his wagon to Jimmy.

Just over a year later Jimmy has gone, embarrassing the franchise and Thibs (who handled his trade out in almost the worst possible fashion). Also, from what several local reporters are saying he had taken an isolationist approach in the organization and wasn't very easy to work with.

Even if you feel the on court performances don't deserve his firing (I tend to disagree), just about every other aspect of the way he handles himself put him in the cross-hairs. Only extremely positive performances on the court would have saved him, and he never really displayed those.

Following up on this, JimPete was on the Raised By Wolves pod yesterday, absolutely BURIES Thibs for the way he treated treated around the organization, confirms that coaches were told not to speak to Jim.

http://www.1500espn.com/raised-by-wolves-2/2019/01/jim-pete-thibs-whats-next-wolves-ep-149/

[shrink]

Oh and a reminder that Thibs' ordered his assistant coaches to not speak to Jim Peterson last year because he thought Jim was too critical of the team. How SAWFT is that sh*t??

heard that guy was on a wolves podcast smearing thibs name lol. thibs made the right decision.

In MIN, we have recently had a lot of sportscasters complaining how athletes and coaches don’t give them all the access they want. Today, I listened to a podcast where a guy complained that the room they had the Saunders interview was too small. They complain that athletes only give them stock answers that don’t really say anything. They complain that the organization is tight-lipped about trades and other private business decisions, that affect the lives and egos of these athletes.

I used to believe them, because I heard only one side of the argument - because sportscasters get our ear, because they are .. sportscasters. Of course they are going to say they “deserve” to be given these stories, because it makes their life easier. You know what I’d like to see? How about a little investigative reporting? How about putting in some legwork before demanding to be given stories on a silver platter?

Worse, right now, we see the media parsing every single word that comes out of the mouth of any athlete or coach, and pushing it to illogical extremes to get more sensationalism. For example, Derrick Rose did not mean that he wanted his doubters to actually “kill themselves.” But you can expect him, and other athletes like Wiggins, to not give out information that will only be used against him, when reporting is the way it is today.

I roll my eyes when I see reporters act like this, then whine about not getting enough access.

[Klomp]

I think strictly from a performance POV him being fired is still kind of ridiculous. He made the playoffs and the team was coming around recently.

He just was never ever accepted by the city, organization and fan. Part of being successful in this city is being “one of their own”

From Minnesota
Has a Minnesota look
Talks like a Minnesotan
Has a “regular guy” demeanor

Nothing about thibs is Minnesota. You may have hated what he did on the court but what he did on the court wasn’t firable. Everyone in the city just hated him for who he was.

Again, sports is a business. A big part of business is PR. Empty arenas don't make money. Negative PR on social media doesn't make money.

If you win an NBA title but nobody shows up to your games or buys your merchandise, you're just the NBA version of the Miami Marlins.

[walk with me]

I think strictly from a performance POV him being fired is still kind of ridiculous. He made the playoffs and the team was coming around recently.

He just was never ever accepted by the city, organization and fan. Part of being successful in this city is being “one of their own”

From Minnesota
Has a Minnesota look
Talks like a Minnesotan
Has a “regular guy” demeanor

Nothing about thibs is Minnesota. You may have hated what he did on the court but what he did on the court wasn’t firable. Everyone in the city just hated him for who he was.

Again, sports is a business. A big part of business is PR. Empty arenas don't make money. Negative PR on social media doesn't make money.

If you win an NBA title but nobody shows up to your games or buys your merchandise, you're just the NBA version of the Miami Marlins.

I agree.... thibs should have never been the coach here to start. He took the franchise (for better or worst) in a direction nobody wanted to go. I think the people would have just been happier with

Ricky Zach Wiggins and Kat.. regardless of what happened without that group.

[Calinks]

Listened to the Jim Peterson interview. Almost made another thread about it because I thought it was surprisingly candid involving Thibs. Here are some takeaways.



http://www.1500espn.com/raised-by-wolves-2/2019/01/jim-pete-thibs-whats-next-wolves-ep-149/

-Pete confirmed that Thibs informed players and staff not to talk to him
-Pete said when Thibs came in, he didn't touch base with any of the people who had been around, pretty much isolated them
-Thibs was very standoffish or dismissive of a lot of people on the business
-Pete said he didn't feel bad for Thibs because of how he treated people
-Thibs rarely communicated even with players
-Felt like a lot of people were in a prison


All in all it sounded like Thibs was a huge jerk. Reminded me of what we saw out of Butler. It came across a lot more of an issue than I thought and sounds like the change was made for everyone else in the organization more so than just the players.

[Folklore]

Nobody wanted tanking anymore, they wanted development. Nobody developed under This.

Thibs has developed players before and it’s not even about “old nba”. If thibs sucked Drose wouldn’t have looked depressed the day after thibs got fired. Loul, Taj, Jimmy wouldn’t have came back and jimmy says he would have stayed.

Thibs is just not a Minnesota guy. Kat and Wiggins need to be treated like little kids, since they don’t have doggish personalities like Giannis, Embiid, Westbrook, and other guys who haven’t been pampered as much as teens. My fear for those two is this ends up being a Demarcus cousins in Sacramento thing. Mike Malone was shat on for his efforts in sactown and now he coaches the #1 team in the west. Same thing happened with D’antoni and the lakers.

End of the day thibs was a bad hire from the get go. Not cause he sucks but because he’s not cute, cuddly and tender which is more aligned with Kat Wiggins and the franchise.

Cry me a river. Shouldn't you be happy that he can now be at home with you more? You Thib lunatics should just make him a fan club because your credibility as basketball minds are now gone.