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Offseason Team News/Updates

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mplsfonz23
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#161 » by mplsfonz23 » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:49 pm

Jedzz wrote:
mplsfonz23 wrote:
shrink wrote:I HATE the way ESPN and the league look at other teams as like farm clubs for their destination cities.

Towns could not have been MORE enthusiastic about the Wolves in his quote. They read that and say, “if MIN misses the playoffs this season, will Towns be unhappy, (implying “.. and demand a trade)?” Of course, that’s what their LA audience wants to hear.

Towns is starting the 1st year of a five year deal. Even if he BECAME unhappy, the Wolves would say, “sorry, we’re not trading you.”

Even when Towns says he’s happy here, they talk about trading him. What can he possibly say?


I like how they say he "Threw shade" on Thibs and Butler. (At least he didn't call ESPN for and interview.) If I were Thibs, I would be mad as hell at Butler for throwing his diva-ness around, but as I typed that, I think Thibs should be mad at himself. He had a good young core, kicked out all of Towns friends, brought in some old dudes, (one who thought it was HIS team,) and set us back a good 2-3 years.
That's what happens when you are in "win now" mode.


I'm sorry but I can't agree. Towns has never won anything yet. Towns will never win anything by himself. Choosing when to win is in the eye of the beholder. Towns is getting paid every day. His idea of when this team needs to truly start winning could be entirely different from the thoughts that you, me, or even the coach and owner's have. But it's not supposed to be his choice. (I don't even know what this means.)


If the owner and coaches felt they needed to start winning, it's on Towns to coexist best as possible with who they have at the time, whoever that is, and do everything they can to attempt to win together. There is no other acceptable truth if you ask me. I don't think he even got close to fully committing to that. Not even close to the commitment we saw from him as he chased the supermax this past season during meaningless games.

It takes a team of players and that team will undoubtedly need older Vets, middle vets, and young cheap players that can play. Even with a good mix, the players all have to commit to it. I didn't see 27 year old Leonard, 34 year old Marc Gasol, and youngins like 24 year old VanFleet and 24 year old Siakum struggling to all get on the same timeline together. Maybe it would have been harder for that team if Siakum and Van Fleet were both Maxed players and guys like Gasol and Leonard were brought in as middle of the road contract vets. Maybe that would have been enough to screw with the needed order of egos and power tripping bitches to stop Toronto from beating everyone.

With two young still developing minds and players getting the max deals, it wasn't ideal, yet Thibs brought in a workable mix of players to do it. We saw the Wolves leap to a top 4 in the west capable team and yet everyone saw how it never quite came together. Even in wins it was like they were struggling against themselves the whole time. It was all because of our young ignorant overpaid little ****. Everyone needs to sop blaming everyone else. We are stuck with them like this until they become more.

No need to apologize, it's a chat board.

I guess my thing was, you had good talent to work with. What has Thibs won? Butler? Rose? Taj? Deng? Etc....Nothing.
So why not bring them back and try again? No matter the cost because we want to win NOW!

Choosing to win? I think KAT gives it his all, (meaningless games or not.)
What should he have done? Coast because they are meaningless?

Players ALL have to commit? Is that how the season started?
Sure, that was all on Kat.

At that time, Thibs should have backed KAT 100%. But what did he do? Allowed that DIVA to screw with KAT and Wigs head, disrupt practice, call everyone SOFT (BTW now all teams now think KAT is soft) have a ME moment on ESPN, and demand a trade mid season.

Sorry, but at 22-23 that's kind of hard to handle coming from a vet...
I think the vet card can be overrated. Some vets only pretend to be helping. Jimmy sure didn't try with those two, because he was upset they got paid. (Something he would never do.) Hello Miami!!!!

Workable mix? Sounds like a country club of old Bulls to me.

Overpaid, I agree. But that's the price, and the way BBall is going now. It's ALL...ALL about getting paid. Sure they ALL want to win a ring, but that money is more important nowadays. :(
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#162 » by Jedzz » Thu Aug 1, 2019 6:19 pm

mplsfonz23 wrote:No need to apologize, it's a chat board.

I guess my thing was, you had good talent to work with. What has Thibs won? Butler? Rose? Taj? Deng? Etc....Nothing.
So why not bring them back and try again? No matter the cost because we want to win NOW!

Choosing to win? I think KAT gives it his all, (meaningless games or not.)
What should he have done? Coast because they are meaningless?

Players ALL have to commit? Is that how the season started?
Sure, that was all on Kat.

At that time, Thibs should have backed KAT 100%. But what did he do? Allowed that DIVA to screw with KAT and Wigs head, disrupt practice, call everyone SOFT (BTW now all teams now think KAT is soft) have a ME moment on ESPN, and demand a trade mid season.

Sorry, but at 22-23 that's kind of hard to handle coming from a vet...
I think the vet card can be overrated. Some vets only pretend to be helping. Jimmy sure didn't try with those two, because he was upset they got paid. (Something he would never do.) Hello Miami!!!!

Workable mix? Sounds like a country club of old Bulls to me.

Overpaid, I agree. But that's the price, and the way BBall is going now. It's ALL...ALL about getting paid. Sure they ALL want to win a ring, but that money is more important nowadays. :(


Problem is all your answers here are about how it ended, the final month of that summer and the start of last season. While what you originally said is Thibs sent all Town's friends away. Butler Did Not Start Out as a bad teammate here.

It was already over in January/February of the first Butler year in my book. It was already clear that Wiggins and Towns weren't going to committ to this group Thibs brought in. Even when the team made the playoffs, Towns certainly did not committ to those playoff games. He did not give it his all. He also didn't start last season giving it his all. He certainly gave it everything in January/February through spring this year though. Probably because most of the Vets were sat down and of course there was the money factor.

I didn't see the team miss a blip the game KAT missed last season. It was a win I do believe. What was he averaging last spring? 35-40 a game? He misses and the team did just fine anyway. Where was his 30 points a game in the playoffs? Where was that animal then? Oh yeah he coasted through those.

mplsfonz23 wrote:(I don't even know what this means.)

Just what it said. Towns needs to man up and play when the team says they are bringing in a set of players to help the team win more. It's the team's choice, not his. He shouldn't get the team's trust for 5 years and over 100 million and then get to decide when the roster is ok for him. If I was the owner/GM he and I would have had a very serious talk about that before I offered him one more dime. If his answers weren't correct I would have traded him for a haul of picks and walked away smiling. Disappointed, but smiling knowing I was doing the right thing.

mplsfonz23 wrote:Workable mix? Sounds like a country club of old Bulls to me.


No it does not. Coaches have to find players that fit around their core or max guys. Those "bulls" players were perfectly fine.
Look at our coaches now. Then look at who they brought in. They brought in a few players that they know. That's what coaches do. Thibs brought in Bulls players, guess why.
These are my opinions.
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#163 » by old school 34 » Thu Aug 1, 2019 6:44 pm

Jedzz wrote:
mplsfonz23 wrote:No need to apologize, it's a chat board.

I guess my thing was, you had good talent to work with. What has Thibs won? Butler? Rose? Taj? Deng? Etc....Nothing.
So why not bring them back and try again? No matter the cost because we want to win NOW!

Choosing to win? I think KAT gives it his all, (meaningless games or not.)
What should he have done? Coast because they are meaningless?

Players ALL have to commit? Is that how the season started?
Sure, that was all on Kat.

At that time, Thibs should have backed KAT 100%. But what did he do? Allowed that DIVA to screw with KAT and Wigs head, disrupt practice, call everyone SOFT (BTW now all teams now think KAT is soft) have a ME moment on ESPN, and demand a trade mid season.

Sorry, but at 22-23 that's kind of hard to handle coming from a vet...
I think the vet card can be overrated. Some vets only pretend to be helping. Jimmy sure didn't try with those two, because he was upset they got paid. (Something he would never do.) Hello Miami!!!!

Workable mix? Sounds like a country club of old Bulls to me.

Overpaid, I agree. But that's the price, and the way BBall is going now. It's ALL...ALL about getting paid. Sure they ALL want to win a ring, but that money is more important nowadays. :(


Problem is all your answers here are about how it ended, the final month of that summer and the start of last season. While what you originally said is Thibs sent all Town's friends away. Butler Did Not Start Out as a bad teammate hear.

It was already over in January/February of the first Butler year in my book. It was already clear that Wiggins and Towns weren't going to committ to this group Thibs brought in. Even when the team made the playoffs, Towns certainly did not committ to those playoff games. He did not give it his all. He also didn't start last season giving it his all. He certainly gave it everything in January/February through spring this year though. Probably because most of the Vets were sat down and of course there was the money factor.

I didn't see the team miss a blip the game KAT missed last season. It was a win I do believe. What was he averaging last spring? 35-40 a game? He misses and the team did just fine anyway. Where was his 30 points a game in the playoffs? Where was that animal then? Oh yeah he coasted through those.

Look at our coaches now. Then look at who they brought in. They brought in a few players that they know. That's what coaches do. Thibs brought in Bulls players, guess why.
I think Jedzz...you kind of nailed it...when talking about Tor on why it didn't work. From a talent standpoint....it really should've worked & with a few accounting edits it probably would have? And it's the part that I feel Thibs mismanaged as a POBO &/or not enough experience from that role to properly evaluate risk/reward. Tor worked because it's salary pecking order was more aligned with their on court value pecking order. Thibs knew that the organization was going all in on KAT and Wiggins (to maybe a little lesser extent)...& to some degree he was on board with this as well....& to that extent if your going to bring in an alpha that's going to be above KAT & Wiggins to speed the process up...that's great, but it better be someone with a really mature perspective of how the nba salary cap works...cause most likely they weren't going to be aligned on said pecking orders for quite some time whether new deals could be signed down the road or that person (Butler in this case) helped develop KAT & Wiggins to above him?

Whether that was bad evaluation on Thibs of seeing that, communicating it, &/or being clear with Jimmy on the expectations...it became a massive fail & looks all the worse on Thibs because in Jimmy...he definitely knew what he was dealing with?

I would be really interested at some point to learn how much Thibs really understood that that deal was really a all in or this is going to burn to the ground type of outcome and no where in between?

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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#164 » by Jedzz » Fri Aug 2, 2019 12:23 am

old school 34 wrote:...when talking about Tor on why it didn't work. From a talent standpoint....it really should've worked & with a few accounting edits it probably would have? And it's the part that I feel Thibs mismanaged as a POBO &/or not enough experience from that role to properly evaluate risk/reward. Tor worked because it's salary pecking order was more aligned with their on court value pecking order. Thibs knew that the organization was going all in on KAT and Wiggins (to maybe a little lesser extent)...& to some degree he was on board with this as well....& to that extent if your going to bring in an alpha that's going to be above KAT & Wiggins to speed the process up...that's great, but it better be someone with a really mature perspective of how the nba salary cap works...cause most likely they weren't going to be aligned on said pecking orders for quite some time whether new deals could be signed down the road or that person (Butler in this case) helped develop KAT & Wiggins to above him?

Yes you picked up on that Toronto part I mentioned well. Maybe explained it better than me. That team had plenty of longterm Raptors that could have rejected Kawhi or at least struggled against him the whole time. They didn't, they were a team of pros. As far as examples of this kind of thing goes, it is also how the Warriors have been able to mesh all their stars and win. Different situation but all those great players filed in behind someone's lead and went with it. Seeing Steph and Klay take a slightly more backseat role to allow Durant in was pretty special. Not everything was rosie with Durant and Green or whatever but overall they played together as a team. Like Pro's do.

If only the two kids would have followed the vets and committed to winning with them here. I still think Butler figured he would get that second Max (extension anyway) because they would keep Wiggins just below on an offer. When Wiggins got his he and Towns knew it was time to wait out the fallout. The two to three contractual things Thibs failed was Dieng's deal that should have been less or shorter, and Wiggins should have been offered less period. If he wouldn't sign for less that would have been an easy out from under him. We know the owner leaned on him to keep Wiggs/Towns. The local media and many fans did too. But Thibs should have stood firm on an alternative and helped work out a sign and trade with a different team instead. It was a massive blunder. Of course, those of us that work for a boss probably know what it is like to hear them adamant about something and that's that. Thibs had a boss who clearly was involved. He needed to stand up to Glen and explain what was up. But there is no way we can know, maybe Thibs loved Wiggins too and maybe he was just trying to play Butler like a fiddle in order to get him to play out the final year.

old school 34 wrote:.
Whether that was bad evaluation on Thibs of seeing that, communicating it, &/or being clear with Jimmy on the expectations...it became a massive fail & looks all the worse on Thibs because in Jimmy...he definitely knew what he was dealing with?

I would be really interested at some point to learn how much Thibs really understood that that deal was really a all in or this is going to burn to the ground type of outcome and no where in between?

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I have no doubt that after the Wiggins deal he was not being upfront about the future with Butler any longer. He obviously should not have been both Pobo and Coach. But none of this excuses WIggins or Towns as far as I see it. They had seasoned pros playing alongside them, they had a former MVP playing with them for peanuts. They just needed to give it everything and they did not. Even if it was all destined to fall apart that summer they could have made it a more amazing year. Butler would have bled for them if they would have went all in and followed him.

Here's the thing about Butler. Let's say he handled it more like a pro and played out the final season here now with both Wiggins and Towns who now knew they were the longterm signed future and knew they don't have to listen to Butler at all. It would have been ugly all season, the losses would have steamed up the place, and Butler's value would have been mud anyway. I imagine after a drop down to 39 wins, Butler's value would have been looked at somewhat like Teague's is right now. Instead, he pulled off a bush league force out like a Star does and in doing so reminded everyone of his name, saved his value with a playoff push in Philly and has now turned it into a 4/140 guaranteed that will keep him paid a bit higher than Wiggins and Towns through 2023 and he no longer has to put up with them. The guy is smart. He did what he had to.
These are my opinions.
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#165 » by KGdaBom » Fri Aug 2, 2019 4:18 pm

Jedzz wrote:
old school 34 wrote:...when talking about Tor on why it didn't work. From a talent standpoint....it really should've worked & with a few accounting edits it probably would have? And it's the part that I feel Thibs mismanaged as a POBO &/or not enough experience from that role to properly evaluate risk/reward. Tor worked because it's salary pecking order was more aligned with their on court value pecking order. Thibs knew that the organization was going all in on KAT and Wiggins (to maybe a little lesser extent)...& to some degree he was on board with this as well....& to that extent if your going to bring in an alpha that's going to be above KAT & Wiggins to speed the process up...that's great, but it better be someone with a really mature perspective of how the nba salary cap works...cause most likely they weren't going to be aligned on said pecking orders for quite some time whether new deals could be signed down the road or that person (Butler in this case) helped develop KAT & Wiggins to above him?

Yes you picked up on that Toronto part I mentioned well. Maybe explained it better than me. That team had plenty of longterm Raptors that could have rejected Kawhi or at least struggled against him the whole time. They didn't, they were a team of pros. As far as examples of this kind of thing goes, it is also how the Warriors have been able to mesh all their stars and win. Different situation but all those great players filed in behind someone's lead and went with it. Seeing Steph and Klay take a slightly more backseat role to allow Durant in was pretty special. Not everything was rosie with Durant and Green or whatever but overall they played together as a team. Like Pro's do.

If only the two kids would have followed the vets and committed to winning with them here. I still think Butler figured he would get that second Max (extension anyway) because they would keep Wiggins just below on an offer. When Wiggins got his he and Towns knew it was time to wait out the fallout. The two to three contractual things Thibs failed was Dieng's deal that should have been less or shorter, and Wiggins should have been offered less period. If he wouldn't sign for less that would have been an easy out from under him. We know the owner leaned on him to keep Wiggs/Towns. The local media and many fans did too. But Thibs should have stood firm on an alternative and helped work out a sign and trade with a different team instead. It was a massive blunder. Of course, those of us that work for a boss probably know what it is like to hear them adamant about something and that's that. Thibs had a boss who clearly was involved. He needed to stand up to Glen and explain what was up. But there is no way we can know, maybe Thibs loved Wiggins too and maybe he was just trying to play Butler like a fiddle in order to get him to play out the final year.

old school 34 wrote:.
Whether that was bad evaluation on Thibs of seeing that, communicating it, &/or being clear with Jimmy on the expectations...it became a massive fail & looks all the worse on Thibs because in Jimmy...he definitely knew what he was dealing with?

I would be really interested at some point to learn how much Thibs really understood that that deal was really a all in or this is going to burn to the ground type of outcome and no where in between?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

I have no doubt that after the Wiggins deal he was not being upfront about the future with Butler any longer. He obviously should not have been both Pobo and Coach. But none of this excuses WIggins or Towns as far as I see it. They had seasoned pros playing alongside them, they had a former MVP playing with them for peanuts. They just needed to give it everything and they did not. Even if it was all destined to fall apart that summer they could have made it a more amazing year. Butler would have bled for them if they would have went all in and followed him.

Here's the thing about Butler. Let's say he handled it more like a pro and played out the final season here now with both Wiggins and Towns who now knew they were the longterm signed future and knew they don't have to listen to Butler at all. It would have been ugly all season, the losses would have steamed up the place, and Butler's value would have been mud anyway. I imagine after a drop down to 39 wins, Butler's value would have been looked at somewhat like Teague's is right now. Instead, he pulled off a bush league force out like a Star does and in doing so reminded everyone of his name, saved his value with a playoff push in Philly and has now turned it into a 4/140 guaranteed that will keep him paid a bit higher than Wiggins and Towns through 2023 and he no longer has to put up with them. The guy is smart. He did what he had to.

He's smart and did what he had to do if integrity means nothing to him. He was a total bush league punk. I actually supported him until the practice antics.
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#166 » by Macwolf527 » Fri Aug 2, 2019 5:43 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Here's the thing about Butler. Let's say he handled it more like a pro and played out the final season here now with both Wiggins and Towns who now knew they were the longterm signed future and knew they don't have to listen to Butler at all. It would have been ugly all season, the losses would have steamed up the place, and Butler's value would have been mud anyway. I imagine after a drop down to 39 wins, Butler's value would have been looked at somewhat like Teague's is right now. Instead, he pulled off a bush league force out like a Star does and in doing so reminded everyone of his name, saved his value with a playoff push in Philly and has now turned it into a 4/140 guaranteed that will keep him paid a bit higher than Wiggins and Towns through 2023 and he no longer has to put up with them. The guy is smart. He did what he had to.


I struggle with the fact that Jimmy Butler got so much credit for the Wolves making the playoffs the full year he was here. He was just the gravy that push the Wolves into the playoffs, but by no means was he the meat and potatoes. He barely lead the Bulls to the playoffs in the weaker Eastern conference. He played alongside Gasol and Rose in the 14-15 season when they went 50-32. As he became more of a focal point the Bulls got worse. They dropped down to 42-40 in 15-16 still alongside Gasol and Rose and missed the playoffs altogether. They squeaked into the playoffs in 16-17, at 41-41, this time with Wade playing with him. If he's such a PrimeTime player, why didn't those teams player better with him in the lead.

As far as the Wolves go, if Covington doesn't get injured, I think we make the playoffs last year. If Teague and Rose don't miss as many games as they did, then we definitely would have made it. So, handing Jimmy Butler all the credit for the Wolves making it in 17-18 is BS. Even his success in Philly, was not predicated on him. The Sixers were one game better in the year prior to his arrival 52-30 vs 51-31. I said all that to say, the Wolves are going to be much better than people want to give them credit for this upcoming season, because we still have our meat and potatoes on the roster and culturally we're void of the distraction that Butler brought with him. Thank goodness the entire circus of Thibs and Butler is gone and we can't just focus on basketball and winning games.

To this day, I wish Towns and Wiggins would have went at him in that practice. But you can tell the entire experience has Towns coming forth with a different attitude. In the interviews this offseason, he's coming off as being more blunt, which is what you want from your leader. They should have read Jimmy as the opposition when he walked into the practice talking SH-T, and went at him. I would have clothes lined him on a line-up just to send a message. It would have been a fight in the gym that day, I promise you, but like you said...….Jimmy played it smart. If nothing else, he worked his hand and got his DOLLARS!
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#167 » by Jedzz » Fri Aug 2, 2019 6:02 pm

Macwolf527 wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
Here's the thing about Butler. Let's say he handled it more like a pro and played out the final season here now with both Wiggins and Towns who now knew they were the longterm signed future and knew they don't have to listen to Butler at all. It would have been ugly all season, the losses would have steamed up the place, and Butler's value would have been mud anyway. I imagine after a drop down to 39 wins, Butler's value would have been looked at somewhat like Teague's is right now. Instead, he pulled off a bush league force out like a Star does and in doing so reminded everyone of his name, saved his value with a playoff push in Philly and has now turned it into a 4/140 guaranteed that will keep him paid a bit higher than Wiggins and Towns through 2023 and he no longer has to put up with them. The guy is smart. He did what he had to.


I struggle with the fact that Jimmy Butler got so much credit for the Wolves making the playoffs the full year he was here. He was just the gravy that push the Wolves into the playoffs, but by no means was he the meat and potatoes. He barely lead the Bulls to the playoffs in the weaker Eastern conference. He played alongside Gasol and Rose in the 14-15 season when they went 50-32. As he became more of a focal point the Bulls got worse. They dropped down to 42-40 in 15-16 still alongside Gasol and Rose and missed the playoffs altogether. They squeaked into the playoffs in 16-17, at 41-41, this time with Wade playing with him. If he's such a PrimeTime player, why didn't those teams player better with him in the lead.

As far as the Wolves go, if Covington doesn't get injured, I think we make the playoffs last year. If Teague and Rose don't miss as many games as they did, then we definitely would have made it. So, handing Jimmy Butler all the credit for the Wolves making it in 17-18 is BS. Even his success in Philly, was not predicated on him. The Sixers were one game better in the year prior to his arrival 52-30 vs 51-31. I said all that to say, the Wolves are going to be much better than people want to give them credit for this upcoming season, because we still have our meat and potatoes on the roster and culturally we're void of the distraction that Butler brought with him. Thank goodness the entire circus of Thibs and Butler is gone and we can't just focus on basketball and winning games.


Well first, I just want to point out you have said nothing that disagrees with my quoted post, nothing to contradict what I put forth in it. Your personal feelings/opinion Butler's value/affects for a team and on the Thibs Butler era here as being distracting is purely personal. Just so we are clear, but I do appreciate reading your opinions and sort of understand why you believe such.

I would like to point out that for the majority of the time they were here none of the "distractions" or antics or "news" about them here was coming from them. It was coming from internal country club members, both office, team and a few players, who could not abide the changes that took place. Those internal people were voicing their opinions and drumming up "distractions". Until Butler came out in public to demand his own trade a month before the second season, please point out all the trouble he or Thibs were making. You seem to have allowed those few internal crybabies, and specifically one scorned media person if not others, to rev you up and blame them. But they weren't actually doing anything besides focusing on Basketball. To paraphrase Karl Towns this summer, he says "now we can have a culture that isn't only about basketball." That's hilarious juxtaposition from your stance that you thank goodness "the circus of Thibs/Butler" is gone so you think they can focus on only basketball and winning games. Towns, I guess, wouldn't agree. "Only basketball" is not a good thing to him. This might show one reason why a 100%-all-ball-all-day guy like Thibs and a 100% effort bball guy like Butler maybe didn't mix with Towns as we might have hoped.
These are my opinions.
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#168 » by Klomp » Fri Aug 2, 2019 6:55 pm

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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#169 » by mplsfonz23 » Fri Aug 2, 2019 7:04 pm

Jedzz,
I guess we have different opinions of professional. JB was not a pro in his time here. He thought he was a goddess. Insulting and calling teammates soft, throwing tantrums in practice, airing your displeasure on ESPN are not professional. Towns and Wiggins never said a bad word against JB or Thibs even when you could see they were not happy at all.
Yes Towns wants to do other things in life besides "only BBall." JB and Thibs had no friends so they lived in the gym. Not every one can do that. Thibs was a big distraction during games. I take it you haven't been to a game and sat close to the team. Thibs is cursing players out in the huddle....Everybody but Jimmy anyway. We won't agree on this topic, but Jimmy would not have taken this team anywhere if not for Towns.
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#170 » by Jedzz » Sat Aug 3, 2019 12:12 am

mplsfonz23 wrote:Jedzz,
I guess we have different opinions of professional. JB was not a pro in his time here. He thought he was a goddess. Insulting and calling teammates soft, throwing tantrums in practice, airing your displeasure on ESPN are not professional. Towns and Wiggins never said a bad word against JB or Thibs even when you could see they were not happy at all.
Yes Towns wants to do other things in life besides "only BBall." JB and Thibs had no friends so they lived in the gym. Not every one can do that. Thibs was a big distraction during games. I take it you haven't been to a game and sat close to the team. Thibs is cursing players out in the huddle....Everybody but Jimmy anyway. We won't agree on this topic, but Jimmy would not have taken this team anywhere if not for Towns.


You are right, we aren't going to agree on this. Jimmy has never exploded in the public like that before. It was a means to an end. I will agree it wasn't professional. But do you know what else isn't professional? Glen our owner, every dang coach, gm, and Pobo we've had, and Karl Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins behind the scenes. Acting like a professional in public is only one part of it. Working with your team the best you can is the other part. They didn't complete their end either.

The team hadn't reached the playoffs in 14 years. Then Jimmy Butler came and they did. Then Jimmy left and they no longer could sustain again. Even with Towns deciding to average over 30 pts much of the spring. I guess it was too much to ask for that guy to show up in the Bulls playoffs.

People used to give Randy Moss grief for playing when he wants to play. Here in Mother Wolves Country wanting to play ball for life is a red flag.
These are my opinions.
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#171 » by minimus » Sat Aug 3, 2019 12:18 am

Jedzz wrote:
mplsfonz23 wrote:Jedzz,
I guess we have different opinions of professional. JB was not a pro in his time here. He thought he was a goddess. Insulting and calling teammates soft, throwing tantrums in practice, airing your displeasure on ESPN are not professional. Towns and Wiggins never said a bad word against JB or Thibs even when you could see they were not happy at all.
Yes Towns wants to do other things in life besides "only BBall." JB and Thibs had no friends so they lived in the gym. Not every one can do that. Thibs was a big distraction during games. I take it you haven't been to a game and sat close to the team. Thibs is cursing players out in the huddle....Everybody but Jimmy anyway. We won't agree on this topic, but Jimmy would not have taken this team anywhere if not for Towns.


You are right, we aren't going to agree on this. Jimmy has never exploded in the public like that before. It was a means to an end. I will agree it wasn't professional. But do you know what else isn't professional? Karl Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins behind the scenes. Acting like a professional in public is only one part of it. Working with your team the best you can is the other part. They didn't complete their end either.

The team hadn't reached the playoffs in 14 years. Then Jimmy Butler came and they did. Then Jimmy left and they no longer could sustain again. Even with Towns deciding to average over 30 pts much of the spring. I guess it was too much to ask for that guy to show up in the Bulls playoffs.


What exactly was unprofessional from KATs side? Maybe any details on poor work ethic, lack of effort, cancer in locker room etc?
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#172 » by Jedzz » Sat Aug 3, 2019 12:53 am

minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
mplsfonz23 wrote:Jedzz,
I guess we have different opinions of professional. JB was not a pro in his time here. He thought he was a goddess. Insulting and calling teammates soft, throwing tantrums in practice, airing your displeasure on ESPN are not professional. Towns and Wiggins never said a bad word against JB or Thibs even when you could see they were not happy at all.
Yes Towns wants to do other things in life besides "only BBall." JB and Thibs had no friends so they lived in the gym. Not every one can do that. Thibs was a big distraction during games. I take it you haven't been to a game and sat close to the team. Thibs is cursing players out in the huddle....Everybody but Jimmy anyway. We won't agree on this topic, but Jimmy would not have taken this team anywhere if not for Towns.


You are right, we aren't going to agree on this. Jimmy has never exploded in the public like that before. It was a means to an end. I will agree it wasn't professional. But do you know what else isn't professional? Karl Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins behind the scenes. Acting like a professional in public is only one part of it. Working with your team the best you can is the other part. They didn't complete their end either.

The team hadn't reached the playoffs in 14 years. Then Jimmy Butler came and they did. Then Jimmy left and they no longer could sustain again. Even with Towns deciding to average over 30 pts much of the spring. I guess it was too much to ask for that guy to show up in the Bulls playoffs.


What exactly was unprofessional from KATs side? Maybe any details on poor work ethic, lack of effort, cancer in locker room etc?


I've covered it a 100 times over. I mentioned it again in that post. Read it.
These are my opinions.
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#173 » by old school 34 » Sat Aug 3, 2019 3:18 am

Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
You are right, we aren't going to agree on this. Jimmy has never exploded in the public like that before. It was a means to an end. I will agree it wasn't professional. But do you know what else isn't professional? Karl Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins behind the scenes. Acting like a professional in public is only one part of it. Working with your team the best you can is the other part. They didn't complete their end either.

The team hadn't reached the playoffs in 14 years. Then Jimmy Butler came and they did. Then Jimmy left and they no longer could sustain again. Even with Towns deciding to average over 30 pts much of the spring. I guess it was too much to ask for that guy to show up in the Bulls playoffs.


What exactly was unprofessional from KATs side? Maybe any details on poor work ethic, lack of effort, cancer in locker room etc?


I've covered it a 100 times over. I mentioned it again in that post. Read it.
No one can know 100% where all blame should be applied & we're all just trying to read the tea leaves...I can see both sides @ different points of it...but am most confident that all involved deserves a certain amount.

Couple thoughts though on a few points:

1. I coach some higher end youth basketball & go thru players/kids that I get that think they're giving me max effort....when in all reality it's not really & for sure not going to be enough @ the level we're playing @....my job is to get them to understand that &/or mature to the point to raise that competitive level to care about the right things....& at a very simple level...this is the same thing with Wiggins and KAT @ the nba level....does the player have to meet me halfway absolutely, but I'll always own the responsibility to approach it the right way and make sure the plan on how to get there is bought into & communicated (this is where I feel Thibs old school approach probably failed him).

2. I do agree that @ minimum JB is overrated some....he's not a #1 &/or maybe a 2 on a championship team? But he was most responsible for our playoff birth...what percentage maybe debatable, but he should be the guy with the highest percentage.

3. KAT wants to be involved with some other things besides basketball...no big deal...it's maturity on the court that's preventing him from contributing to more winning basketball not those other interests and JB kind of talks out of both ends on this with me....Thibs talked a fair amount how JB kind of had morphed into diva some with many more interests since he first came in....probably expected considering his success but a little hypocritical to me? Also, probably why he had less issue with Wiggins (@ least per reports)...just his lower profile kept him a bit more off JB's radar.

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Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#174 » by minimus » Sat Aug 3, 2019 5:42 am

Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
You are right, we aren't going to agree on this. Jimmy has never exploded in the public like that before. It was a means to an end. I will agree it wasn't professional. But do you know what else isn't professional? Karl Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins behind the scenes. Acting like a professional in public is only one part of it. Working with your team the best you can is the other part. They didn't complete their end either.

The team hadn't reached the playoffs in 14 years. Then Jimmy Butler came and they did. Then Jimmy left and they no longer could sustain again. Even with Towns deciding to average over 30 pts much of the spring. I guess it was too much to ask for that guy to show up in the Bulls playoffs.


What exactly was unprofessional from KATs side? Maybe any details on poor work ethic, lack of effort, cancer in locker room etc?


I've covered it a 100 times over. I mentioned it again in that post. Read it.


Because you like to write millions of word without facts, sources nor stats. I asked you about facts, you don't have anything to backup your assumption. And again Jimmy here needed KAT, Wiggins and others to get in playoffs. It's not like he was carrying MIN like Kawhi TOR, or Giannis in MIL.
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#175 » by KGdaBom » Sat Aug 3, 2019 7:42 am

old school 34 wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
What exactly was unprofessional from KATs side? Maybe any details on poor work ethic, lack of effort, cancer in locker room etc?


I've covered it a 100 times over. I mentioned it again in that post. Read it.
No one can know 100% where all blame should be applied & we're all just trying to read the tea leaves...I can see both sides @ different points of it...but am most confident that all involved deserves a certain amount.

Couple thoughts though on a few points:

1. I coach some higher end youth basketball & go thru players/kids that I get that think they're giving me max effort....when in all reality it's not really & for sure not going to be enough @ the level we're playing @....my job is to get them to understand that &/or mature to the point to raise that competitive level to care about the right things....& at a very simple level...this is the same thing with Wiggins and KAT @ the nba level....does the player have to meet me halfway absolutely, but I'll always own the responsibility to approach it the right way and make sure the plan on how to get there is bought into & communicated (this is where I feel Thibs old school approach probably failed him).

2. I do agree that @ minimum JB is overrated some....he's not a #1 &/or maybe a 2 on a championship team? But he was most responsible for our playoff birth...what percentage maybe debatable, but he should be the guy with the highest percentage.

3. KAT wants to be involved with some other things besides basketball...no big deal...it's maturity on the court that's preventing him from contributing to more winning basketball not those other interests and JB kind of talks out of both ends on this with me....Thibs talked a fair amount how JB kind of had morphed into diva some with many more interests since he first came in....probably expected considering his success but a little hypocritical to me? Also, probably why he had less issue with Wiggins (@ least per reports)...just his lower profile kept him a bit more off JB's radar.

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Jimmy Butler at his best was a top ten player in the league. Now he's maybe top 20. He is an extremely good player. I don't give a rat's a$$ about #1 on a championship team. I loved him on our team. He made us a winner that first year. Than he decides to be a POS the second.
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#176 » by KGdaBom » Sat Aug 3, 2019 7:43 am

minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
What exactly was unprofessional from KATs side? Maybe any details on poor work ethic, lack of effort, cancer in locker room etc?


I've covered it a 100 times over. I mentioned it again in that post. Read it.


Because you like to write millions of word without facts, sources nor stats. I asked you about facts, you don't have anything to backup your assumption. And again Jimmy here needed KAT, Wiggins and others to get in playoffs. It's not like he was carrying MIN like Kawhi TOR, or Giannis in MIL.

Butler was definitely carrying us. It doesn't mean other players didn't help, but he is the one who made the winning season happen.
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#177 » by minimus » Sat Aug 3, 2019 7:58 am

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
I've covered it a 100 times over. I mentioned it again in that post. Read it.


Because you like to write millions of word without facts, sources nor stats. I asked you about facts, you don't have anything to backup your assumption. And again Jimmy here needed KAT, Wiggins and others to get in playoffs. It's not like he was carrying MIN like Kawhi TOR, or Giannis in MIL.

Butler was definitely carrying us. It doesn't mean other players didn't help, but he is the one who made the winning season happen.


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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#178 » by Jedzz » Sat Aug 3, 2019 10:23 am

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
Because you like to write millions of word without facts, sources nor stats. I asked you about facts, you don't have anything to backup your assumption. And again Jimmy here needed KAT, Wiggins and others to get in playoffs. It's not like he was carrying MIN like Kawhi TOR, or Giannis in MIL.

Butler was definitely carrying us. It doesn't mean other players didn't help, but he is the one who made the winning season happen.




:lol: Did that Butler hater / video master show all of a couple game events out of a full season?

Right. Because all the great team leaders taking final shots hit them all the time. Cut em if they don't. That's what you and the video creator want us to think, right? I'll let Klomp post his clip of Lebron here.

The sad truth is that it is all the play before those final shots, his play in third and fourth quarters that in many wins was enough to seal it earlier, and then occasionally he did save from a loss with a late shot. I think Wiggins has maybe at least two of those in all his time so far. You know, the real thing this team was always missing previously. Someone that would bring the wood and effort more consistently to finish games instead of letting 20 pt leads evaporate and just throw their hands in the air.

I remember Towns in October last season taking a final shot from 34 feet I think. He lets if fly before he gets anywhere near traffic. Would have been great if it went in. But it didn't and with around 1 second left afterwards the game was over. Shame on him for trying to save a loss, right? Don't do it too often or that mighty average stat will drop.
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#179 » by minimus » Sat Aug 3, 2019 10:33 am

Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Butler was definitely carrying us. It doesn't mean other players didn't help, but he is the one who made the winning season happen.




:lol: Did that Butler hater / video master show all of a couple game events out of a full season?

Right. Because all the great team leaders taking final shots hit them all the time. Cut em if they don't. That's what you and the video creator want us to think, right? I'll let Klomp post his clip of Lebron here.

The sad truth is that it is all the play before those final shots, his play in third and fourth quarters that in many wins was enough to seal it earlier, and then occasionally he did save from a loss with a late shot. I think Wiggins has maybe at least two of those in all his time so far. You know, the real thing this team was always missing previously. Someone that would bring the wood and effort more consistently to finish games instead of letting 20 pt leads evaporate and just throw their hands in the air.

I remember Towns in October last season taking a final shot from 34 feet I think. He lets if fly before he gets anywhere near traffic. Would have been great if it went in. But it didn't and with around 1 second left afterwards the game was over. Shame on him for trying to save a loss, right? Don't do it too often or that mighty average stat will drop.


You can make another video about Butler winning shots in MIN. Or at least provide some stats to discuss. Butler played hero ball here without passing the ball. He couldn't adjust next to KAT and Wiggins so he simply took the ball away from them in clutch.
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Re: Offseason Team News/Updates 

Post#180 » by Jedzz » Sat Aug 3, 2019 6:37 pm

minimus wrote:
You can make another video about Butler winning shots in MIN. Or at least provide some stats to discuss. Butler played hero ball here without passing the ball. He couldn't adjust next to KAT and Wiggins so he simply took the ball away from them in clutch.


Total epic delusion or denial. You can keep believing Kat and Wiggins carried the team to the playoffs that season. I am absolutely never going to respond to you again.
These are my opinions.

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