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R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's

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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#61 » by mplsfonz23 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:02 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
southern wolf wrote:Who's the best available coach with experience out there? I don't think he's got much competition which will work in his favour.
.


That's probably not what I would looking for anyway. I'd probably be looking for someone who hasn't been a head coach in the NBA before. We've gone the proven head coach route with Thibodeau, Adelman, and Flip Saunders. If we want someone elite, we probably have to dig him up from somewhere.


He's been here all along. Ryan.
Glen is always looking in the neighbors yard when talent is right here. I don't think he can afford another coach right now.
Ryan needs to make a few changes from Thibs staff, and that will be difficult, but it is needed before he can put his stamp on it. I hope there is no resentment from the old regime. If so, they got to go.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#62 » by Klomp » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:59 pm

mplsfonz23 wrote:Ryan needs to make a few changes from Thibs staff, and that will be difficult, but it is needed before he can put his stamp on it. I hope there is no resentment from the old regime. If so, they got to go.

I certainly see changes happening. Most likely guys I see sticking around would be John Lucas III (move from player development to assistant), Ed Pinckney and of course Jerry Sichting. I would expect Randy Wittman has an outside chance to join the coaching staff or front office, since he's been hanging around.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#63 » by Killboard » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:19 pm

mplsfonz23 wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:
southern wolf wrote:Who's the best available coach with experience out there? I don't think he's got much competition which will work in his favour.
.


That's probably not what I would looking for anyway. I'd probably be looking for someone who hasn't been a head coach in the NBA before. We've gone the proven head coach route with Thibodeau, Adelman, and Flip Saunders. If we want someone elite, we probably have to dig him up from somewhere.


He's been here all along. Ryan.
Glen is always looking in the neighbors yard when talent is right here. I don't think he can afford another coach right now.
Ryan needs to make a few changes from Thibs staff, and that will be difficult, but it is needed before he can put his stamp on it. I hope there is no resentment from the old regime. If so, they got to go.


It should have said want. Im sure he can get a loan if is short of cash.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#64 » by Klomp » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:22 pm

Now is the time where his minute management will be under the microscope. We just about have a fully healthy roster now, something he hasn't had yet. That can be both a blessing and a curse.

Tolliver's already been mostly fazed out of the rotation. Personally, the next two I'd stop giving regular minutes to are Dieng and Bayless.

Saunders has already played with small-ball lineups, with Gibson or Saric at the 5. I'd move to that more often. And Deng has gotten minutes at PF in addition to normal SF minutes, plus Covington can play small-ball 4 if needed.

On the wing, I'm not expecting Wiggins' minutes to be cut much at all. But I hope to see Okogie regularly on the court, especially with Covington. And I think all three PGs probably deserve minutes.

I want to see a lineup of Jones / Okogie / Covington / Deng / Towns for a stretch or two.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#65 » by Worm Guts » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:28 pm

mplsfonz23 wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:
southern wolf wrote:Who's the best available coach with experience out there? I don't think he's got much competition which will work in his favour.
.


That's probably not what I would looking for anyway. I'd probably be looking for someone who hasn't been a head coach in the NBA before. We've gone the proven head coach route with Thibodeau, Adelman, and Flip Saunders. If we want someone elite, we probably have to dig him up from somewhere.


He's been here all along. Ryan.
Glen is always looking in the neighbors yard when talent is right here. I don't think he can afford another coach right now.
Ryan needs to make a few changes from Thibs staff, and that will be difficult, but it is needed before he can put his stamp on it. I hope there is no resentment from the old regime. If so, they got to go.



I don't know what that means exactly, but I think Glen works better with people he's comfortable with. I think he's looked outside the organization because of the "country club" criticism, but I don't know that he's missed out on a whole lot of talent right here. I think Glen should probably stick Ryan because he's comfortable with Ryan, although I don't know that Ryan has shown anything extraordinary.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#66 » by thinktank » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:07 pm

DEFCON 5:

Saunders lets Wiggins chuck as many contested long twos as he wants.
What would you pay a guy putting up 18 and 11 in the playoffs?
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#67 » by Killboard » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:46 pm

thinktank wrote:DEFCON 5:

Saunders lets Wiggins chuck as many contested long twos as he wants.


He also seems to be fine with giving him some days to rest. Im not going to talk about a player personal life but looking his on court performance he looked really stressed. By his demeanor you usually wont think he is ovethinking things, but decision making was really bad even by his standards.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#68 » by Klomp » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:37 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#69 » by Dewey » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:06 pm

Money-wise aren't going to open a search for another coach ... I think Glenn merely wanted to give Ryan part of a season to settle in, and in my opinion, I dont see that there has been any setback in terms of coaching. Attention needs to be solidifying the GM position.

I have found it alarming the number of players we have who are unable/unwilling to raise their level of play on a consistant basis. Just goes to show how much of this game really is mental. If Wiggins played half his worth in salary, we'd be still fighting for a playoff spot. This will be Ryan and the new GM's biggest challenge with Taylors willingness to move him.
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#70 » by Nick K » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:29 pm

This might not be the right thread as I didn't want to start a new thread for this. Big news for all of you who don't want Fred Hoiberg as coach or as a front office GM.

The big rumor is Hoiberg will return to coach college ball with the Nebraska Cornhuskers.

This was reported by a Nebraska paper sources said.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#71 » by Jedzz » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:45 am

Klomp wrote:
Read on Twitter


Not only does Karl-Anthony Towns look great, as he has since the All-Star break, Saunders has the Wolves going to him on almost every possession. He was left as a bystander too often in the past, as with last season's first-round series with the Rockets.


Ahem. The other side of the coin. I'll let you decide which one is more shiny.

The Timberwovlves beat the Rockets twice this season, once without Karl ANTONIUS Towns.

Yesterday they lost to the Rockets with Towns volume shooting a shade higher than typical Wiggins, 8 of 22 for 36%. 22pts on 22 FG attempts and 5 FT attempts. Who wants to be the first to crown him for that one.

In fact, the Timberwolves have lost 3 in a row. The last team win came against the Knicks while Towns was missing again.

The only thing good about funneling every possession in through Kat is that he seems to cherish it. Of course we can't be sure it's not all about trying to earn an extra 30 million. The nerve of me suggesting that could be any kind of silly motive. I see dollar signs in his eyes each time he shows multiple two handed power dunks in the first half of these games lately. Trouble is, the opponent is sinking 3s. It's all great. But if everyone is told to just feed him, his 40-50 on his best nights still don't guarantee a win because you are asking everyone else to not produce.

Ryan has benched Rose to make sure all possessions go through Towns that are possible without winning. This is Ryan's tank and Towns is the Tank commander right now.

I'm not listening to any excuses for his playoff performance last season. That was entirely on him. His motive for not playing his best was getting Butler to run out of here screaming. Here is the big question for all those wanting to revisit history right now. Do us all a favor and look to the future instead. Rub your magic crystal ball and tell us please...what will Towns' motive be for next year to continue playing big time ball? Do tell.

Seems to me the idea of funneling it all through Towns is the wrong move. Nothing wrong with keeping him a big part of things. But to forget about everyone else is to play loser ball. At its best focusing only on a single good player you might, maybe reach .500 ball. Do Not make this mistake again. Kevin Love loved it so much he begged out. It's a fools plan.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#72 » by Jedzz » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:11 am

mplsfonz23 wrote:
upriser7 wrote:I would really love to evaluate Ryan once after we get RoCo back...this team has had lot of injuries this season, especially in last 2 months...I don't think Ryan has yet gotten a chance to work with healthy team. The team has been shorthanded for entire Ryan's tenure so far. Majority of the games so far under Ryan have been close games too.


I think the close games are due to injuries. We can run up the score, then we run out of gas at the end. Kat still has to figure out how to stay out of foul trouble.

Overall, I think he's doing a great job with what we have on the roster. It seems like he will be running a current style offense, and try and reverse the drills that Thibs installed.


All good points. I see a lot of positives where Thibs was lacking.

But let's also not overlook these injuries now while Ryan is running the show. I can't tell if there are more injuries exactly, or just less give a hoot from the players about getting back quick, or both. Guys taking games off for thigh bruises and sore ankles on the plenty. We've been talking about a guy's bone bruise like it might be a career threatening event. Who's making sure the players are preparing well and taking care of themselves? Is there any issue there. I'm not claiming there is, but I don't see anyone asking. Should we? It's been insane. Constant talks about whether it's all about tanking or not because it's been that silly to always be down two starters or more. Sometimes missing 3 PGs, a SF or three and even a starting Center all at the same time.

More Cons?
Didn't stop Wiggins from playing normal Wiggins ball. Taking same shots. Exact same role. Still no slashing and no rim action.
Saric has not played well under Ryan's control when the offense is centered on Towns/Wiggins only.
Tyus and Okogie still showing completely cold 0 fer games shooting. Blind minutes aren't improving their shooting consistency. What is he or isn't he doing to help them in this?

Recently from Lebron: "LeBron James Defines Lakers As 'Catering To Players, Everything Else Comes Secondary'"
Sounds a little bit like our team right now. Catering to just a couple players and not putting the whole team and wins first.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#73 » by Jedzz » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:39 am

Milwaukee lost to the 6ers the other night with Giannis putting up 52/16/7 and I read Bucks fans suggesting the Bucks need to get Giannis help. Excuse me? It's one of the deepest teams in the league right now. I see the trouble as they focused way too much on Giannis that game hoping he would carry them over, while the 6ers simply shot really well.

Here is why it is Wolves - Ryan - Kat related right now.

Bucks had just lost a starter to injury.So I understand why it was their plan to lean on Giannis but you need to trust your team as a whole. It can take everyone off their own game in order for them to all feed one player or to otherwise create space for that player.
The Sixers beat the Bucks by forcing Giannis Antetokounmpo to do it all himself
092617_Neubeck_Carroll.jpg
By Kyle Neubeck
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While most teams want to force the ball out of the hands of the opponent's best player, this strategy had the opposite effect, baiting Antetokounmpo into playing hero ball for a lot of the game.


When one player is going all hero ball they need to stop and smell the roses now and then. Remember to feed everyone else too or you will lose as much as win.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#74 » by minimus » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:10 pm

Jedzz wrote:Milwaukee lost to the 6ers the other night with Giannis putting up 52/16/7 and I read Bucks fans suggesting the Bucks need to get Giannis help. Excuse me? It's one of the deepest teams in the league right now. I see the trouble as they focused way too much on Giannis that game hoping he would carry them over, while the 6ers simply shot really well.

Here is why it is Wolves - Ryan - Kat related right now.

Bucks had just lost a starter to injury.So I understand why it was their plan to lean on Giannis but you need to trust your team as a whole. It can take everyone off their own game in order for them to all feed one player or to otherwise create space for that player.
The Sixers beat the Bucks by forcing Giannis Antetokounmpo to do it all himself
092617_Neubeck_Carroll.jpg
By Kyle Neubeck
PhillyVoice Staff

While most teams want to force the ball out of the hands of the opponent's best player, this strategy had the opposite effect, baiting Antetokounmpo into playing hero ball for a lot of the game.


When one player is going all hero ball they need to stop and smell the roses now and then. Remember to feed everyone else too or you will lose as much as win.


I think it is more about coaching staff doing homework and players execution. PHI went to Embiid defending Greek and attacking MIL defense because

1) MIL had no reliable bigman
2) It looks Embiid is the only one who can effectively guard Greek

It was more like a playoff game. PHI gambled on this gameplan and won, also both Mirotic and Middleton could not hit anything. So in our case I think it is wise to feed KAT as much as possible making him main scorer a AND ball distributor. He can handle it. What we need are wing that can consistenly hit 3s (sorry Okogie) and PG who can distribute the ball and shoot 3s.

Saying this I believe that we have a chance even with KAT within this erratic offense, the problem is defense: Saric is a bad defender at PF, Wiggins is a bad defender at SG, both Rose and Teague are bad defenders as PG, Dieng is an awful defender even for 5 minute backup. It must be changed this offseason summer.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#75 » by minimus » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:34 pm

I like that recently showed some good signs:
* - we play whole length go the court, we run in fast break
* - we use whole halfcourt, we play wide.
* - is used to distribute ball more. As result we cut more.
* - with Tyus playing starting PG we control pace, we feed KAT

Read on Twitter

these two facts are related
Read on Twitter
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#76 » by Jedzz » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:04 pm

minimus wrote:I like that recently showed some good signs:
* - we play whole length go the court, we run in fast break
* - we use whole halfcourt, we play wide.
* - is used to distribute ball more. As result we cut more.
* - with Tyus playing starting PG we control pace, we feed KAT

Read on Twitter

these two facts are related
Read on Twitter


So the tweets say Tyus is getting 5.4 assists per game the last ten, and only 7 turnovers. ok. That's pretty low on assists. I don't care about the ratio to turnovers at all. What I am happy with is his 12 pts and decent shooting against Memphis.

Not certain how 5 assists leads to Kats 33 pts in order to be connected. Kat last three games, 21, 26, 33pts. Boards 16, 21, 23

7 more wins coming right up.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#77 » by Grubie024 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:14 pm

Jedzz wrote:Ahem. The other side of the coin. I'll let you decide which one is more shiny.

The Timberwovlves beat the Rockets twice this season, once without Karl ANTONIUS Towns.

Yesterday they lost to the Rockets with Towns volume shooting a shade higher than typical Wiggins, 8 of 22 for 36%. 22pts on 22 FG attempts and 5 FT attempts. Who wants to be the first to crown him for that one.

In fact, the Timberwolves have lost 3 in a row. The last team win came against the Knicks while Towns was missing again.

The only thing good about funneling every possession in through Kat is that he seems to cherish it. Of course we can't be sure it's not all about trying to earn an extra 30 million. The nerve of me suggesting that could be any kind of silly motive. I see dollar signs in his eyes each time he shows multiple two handed power dunks in the first half of these games lately. Trouble is, the opponent is sinking 3s. It's all great. But if everyone is told to just feed him, his 40-50 on his best nights still don't guarantee a win because you are asking everyone else to not produce.

Ryan has benched Rose to make sure all possessions go through Towns that are possible without winning. This is Ryan's tank and Towns is the Tank commander right now.

I'm not listening to any excuses for his playoff performance last season. That was entirely on him. His motive for not playing his best was getting Butler to run out of here screaming. Here is the big question for all those wanting to revisit history right now. Do us all a favor and look to the future instead. Rub your magic crystal ball and tell us please...what will Towns' motive be for next year to continue playing big time ball? Do tell.

Seems to me the idea of funneling it all through Towns is the wrong move. Nothing wrong with keeping him a big part of things. But to forget about everyone else is to play loser ball. At its best focusing only on a single good player you might, maybe reach .500 ball. Do Not make this mistake again. Kevin Love loved it so much he begged out. It's a fools plan.

With this statement... it's very hard to take you seriously. Just saying.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#78 » by minimus » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:09 pm

Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:I like that recently showed some good signs:
* - we play whole length go the court, we run in fast break
* - we use whole halfcourt, we play wide.
* - is used to distribute ball more. As result we cut more.
* - with Tyus playing starting PG we control pace, we feed KAT

Read on Twitter

these two facts are related
Read on Twitter


So the tweets say Tyus is getting 5.4 assists per game the last ten, and only 7 turnovers. ok. That's pretty low on assists. I don't care about the ratio to turnovers at all. What I am happy with is his 12 pts and decent shooting against Memphis.
Not certain how 5 assists leads to Kats 33 pts in order to be connected. Kat last three games, 21, 26, 33pts. Boards 16, 21, 23
7 more wins coming right up.


Tyus execute well, he basically has one TO for 7 assists, this is one factor why we can fully load KAT and he responds. For instance, cross court passes, timely passes to open shooters, Tyus is doing all these things. Yeah, if he can hit 3s at league average % it all be huge plus for us. But I am pretty sure if he has shown now these shooting numbers he would already costs us more than MLE.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#79 » by minimus » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:14 pm

The thing that concerns me most is our defence. We overreact, over help when it is not needed. I don't know how we can change this pattern.
Second thing that needs big improvement is three point shooting from corners.
Third thing is that while we have seen a big step forward in letting KAT distribute the ball, we need to run more PnR with KAT. Next season a rim runner, who can set screen and finish a alley oop is a MUST.
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Re: R. Saunders as coach. Pro's VS Con's 

Post#80 » by theGreatRC » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:19 pm

It's so hard to judge him because so many player's have been in and out of the lineup.

He never had a chance to have RoCo.

Teague & Rose have been out for so many games this year.

Tyus suffered an ankle sprain and we had to run a PG lineup of Bayless/Terell

Wiggs has missed games, even KAT had that freak accident.

Loul Deng missed time, so has Taj..

We're basically playing KAT, Wigg, Dario, Tyus, two rookies & guys who are either end of bench guys or DNPs on most teams.

I've heard nothing but good things about Ryan that he's a hard worker, player's coach, positive vibe kinda guy, but does that mean he's also a good coach that can execute? KAT has looked amazing & Ryan has ran offense through him which is good, his end of game plays so far have been pretty trash outside of a few plays that I recall where KAT got an easy bucket in a clutch situation & also our defense has been pretty bad, but I feel like that's more due to the type of players that we have to trot out every night due to injury.

I'd honestly give him a 2 year deal unless a guy like Joerger becomes available this summer. He hasn't been awful, but he hasn't been good either, but I feel like there should be an asterisk there due to all the injuries.
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