RealGM

Calinks wrote:It's pretty much peak videogame movie experience. You are playing a game but the acting, writing, detail, is top-notch. Game is completely gruesome and dark though, a turn off for a lot of people.

Calinks wrote:So I am pretty deep into Last of Us 2 at this point and I see why the game is controversial. There a few things that are going on. Some are major story events that some fans may be unhappy with. Some is people who don't like the way the game has put on emphasis on strong female characters and people who are very anti "SJW" ideals in media. None of that has bothered me. What I do think is affecting a lot of people though, and for good reasons, is the violence.

This game is extremely violent. We are talking 30-40 hours worth of brutality. Not only is it like action game pew pew violence, it's people getting eaten, ripped apart, mauled, bludgeoned with hammers, etc. Not only that, sometimes the story forces you or your character to do terrible things. There is some degree of thin justification, you aren't simply maiming people for joy but it's still extremely cold and savage.

I think for a lot of people it's a bit much, especially with the current climate. It's a deeply dark and traumatic story. I am personally thoroughly enjoying it but I think I am playing it in the right head space. It's like watching a really harsh movie. For some people they just well not be comfortable with what is going on. I totally get that. I don't think its a game for everyone, that's for sure.

Calinks wrote:So I am pretty deep into Last of Us 2 at this point and I see why the game is controversial. There a few things that are going on. Some are major story events that some fans may be unhappy with. Some is people who don't like the way the game has put on emphasis on strong female characters and people who are very anti "SJW" ideals in media. None of that has bothered me. What I do think is affecting a lot of people though, and for good reasons, is the violence.

This game is extremely violent. We are talking 30-40 hours worth of brutality. Not only is it like action game pew pew violence, it's people getting eaten, ripped apart, mauled, bludgeoned with hammers, etc. Not only that, sometimes the story forces you or your character to do terrible things. There is some degree of thin justification, you aren't simply maiming people for joy but it's still extremely cold and savage.

I think for a lot of people it's a bit much, especially with the current climate. It's a deeply dark and traumatic story. I am personally thoroughly enjoying it but I think I am playing it in the right head space. It's like watching a really harsh movie. For some people they just well not be comfortable with what is going on. I totally get that. I don't think its a game for everyone, that's for sure.

UcanUwill wrote:

Calinks wrote:So I am pretty deep into Last of Us 2 at this point and I see why the game is controversial. There a few things that are going on. Some are major story events that some fans may be unhappy with. Some is people who don't like the way the game has put on emphasis on strong female characters and people who are very anti "SJW" ideals in media. None of that has bothered me. What I do think is affecting a lot of people though, and for good reasons, is the violence.

This game is extremely violent. We are talking 30-40 hours worth of brutality. Not only is it like action game pew pew violence, it's people getting eaten, ripped apart, mauled, bludgeoned with hammers, etc. Not only that, sometimes the story forces you or your character to do terrible things. There is some degree of thin justification, you aren't simply maiming people for joy but it's still extremely cold and savage.

I think for a lot of people it's a bit much, especially with the current climate. It's a deeply dark and traumatic story. I am personally thoroughly enjoying it but I think I am playing it in the right head space. It's like watching a really harsh movie. For some people they just well not be comfortable with what is going on. I totally get that. I don't think its a game for everyone, that's for sure.

I am with Jim Sterling rolling my eyes at game director who basically stated that they wanted to make murdering as realistic as possible. For years games tried to advocate itself against anti intellectuals who blamed real world violence on video games, saying games are just games, but now we have game directors who literally say they want to simulate murder in their game. I get the need for realism in todays games, but if you really need murdering in games to be as real as possible, I dont know man.

KGdaBom wrote:My son will LOVE IT. I wonder if there will be an option to just watch the game as a movie?

Calinks wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:

Calinks wrote:So I am pretty deep into Last of Us 2 at this point and I see why the game is controversial. There a few things that are going on. Some are major story events that some fans may be unhappy with. Some is people who don't like the way the game has put on emphasis on strong female characters and people who are very anti "SJW" ideals in media. None of that has bothered me. What I do think is affecting a lot of people though, and for good reasons, is the violence.

This game is extremely violent. We are talking 30-40 hours worth of brutality. Not only is it like action game pew pew violence, it's people getting eaten, ripped apart, mauled, bludgeoned with hammers, etc. Not only that, sometimes the story forces you or your character to do terrible things. There is some degree of thin justification, you aren't simply maiming people for joy but it's still extremely cold and savage.

I think for a lot of people it's a bit much, especially with the current climate. It's a deeply dark and traumatic story. I am personally thoroughly enjoying it but I think I am playing it in the right head space. It's like watching a really harsh movie. For some people they just well not be comfortable with what is going on. I totally get that. I don't think its a game for everyone, that's for sure.

I am with Jim Sterling rolling my eyes at game director who basically stated that they wanted to make murdering as realistic as possible. For years games tried to advocate itself against anti intellectuals who blamed real world violence on video games, saying games are just games, but now we have game directors who literally say they want to simulate murder in their game. I get the need for realism in todays games, but if you really need murdering in games to be as real as possible, I dont know man.

It's a touchy subject. I actually appreciate it myself. I enjoy a degree of realism and I like dark gritty films and stories. I don't like the violence purely for the sake of violence, I like an impactful story to go along with it. I think the last of Us 2 is mature enough to pull that off.

The violence in here is packed all over and yea it will be overwhelming for some. That said I think there is a place for it, I think mature players can appreciate it, there will absolutely be some people who just love the "violence porn" of it all too though. I think if this game came out in the late 90's it would be blasted all over the news as you say, as a game that promotes violence or influences kids negatively. This is not a game designed for kids (though some kids will play it, I very likely would have gotten my hands on it as a kid but at the same time I was a kid who this kind of stuff wouldn't negatively impact, not all are.)

I liken it to Taxi Driver, Pulp Fiction, or Saving Private Ryan. The Overall writing so far maybe won't live up to some of these films, and the violence is more pronounced and constant seeing as this is a 40-hour game but for the violence plays a similar role. It informs the story, makes the events more impactful. This game will likely stick with me. It's a thin line but I feel this game walks it well, others will not agree, however. I am definitely leaning towards the idea that this is a narrative masterpiece, like the first game.

KGdaBom wrote:My son will LOVE IT. I wonder if there will be an option to just watch the game as a movie?

Often times someone just uploads the cut scenes of a game, you could probably find a video on youtube that does that. If not now someone will probably do it eventually.

Calinks wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:

Calinks wrote:So I am pretty deep into Last of Us 2 at this point and I see why the game is controversial. There a few things that are going on. Some are major story events that some fans may be unhappy with. Some is people who don't like the way the game has put on emphasis on strong female characters and people who are very anti "SJW" ideals in media. None of that has bothered me. What I do think is affecting a lot of people though, and for good reasons, is the violence.

This game is extremely violent. We are talking 30-40 hours worth of brutality. Not only is it like action game pew pew violence, it's people getting eaten, ripped apart, mauled, bludgeoned with hammers, etc. Not only that, sometimes the story forces you or your character to do terrible things. There is some degree of thin justification, you aren't simply maiming people for joy but it's still extremely cold and savage.

I think for a lot of people it's a bit much, especially with the current climate. It's a deeply dark and traumatic story. I am personally thoroughly enjoying it but I think I am playing it in the right head space. It's like watching a really harsh movie. For some people they just well not be comfortable with what is going on. I totally get that. I don't think its a game for everyone, that's for sure.

I am with Jim Sterling rolling my eyes at game director who basically stated that they wanted to make murdering as realistic as possible. For years games tried to advocate itself against anti intellectuals who blamed real world violence on video games, saying games are just games, but now we have game directors who literally say they want to simulate murder in their game. I get the need for realism in todays games, but if you really need murdering in games to be as real as possible, I dont know man.

It's a touchy subject. I actually appreciate it myself. I enjoy a degree of realism and I like dark gritty films and stories. I don't like the violence purely for the sake of violence, I like an impactful story to go along with it. I think the last of Us 2 is mature enough to pull that off.

The violence in here is packed all over and yea it will be overwhelming for some. That said I think there is a place for it, I think mature players can appreciate it, there will absolutely be some people who just love the "violence porn" of it all too though. I think if this game came out in the late 90's it would be blasted all over the news as you say, as a game that promotes violence or influences kids negatively. This is not a game designed for kids (though some kids will play it, I very likely would have gotten my hands on it as a kid but at the same time I was a kid who this kind of stuff wouldn't negatively impact, not all are.)

I liken it to Taxi Driver, Pulp Fiction, or Saving Private Ryan. The Overall writing so far maybe won't live up to some of these films, and the violence is more pronounced and constant seeing as this is a 40-hour game but for the violence plays a similar role. It informs the story, makes the events more impactful. This game will likely stick with me. It's a thin line but I feel this game walks it well, others will not agree, however. I am definitely leaning towards the idea that this is a narrative masterpiece, like the first game.

KGdaBom wrote:My son will LOVE IT. I wonder if there will be an option to just watch the game as a movie?

Often times someone just uploads the cut scenes of a game, you could probably find a video on youtube that does that. If not now someone will probably do it eventually.

Calinks wrote:I finished Last of Us 2. Got to say, for me the game did start to unravel a bit as it went out. I don't have many problems with a lot of the controversial story elements that take place, particularly the time issues that really pissed people off, but I do think the game dragged in places, was too long and could have been tighter. That said, I do appreciate most of the ballsy moves they took. Much of this was masterful but again, I think it got kind of sloppy in areas and it comes up short.

I still really enjoyed it though and don't at all regret getting it. None of the stuff that set some people off bothered me all that much if at all. That said, I have a high tolerance level for movies and games as long as I think there is quality story/acting. I also don't have a problem with grey characters.

LibertyPrime wrote:

Calinks wrote:I finished Last of Us 2. Got to say, for me the game did start to unravel a bit as it went out. I don't have many problems with a lot of the controversial story elements that take place, particularly the time issues that really pissed people off, but I do think the game dragged in places, was too long and could have been tighter. That said, I do appreciate most of the ballsy moves they took. Much of this was masterful but again, I think it got kind of sloppy in areas and it comes up short.

I still really enjoyed it though and don't at all regret getting it. None of the stuff that set some people off bothered me all that much if at all. That said, I have a high tolerance level for movies and games as long as I think there is quality story/acting. I also don't have a problem with grey characters.

I.... agree and disagree with this. It was ballsy, not just in terms of violence but also in terms of narrative choices and in terms of making the player adopt new points of view. I'm not bothered by the fact that it is a violent video game; I've played dozens.

But.....

***SPOILERS AND MAJOR RANT BEGIN HERE*** Don't read unless you want to see an alleged adult reading WAY too much into a video game.

Spoiler:

TLOU2 is not a good time. It is an incredible work of art, but it is not a good time.

No narrative decision by any videogame developer has ever left as sour a taste as TLOU2's decision to put the player in the role of Joel's killer for HOURS AND HOURS on end. I HATED Abby. The game does such a masterful job of making her the villain - that is, straight up murdering Joel right after he saved her life, and doing so in the most gruesome and hateful way possible in front of his daughter (for all intents and purposes) that its belated attempts to make her likable (and boy oh boy does the game pour THAT on during Abby's story, including Abby saving an endangered child* for tear-jerking purposes) feel cheap and manipulative to me. It's like saying, "sure, Richard Ramirez WAS the Night Stalker, but here's a picture of him cuddling a puppy!"

*Oh, and about that kid - if you're trying to make your game REALISTIC, maybe don't include a child who is essentially a bad-ass ninja warrior, just so that child can be saved by Abby in the name of leveraging the cognitive dissonance the game is trying to induce.

All this happens at the same time that the game is dragging out the climactic confrontation between Elle and Abby so that we could have this unwanted detour into Abby's life. It made me feel disgusted and angry. The game's finale - where Elle KINDA saves her but then kinda doesn't but then just kinda lets her go because reasons - is just more of the emotional whiplash that characterizes the second half of this game.

In the end, Elle's trip to Seattle accomplishes little besides costing her her relationships, her fingers, and the lives of several dozen Seattle residents - many identified by name to further increase the feelings of sh****ness - AND the life of one of her dear friends, who dies suddenly horrifically (again, at the hands of Abby) and is barely referenced again.** Is the game's moral that violence is horrifying and revenge is an empty platter? Great! I guess I won't be buying the TLOU3 then, since it's a series that literally built its name on horrific violence.

**This is despite him giving his life to protect his ex-girlfirend and Elle (and then conveniently dying so they can have their own relationship).

I understand that Naughty Dog was trying to make bold strides forward with this game and shake off some of the established video game/action movie tropes. But this ignores the fact that tropes are tropes for a reason. If you saw most action movies making the feel-bad kind of choices that TLOU2 does, they wouldn't be nearly as popular as they are. There's something parasitic about hyping your game based on things people in general love and then making them feel terrible about loving them. I completely support the freedom of ND to make whatever kind of story they want; after all, I'm not a multimillion dollar games studio and clearly they must be doing something right. I just want to suggest that, making people feel bad, in the long run, isn't a great commercial strategy.

Can't wait the next game in the series, which I hear is being developed under the name The Last of Us, Part 3: Now You're Hitler! You're Just Hitler, okay? What, Are You Not WOKE Enough to Be Hitler? C'mon, Spend 12 Hours of Your Life Being Hitler!

Okay, rant over. Sorry to spoil everyone's day.

Domejandro wrote:2K20 is $4.80 on Steam. I have heard it sucks, do I drop the five bucks?

WolfAddict wrote:

LibertyPrime wrote:

Calinks wrote:I finished Last of Us 2. Got to say, for me the game did start to unravel a bit as it went out. I don't have many problems with a lot of the controversial story elements that take place, particularly the time issues that really pissed people off, but I do think the game dragged in places, was too long and could have been tighter. That said, I do appreciate most of the ballsy moves they took. Much of this was masterful but again, I think it got kind of sloppy in areas and it comes up short.

I still really enjoyed it though and don't at all regret getting it. None of the stuff that set some people off bothered me all that much if at all. That said, I have a high tolerance level for movies and games as long as I think there is quality story/acting. I also don't have a problem with grey characters.

I.... agree and disagree with this. It was ballsy, not just in terms of violence but also in terms of narrative choices and in terms of making the player adopt new points of view. I'm not bothered by the fact that it is a violent video game; I've played dozens.

But.....

***SPOILERS AND MAJOR RANT BEGIN HERE*** Don't read unless you want to see an alleged adult reading WAY too much into a video game.

Spoiler:

TLOU2 is not a good time. It is an incredible work of art, but it is not a good time.

No narrative decision by any videogame developer has ever left as sour a taste as TLOU2's decision to put the player in the role of Joel's killer for HOURS AND HOURS on end. I HATED Abby. The game does such a masterful job of making her the villain - that is, straight up murdering Joel right after he saved her life, and doing so in the most gruesome and hateful way possible in front of his daughter (for all intents and purposes) that its belated attempts to make her likable (and boy oh boy does the game pour THAT on during Abby's story, including Abby saving an endangered child* for tear-jerking purposes) feel cheap and manipulative to me. It's like saying, "sure, Richard Ramirez WAS the Night Stalker, but here's a picture of him cuddling a puppy!"

*Oh, and about that kid - if you're trying to make your game REALISTIC, maybe don't include a child who is essentially a bad-ass ninja warrior, just so that child can be saved by Abby in the name of leveraging the cognitive dissonance the game is trying to induce.

All this happens at the same time that the game is dragging out the climactic confrontation between Elle and Abby so that we could have this unwanted detour into Abby's life. It made me feel disgusted and angry. The game's finale - where Elle KINDA saves her but then kinda doesn't but then just kinda lets her go because reasons - is just more of the emotional whiplash that characterizes the second half of this game.

In the end, Elle's trip to Seattle accomplishes little besides costing her her relationships, her fingers, and the lives of several dozen Seattle residents - many identified by name to further increase the feelings of sh****ness - AND the life of one of her dear friends, who dies suddenly horrifically (again, at the hands of Abby) and is barely referenced again.** Is the game's moral that violence is horrifying and revenge is an empty platter? Great! I guess I won't be buying the TLOU3 then, since it's a series that literally built its name on horrific violence.

**This is despite him giving his life to protect his ex-girlfirend and Elle (and then conveniently dying so they can have their own relationship).

I understand that Naughty Dog was trying to make bold strides forward with this game and shake off some of the established video game/action movie tropes. But this ignores the fact that tropes are tropes for a reason. If you saw most action movies making the feel-bad kind of choices that TLOU2 does, they wouldn't be nearly as popular as they are. There's something parasitic about hyping your game based on things people in general love and then making them feel terrible about loving them. I completely support the freedom of ND to make whatever kind of story they want; after all, I'm not a multimillion dollar games studio and clearly they must be doing something right. I just want to suggest that, making people feel bad, in the long run, isn't a great commercial strategy.

Can't wait the next game in the series, which I hear is being developed under the name The Last of Us, Part 3: Now You're Hitler! You're Just Hitler, okay? What, Are You Not WOKE Enough to Be Hitler? C'mon, Spend 12 Hours of Your Life Being Hitler!

Okay, rant over. Sorry to spoil everyone's day.

This, in my opinion, is extremely accurate... but I have to ask, you ok bro?

King Malta wrote:Copped Crusader Kings 3 on release, absolutely sensational game.

I've always liked strategy games, in particular medieval period based ones, but always found that I stuck to campaign maps and the diplomacy whilst just letting the CPU decide the battles. CK3 is basically all about the characters, the intrigue, the diplomacy and less about spending 40 minutes on large open scale battles.

Highly recommended for anybody that likes Grand Strategy and RPGs.

King Malta wrote:Copped Crusader Kings 3 on release, absolutely sensational game.

I've always liked strategy games, in particular medieval period based ones, but always found that I stuck to campaign maps and the diplomacy whilst just letting the CPU decide the battles. CK3 is basically all about the characters, the intrigue, the diplomacy and less about spending 40 minutes on large open scale battles.

Highly recommended for anybody that likes Grand Strategy and RPGs.