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Trade Talk (Part Two)

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Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#1 » by Domejandro » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:07 am

Continued from this thread....
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1749647
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#2 » by yawner » Mon Jun 3, 2019 9:27 am

I would do a Batum x Wiggins, if the Hornets add their first round pick. I think it´s very unlikely they would accept it. But, to have a burnt player getting 27 millions for 2 years would be very painful for sure.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#3 » by mercgold3 » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:08 pm

yawner wrote:I would do a Batum x Wiggins, if the Hornets add their first round pick. I think it´s very unlikely they would accept it. But, to have a burnt player getting 27 millions for 2 years would be very painful for sure.


Paying Batum 27M for 2 years »»»»»»»» Wiggins, 30 millions for the next 4 years
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#4 » by yawner » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:24 pm

mercgold3 wrote:
yawner wrote:I would do a Batum x Wiggins, if the Hornets add their first round pick. I think it´s very unlikely they would accept it. But, to have a burnt player getting 27 millions for 2 years would be very painful for sure.


Paying Batum 27M for »»»»»»»» Wiggins, 30 millions for the next 4 years


I don´t know, while I agree that Wiggins is a mess on the court, one has to take into account that he can score, and therefore, he can be, somehow, useful. On the other hand, Batum doesn´t score and I don´t know if he can be a useful defensive player. It might be a problem to pay 27 millions to a useless player, considering the Wolves want to compete for wins and fight for playoffs. I´m afraid of him spoiling the chances of competing for wins during the next two seasons, which might make Towns end up willing to quit the team. With Wiggins, there´s a chance the new Timberwolves staff can get positive performance from him, and perhaps find a team in the future to make a good trade with.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#5 » by theGreatRC » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:33 pm

Teague + 11 for 6

Gives us extra cap to be a bigger player in FA, gives Suns a veteran PG on an expiring deal + only moving a few spots back. Is it a fair deal?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#6 » by Worm Guts » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:36 pm

theGreatRC wrote:Teague + 11 for 6

Gives us extra cap to be a bigger player in FA, gives Suns a veteran PG on an expiring deal + only moving a few spots back. Is it a fair deal?


I’m pretty sure we would have to take back salary for it to even be considered, and then it’s going to depend on what salary.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#7 » by Domejandro » Mon Jun 3, 2019 5:22 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
theGreatRC wrote:Teague + 11 for 6

Gives us extra cap to be a bigger player in FA, gives Suns a veteran PG on an expiring deal + only moving a few spots back. Is it a fair deal?


I’m pretty sure we would have to take back salary for it to even be considered, and then it’s going to depend on what salary.

Jeff Teague + #11 for Tyler Johnson and #6 is a foundation of a trade that I see as possible.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#8 » by yawner » Mon Jun 3, 2019 5:28 pm

If the Suns can pick a good PG in the draft, I don´t know why would they want Jeff Teague (and trade down). If they need a veteran PG, can´t they use cap-space to get one? There are lots of PG´s out there.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#9 » by GeekFreak » Mon Jun 3, 2019 9:25 pm

Lol, we could finally get our man Batum after all these years? Only fat lazy old bald turtle looking Batum. :banghead:
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#10 » by old school 34 » Mon Jun 3, 2019 9:42 pm

The front office hires combined with pending FA being what it's going to be this year, & how the draft lottery fell.....all have me extremely optimistic that we have a real opportunity to make significant roster changes (even w/ just marginal assets)....which is going to be very essential if we're serious about playing a more modern game already next year while still trying to be at least a marginal potential playoff team.

Couple things that I'm interested to learn to make appropriate offseason plan (where does Rosas feel on these fronts):

1. Re-evaluate KAT...he's our star that we want to build around I get it....but how do we still use him (many have said build like Mil--which makes sense, but is he a better version BL or Giannis---meaning is he setting the pick or can he evolve to initiating some as a ballhandler?)....tells you who your 2nd big should be---a Capela-type or Siakom (neither role that Saric really fills....really feels like he should be a trade chip or our 1st big off the bench).

2. Stay w/ Wiggs @ least one more year (Is the PR real??)...I hope he believes what he's publicly stated....I get why the fans are done w/ him, but no reason to sell this low on him.....there is like only a 2% chance that his trade value can get any lower....unless a just 'pie in the sky' offer comes....trust this new regime on their player development focus to @ minimum raise his value some (as well as his deal get another year shorter).

3. Need a modern PG if you want any chance of thinking playoffs next year....boxes that they have to check: play make/score off dribble; willing 3pt shooter; & play D &/or switchable....which none of guys from last year check very many of these boxes....what's the best option to obtain the right guy that can check as many of those boxes as possible & the PG that maybe can't do one of those things then needs to for sure have that box checked in that other big starter.

4. Roco's best position is at the 3, but could he play the bulk of his minutes &/or start @ the 4? There might be better realistic offseason plans where playing him @ the 4 w/ another playmaking wing might be the better route? Eventually as he ages...he probably goes that route anyways (Luol Deng trajectory)....something to consider as a real option?

5. Maximize value of the draft.....& I don't think it's drafting @ 11.....either trade up or down.....Don't feel Zion or Ja are even attainable because the way things fell, but helped in ensuring that two all star vets will be moved in Conley & AD which potentially creates momentum to other moves. So you only trade up if your 100% confident on 1 of these 3: Garland, RJ, &/or Sekou being able to develop into allstar caliber guys....if you think they could become that for you....then you probably can come up w/ a match w/ NY, LA, or Phx (depending on which guy---some of those teams still might not be high enough). And if you don't want to go that way or don't trust the evaluation of those 3....trade back & hopefully get out of either Dieng &/or Teague....it is way more valuable to get some financial flexibility over the downgrade in Player A @ 11 vs. getting someone much later like NAW (board fav) or even Claxton?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#11 » by Nick K » Mon Jun 3, 2019 11:00 pm

old school 34 wrote:The front office hires combined with pending FA being what it's going to be this year, & how the draft lottery fell.....all have me extremely optimistic that we have a real opportunity to make significant roster changes (even w/ just marginal assets)....which is going to be very essential if we're serious about playing a more modern game already next year while still trying to be at least a marginal potential playoff team.

Couple things that I'm interested to learn to make appropriate offseason plan (where does Rosas feel on these fronts):

1. Re-evaluate KAT...he's our star that we want to build around I get it....but how do we still use him (many have said build like Mil--which makes sense, but is he a better version BL or Giannis---meaning is he setting the pick or can he evolve to initiating some as a ballhandler?)....tells you who your 2nd big should be---a Capela-type or Siakom (neither role that Saric really fills....really feels like he should be a trade chip or our 1st big off the bench).

2. Stay w/ Wiggs @ least one more year (Is the PR real??)...I hope he believes what he's publicly stated....I get why the fans are done w/ him, but no reason to sell this low on him.....there is like only a 2% chance that his trade value can get any lower....unless a just 'pie in the sky' offer comes....trust this new regime on their player development focus to @ minimum raise his value some (as well as his deal get another year shorter).

3. Need a modern PG if you want any chance of thinking playoffs next year....boxes that they have to check: play make/score off dribble; willing 3pt shooter; & play D &/or switchable....which none of guys from last year check very many of these boxes....what's the best option to obtain the right guy that can check as many of those boxes as possible & the PG that maybe can't do one of those things then needs to for sure have that box checked in that other big starter.

4. Roco's best position is at the 3, but could he play the bulk of his minutes &/or start @ the 4? There might be better realistic offseason plans where playing him @ the 4 w/ another playmaking wing might be the better route? Eventually as he ages...he probably goes that route anyways (Luol Deng trajectory)....something to consider as a real option?

5. Maximize value of the draft.....& I don't think it's drafting @ 11.....either trade up or down.....Don't feel Zion or Ja are even attainable because the way things fell, but helped in ensuring that two all star vets will be moved in Conley & AD which potentially creates momentum to other moves. So you only trade up if your 100% confident on 1 of these 3: Garland, RJ, &/or Sekou being able to develop into allstar caliber guys....if you think they could become that for you....then you probably can come up w/ a match w/ NY, LA, or Phx (depending on which guy---some of those teams still might not be high enough). And if you don't want to go that way or don't trust the evaluation of those 3....trade back & hopefully get out of either Dieng &/or Teague....it is way more valuable to get some financial flexibility over the downgrade in Player A @ 11 vs. getting someone much later like NAW (board fav) or even Claxton?


I like a lot of these ideas old school 34. I'm intrigued with seeing if they can develop Wigs this year. Give him the right coaches and psychologist and just maybe he blows up? Giving him away as a salary dump makes zero sense to me, at least right now.

They might trade down. I wouldn't, I'd take NAW but they will have a much better idea internally how the draft plays out. Outside of KAT, Zach, Rubio, Wally and KG they never take who I want them to. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to the new regime this year. I can't wait to see how it all turns out.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#12 » by shrink » Tue Jun 4, 2019 3:41 pm

Domejandro wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:
theGreatRC wrote:Teague + 11 for 6

Gives us extra cap to be a bigger player in FA, gives Suns a veteran PG on an expiring deal + only moving a few spots back. Is it a fair deal?


I’m pretty sure we would have to take back salary for it to even be considered, and then it’s going to depend on what salary.

Jeff Teague + #11 for Tyler Johnson and #6 is a foundation of a trade that I see as possible.


yawner wrote:If the Suns can pick a good PG in the draft, I don´t know why would they want Jeff Teague (and trade down). If they need a veteran PG, can´t they use cap-space to get one? There are lots of PG´s out there.


I also think Teague #11 for Tyler Johnson #6 is fairer for value. Tyler Johnson has about the same contract as Teague, but he’s decidely a worse player, and a far worse fit for PHX. Johnson is a no-pass scorer, and this doesn’t develop PHX’ lottery youth or Booker, where the team has invested legitimate assets.

I see value for the Suns in getting a vet startable PG, even if they draft a PG. Most rookies are negative players, and rookie PG’s are some of the worst because the position is so difficult. And while on a rebuilding team, I often don’t mind letting a young player learn from his mistakes, when you do it with a PG, all five positions struggle. PHX needs to evaluate and develop with youth.

Teague 11 might help move PHX in the right direction, but if I were them, I would probably opt to draft a PG at #6 (where they should still be able to get one), and use their cap space to sign a vet PG, like Rubio. However, this causes two problems. It costs them the cap space (which they could trade or use elsewhere), and it’s unlikely Rubio or any starter PG would be willing to sign for one year.

If they prefer to keep the cap space and get an expiring, Teague or Dragic seem like a good fit. Dragic though may not want to come back to PHX, and MIA suffers with the lux if they take back Tyler Johnson. Perhaps a trade of Dinwiddie 17 for 6 makes sense. If OHX wants to maintain cap space and send Johnson, BRK would likely decline - they have their own cap space ambitions.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#13 » by Crazy-Canuck » Wed Jun 5, 2019 3:29 am

teague to orlando

Magic looking for a pg and teague is a playoff tested pg for that young team all at the cost of a guy that doesnt play.

Schroeder + 21 to Minnesota

Schoreder takes over roses role as scorer off the bench. Tyus starts.

Then wolves send the 21 + dieng to the hawks for Plumlee
Hawks are looking to add salary for picks.

OKC get Mozgov

back up minutes on an expiring deal. They shed Schroeder's contract for a big that can back up Adams.

Tyus/Schroeder
Wiggs/Okogie
Cov/Reynolds
Saric/Clarke
KAt/Plumlee
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#14 » by theGreatRC » Wed Jun 5, 2019 3:55 am

Crazy-Canuck wrote:teague to orlando

Magic looking for a pg and teague is a playoff tested pg for that young team all at the cost of a guy that doesnt play.

Schroeder + 21 to Minnesota

Schoreder takes over roses role as scorer off the bench. Tyus starts.

Then wolves send the 21 + dieng to the hawks for Plumlee
Hawks are looking to add salary for picks.

OKC get Mozgov

back up minutes on an expiring deal. They shed Schroeder's contract for a big that can back up Adams.

Tyus/Schroeder
Wiggs/Okogie
Cov/Reynolds
Saric/Clarke
KAt/Plumlee


Schreoder on this team would make me want to gouge my eyes out.

He and Reggie Jackson are probably the 2 PGs that'd make me gag if they were on this team

I do like your idea of Teague to Orlando, though
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#15 » by shangrila » Wed Jun 5, 2019 8:24 am

Someone on Canis threw out a pretty interesting trade;

Cleveland gets:
Jeff Teague
Gorgui Dieng
11th pick

MIN gets:
JR Smith
Matthew Dellavedova
Cedi Osman
26th pick

The obvious point here is shedding salary. Smith is only guaranteed for about 3mil and is the only contract leftover from the old CBA that allows you to trade him for his full salary amount rather than only the guaranteed part. In essence, instant capspace. Delly is an expiring as well, so we'd save money instantly AND shed a year off Dieng's deal. Getting Osman would be nice as he seems solid and Delly himself is a decent vet at a position of need.

But moving down 15 spots just to shed salary hurts. I'm also doubtful that Cleveland would be willing to include Osman in this deal and without him it gets more complicated (the closest salaries are Sexton, obvious no-go, and Zizic who's just a little too cheap to make the trade work). It also doesn't get us in the realm of offering a contract to someone like Russell, which is where the trade originated. The poster said it gets us 18mil in capspace. I'm not sure of that myself though as the capulator on shamsports disagrees. According to that even if you waive and stretch Smith (so he counts 1.26mil against the cap the next 3 years) AND renounce all the FAs (including Tyus) you'd be at 15mil of pure capspace. Which is still nice, all things considered, and would put us in a decent position to go after the lower tier, more complimentary FAs (like a Mirotic).
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#16 » by minimus » Wed Jun 5, 2019 8:46 am

The Oklahoma City Thunder are apparently open to trading the No. 21 overall pick in the 2019 NBA Draft, according to Sham Charania of The Athletic.

The report indicated that the Thunder are apparently motivated to move the pick in a trade in order to reduce team salary and relieve future financial pressure.


Can we get OKC #21?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#17 » by Domejandro » Wed Jun 5, 2019 11:13 am

Calling it here, Minnesota will be the third team in a Brooklyn and New Orleans Anthony Davis Trade, and we will trade Jeff Teague, Gorgui Dieng, #11 (agreed upon ahead of time), and a future first as a mechanism to sign-and-trade for D'Angelo Russell. Originally I was just making a post on here, but I expanded it a substantial amount. Obviously this is all pseudo-intellectual, speculative fluff, but here is a structured trade concept.

Spoiler:
All of this will happen after Kyrie Irving and one other near maximum Free-Agent (Tobias Harris is my guess) signs with the Brooklyn Nets. This trade would have to be agreed upon before the Draft, so naturally a bunch of these assets would be shuffled around and utilized during the Draft for however New Orleans sees fit. That said, this is a rough break-down of the assets, without all that convoluted stuff that would obviously happen.

*Caveat is that Brooklyn will have to shed Allen Crabbe ahead of time. To do so, I have assumed that it would cost #27 and their 2020 First Round Draft Pick. If it costs less, fair enough, more value to New Orleans

**An important note: "Why wouldn't New Orleans just take D'Angelo Russell?" This trade is at the mercy of D'Angelo Russell being willing to be sign-and-traded in the first place. The trade collapses completely, if that does not happen; I can explain in more detail if needed, but hopefully that makes sense.

***Secondary note: A fourth team to trade for Jeff Teague and give a bad expiring + value to New Orleans would be great, but this trade is complicated enough, so let's leave that aside (or feel free to theory craft).

BKN: Anthony Davis and Gorgui Dieng
OUT: D'Angelo Russell (Max sign-and-trade), Spencer Dinwiddie, Jarrett Allen, Caris LeVert, Rodions Kurucs, #17, #31, Brooklyn's 2021 Unprotected First Round Draft Pick (Swap), Brooklyn's 2022 Unprotected First Round Draft Pick, Brooklyn's 2023 Unprotected First Round Draft Pick (Swap) and Brooklyn's 2024 Unprotected First Round Draft Pick

Why for Brooklyn? Get Anthony Davis to play alongside Kyrie Irving and another maximum Free-Agent, while still maintaining Joe Harris and getting a capable starting Center (also trade-able salary).

Kyrie Irving / Shabazz Napier
Joe Harris / Treveon Graham
Near Max Free-Agent /
Anthony Davis / Džanan Musa
Gorgui Dieng /

MIN: D'Angelo Russell and Solomon Hill
OUT: Jeff Teague, Gorgui Dieng, #11, and Minnesota's Protected 2020 First Round Draft Pick

Why for Minnesota? Massively upgrade at Point-Guard, getting Karl-Anthony Towns' best friend.

D'Angelo Russell / Tyus Jones (RFA)
Andrew Wiggins / Josh Okogie / Cameron Reynolds
Robert Covington / Solomon Hill
Dario Šarić / Keita Bates-Diop
Karl-Anthony Towns /


NOP: Jeff Teague, Spencer Dinwiddie, Jarrett Allen, Caris LeVert, Rodions Kurucs, #11, #17, #31, Minnesota's Protected 2020 First Round Draft Pick, Brooklyn's 2021 Unprotected First Round Draft Pick (Swap), Brooklyn's 2022 Unprotected First Round Draft Pick, Brooklyn's 2023 Unprotected First Round Draft Pick (Swap), Brooklyn's 2024 Unprotected First Round Draft Pick, and Brooklyn's 2026 Protected First Round Draft Pick
OUT: Anthony Davis and Solomon Hill

Why for New Orleans? Get a wealth of quality First Round Draft Picks (current and future) and a collection of quality young players. Send Anthony Davis east.

Jeff Teague would likely be moved and Caris LeVert would slide in as the obvious starter, but I'm just going to lay it out as is to limit confusion.

Jeff Teague (Trade) / Spencer Dinwiddie / Frank Jackson
Jrue Holiday / Caris LeVert
E'Twaun Moore / Rodions Kurucs / Kenrich Williams
Zion Williamson / Christian Wood
Jarrett Allen / Jahlil Okafor

+#11, #17, #31, #39, #57

First Round Draft Pick Asset Breakdown After Draft (not listing own Draft Picks):
2020 First Round Draft Pick (Minnesota Protected)
2021 First Round Draft Pick Swap (Brooklyn Nets)
2022 First Round Draft Pick (Brooklyn Nets Unprotected)
2023 First Round Draft Pick Swap (Brooklyn Nets)
2024 First Round Draft Pick (Brooklyn Nets Unprotected)
2026 First Round Draft Pick (Brooklyn Protected)
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#18 » by minimus » Wed Jun 5, 2019 11:34 am

Domejandro wrote:Calling it here, Minnesota will be the third team in a Brooklyn and New Orleans Anthony Davis Trade, and we will trade Jeff Teague, Gorgui Dieng, #11 (agreed upon ahead of time), and a future first as a mechanism to sign-and-trade for D'Angelo Russell.


I like this idea! Two FRPs would be a bit too much, and I'm concerned about playing Wiggins and D-Lo together. I'd rather trade Wiggins for a role player on shorter contract.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#19 » by Domejandro » Wed Jun 5, 2019 11:38 am

minimus wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Calling it here, Minnesota will be the third team in a Brooklyn and New Orleans Anthony Davis Trade, and we will trade Jeff Teague, Gorgui Dieng, #11 (agreed upon ahead of time), and a future first as a mechanism to sign-and-trade for D'Angelo Russell.


I like this idea! Two FRPs would be a bit too much, and I'm concerned about playing Wiggins and D-Lo together. I'd rather trade Wiggins for a role player on shorter contract.

While that is fair, I don't think trading Andrew Wiggins is really that easy, haha. It is definitely a bit pricey for Minnesota to pay #11 and next year's first (Protected, though) to max D'Angelo Russell, but this is exactly the kind of trade I could see Gupta and Rosas pulling off, if they believe D'Angelo Russell has an even higher ceiling. I think this is the kind of trade that would be a massive ceiling-raiser for the team, which is exactly what we need.

D'Angelo Russell / Tyus Jones (RFA)
Andrew Wiggins / Josh Okogie / Cameron Reynolds
Robert Covington / Solomon Hill
Dario Šarić / Keita Bates-Diop
Karl-Anthony Towns /

I just look at that roster and think "man, that is such an unbelievable wealth of young talent".
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Two) 

Post#20 » by minimus » Wed Jun 5, 2019 11:53 am

Domejandro wrote:
minimus wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Calling it here, Minnesota will be the third team in a Brooklyn and New Orleans Anthony Davis Trade, and we will trade Jeff Teague, Gorgui Dieng, #11 (agreed upon ahead of time), and a future first as a mechanism to sign-and-trade for D'Angelo Russell.


I like this idea! Two FRPs would be a bit too much, and I'm concerned about playing Wiggins and D-Lo together. I'd rather trade Wiggins for a role player on shorter contract.

While that is fair, I don't think trading Andrew Wiggins is really that easy, haha. It is definitely a bit pricey for Minnesota to pay #11 and next year's first (Protected, though) to max D'Angelo Russell, but this is exactly the kind of trade I could see Gupta and Rosas pulling off, if they believe D'Angelo Russell has an even higher ceiling. I think this is the kind of trade that would be a massive ceiling-raiser for the team, which is exactly what we need.

D'Angelo Russell / Tyus Jones (RFA)
Andrew Wiggins / Josh Okogie / Cameron Reynolds
Robert Covington / Solomon Hill
Dario Šarić / Keita Bates-Diop
Karl-Anthony Towns /

I just look at that roster and think "man, that is such an unbelievable wealth of young talent".


I mean I think that in this setup we have two excellent shotcreators in D-Lo and KAT, which makes Wiggins and his max contract a waste. I'd balance our roster with this trade Wiggins for Parsons, future SRP.

Draft Naz Reid, waive Parsons.

Russell/Tyus
Okogie/Russell/Reynolds
Covington/Reynolds/KBD
Dario Šarić/KBD/Reid
KAT/Reid

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