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The Jaylen Nowell Thread

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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#141 » by minimus » Sat Aug 3, 2019 10:59 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:I don't know all the factors true. So I comment on the factors I do know. Those factors make it look likely that Rosas has made a mistake. You won't even consider him making a mistake to be a possibility. You would gain some respect with me and maybe others if you acknowledged that possibility.


Once again, I would like to know all factors about these situation before making assumptions. You are ready to blame Rosas then to blame Nowell. I am not blaming anyone, because it is negotiation process, just a part of business. Like Tyus fans were upset about not matching MEM offer, but after this came up information about our 25/4 offer that Tyus declined and everyone felt much better.

You are Rosas' lap dog.


Now you start to attack my personality. That is not a good way to discuss things. Should you probably apologize?
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#142 » by KGdaBom » Sun Aug 4, 2019 12:23 am

Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Most likely Nowell eventually gets signed and this entire discussion is meaningless.

If he signs after ill will has been created it won't be meaningless.

The whole talk of ill will is way overblown. If it was as big a deal as you're making it, he probably wouldn't be spending time with the team in workouts.

I think there is already a little ill will, but hopefully nothing he can't get over and forget about.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#143 » by KGdaBom » Sun Aug 4, 2019 12:25 am

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
Once again, I would like to know all factors about these situation before making assumptions. You are ready to blame Rosas then to blame Nowell. I am not blaming anyone, because it is negotiation process, just a part of business. Like Tyus fans were upset about not matching MEM offer, but after this came up information about our 25/4 offer that Tyus declined and everyone felt much better.

You are Rosas' lap dog.


Now you start to attack my personality. That is not a good way to discuss things. Should you probably apologize?

I think it's a fair assessment of all your stances. I don't think it's personal, but if you do I am sorry for the offense.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#144 » by old school 34 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 12:41 am

Jedzz wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Most likely Nowell eventually gets signed and this entire discussion is meaningless.


Aren't all the discussions meaningless? We could also say that if no one ever said anything about him, and coupled with the lowball offer they gave him, that it might be likely he goes straight to Iowa and is never heard from again. Because that's the easy thing to do when you have a Maxed underachiever wanting to play SG, a FRP SG that you want to give minutes to, and a high character second year workhorse defending SG to find minutes for. It would be too easy to quietly sweep him into an out of sight out of mind development system.

Only, this team won only 34 games again and finished 5th in Northwest for the 8th season out of the last 10 seasons. They owe it to everyone involved, including the player they drafted, to see if he can help the shooting woes here already and become an early asset they maybe didn't expect. It's a good problem to have if he is.
I get you wanting to make a point that he should be evaluated because of his potential shooting #'s & can agree to that point. But I think after he officially signs (whenever that happens)....if he does get sent to IA....very likely because of the wings you mention...it doesn't mean that he's been forgotten &/or being ignored or developed. Rosas was very instrumental with Hou's G-league team and developed a ton of players for them.

Like you said that would be a good problem to have & we can develop him down there... while determining which of the other wings we want to move on from &/or improve their trade stock....

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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#145 » by minimus » Sun Aug 4, 2019 5:43 am

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:You are Rosas' lap dog.


Now you start to attack my personality. That is not a good way to discuss things. Should you probably apologize?

I think it's a fair assessment of all your stances. I don't think it's personal, but if you do I am sorry for the offense.


JFYI Any dog comparisons sound offensive in Russian and usually lead to blood.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#146 » by KGdaBom » Sun Aug 4, 2019 1:46 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
Now you start to attack my personality. That is not a good way to discuss things. Should you probably apologize?

I think it's a fair assessment of all your stances. I don't think it's personal, but if you do I am sorry for the offense.


JFYI Any dog comparisons sound offensive in Russian and usually lead to blood.

In case you're unfamiliar with the term here is the definition.

a person or organization which is influenced or controlled by another.
"the government and its media lapdogs"
No intention of calling you an actual dog or placing you on the level of a dog.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#147 » by minimus » Sun Aug 4, 2019 1:57 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:I think it's a fair assessment of all your stances. I don't think it's personal, but if you do I am sorry for the offense.


JFYI Any dog comparisons sound offensive in Russian and usually lead to blood.

In case you're unfamiliar with the term here is the definition.

a person or organization which is influenced or controlled by another.
"the government and its media lapdogs"
No intention of calling you an actual dog or placing you on the level of a dog.


I am aware of this term. And I am sure that you didn't want to offend me. Just in case that you not familiar with russian meaning, and you meet another Russian guy don't use such comparison.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#148 » by Killboard » Sun Aug 4, 2019 3:05 pm

old school 34 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
It is one way to negotiate deals. Did HOU low ball Capella? He was/is an important part of their roster. They needed him badly, but they negotiated that deal. As result he is on team friendly deal now. Bad rep Morey now? I don't think so.

I'm not saying the team should never try to get the players on team friendly contracts. I'm suggesting that lowballing rookies where every player can see what you offered compared to all the other teams in the same area did is probably not in the teams best interest overall.
I think that's being overstated some or at least is very defensible....it's not like if he signed the 1+3...others behind Nowell had gotten more...there has to be a line @ some point & Nowell wants that to start @ 44 instead of 43...so it's fair that it gets negotiated more so than others perhaps.

My question is...we're offering 1+3 & Nowell wants 2+1 reportedly....which makes 2+2 just too easy of a compromise for both sides to end this thing.....makes me wonder that maybe the real hold up....isn't about that as much as maybe Nowell's asking for more than minimum as well (like a select few others have gotten)? That's where I could see Rosas having a lot harder line in the sand (cause the roster spot @ the minimum whether guaranteed or not doesn't create any real significant flexibility)?

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Yeah, the 2+2 is a no brainer, for which is has to be total money difference among the parts, or total guaranteed money. I think that if Rosas offered a 2+2 he isn't really low balling anyone, just getting potential value of a mid 2nd round pick.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#149 » by Jedzz » Sun Aug 4, 2019 8:32 pm

old school 34 wrote:I get you wanting to make a point that he should be evaluated because of his potential shooting #'s & can agree to that point. But I think after he officially signs (whenever that happens)....if he does get sent to IA....very likely because of the wings you mention...it doesn't mean that he's been forgotten &/or being ignored or developed. Rosas was very instrumental with Hou's G-league team and developed a ton of players for them.

Like you said that would be a good problem to have & we can develop him down there... while determining which of the other wings we want to move on from &/or improve their trade stock....

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Ok you bring up other items such as improving trade stock in other players. Frankly I don't care about that as much. The trade stock of everyone goes up a little if the team is winning a lot more. It drops for everyone if the team is a loser. Benched or playng. I hope Rosas can utilize Iowa more and it seems less like a place to end your Timberwolves career and more like an extension of our main team's roster as he moves players in and out and uses them at times. Until that's proven...

So there have been mixed rumors about the defensive movement the signed additions were a part of. Let's compare the last two seasons quick.

IN 17/18 Wolves attempted six less 3s per game than in 2018/19, scoring 6 less points per game from 3s than 18/19.
In 17/18 Wolves attempted five less FTs per game than in 2018/19, scoring 1.5 less points per game from FTs than 18/19.
In 17/18 Wolves gained 2.5 more pts per game from 2pt shots than in 18/19.
In 17/18 Wolves ranked 1st in points scored from 2pt shots (65.6), in 18/19 they ranked 5th (63.1)
The 17/18 Wolves' offensive efficiency per game was ranked 4th, while in 18/19 it was ranked 14th.
The 17/18 Wolves' defensive efficiency per game was ranked 27th, while in 18/19 it was ranked 23rd.
The 17/18 Wolves' rank for opponents shooting efficiency per game was 29th, while the 18/19 team was 23rd!
The 17/18 Wolves' turnover per possession and rank was identical to 18/19.
The 17/18 Wolves' blocks per game were ranked 25th(4.1), in 18/19 they were ranked 17th (5)

Yet the record in 2017/18 was 11 wins better. How can this be when the Wolves in 18/19 improved on 3pt attempts and scores from 3, and improved on defensive efficiency enough to leap up in rank? The answer is, 17/18 won with better offensive efficiency.

That's not to say that improving on the 23rd ranked defensive efficiency can't also help now. But the numbers and rank improvements from the two seasons show that it won't add more wins like higher offensive efficiency can.

So watching your new POBO tripling down on defensive additions with weaker shot history and preparing to stash a new player with impressive shooting numbers into development Iowa concerns me a bit. Yes it does.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#150 » by Killboard » Mon Aug 5, 2019 2:20 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Yet the record in 2017/18 was 11 wins better. How can this be when the Wolves in 18/19 improved on 3pt attempts and scores from 3, and improved on defensive efficiency enough to leap up in rank? The answer is, 17/18 won with better offensive efficiency.

That's not to say that improving on the 23rd ranked defensive efficiency can't also help now. But the numbers and rank improvements from the two seasons show that it won't add more wins like higher offensive efficiency can.

So watching your new POBO tripling down on defensive additions with weaker shot history and preparing to stash a new player with impressive shooting numbers into development Iowa concerns me a bit. Yes it does.


Well I think KAT was underused on offense that season, relied on ISO too much and didn't have enough ball movement to exploit Towns gravity, which was the main reason why we were not even close in the playoffs.

I think that improvement must be at both sides but since we have a generational offensive talent is understandable to bring defense first guys to change the culture around him. Defense is also underpaid which helps with financial shortcomings we are at.

We all know KAT is an efficient post player and can score 20 points per game without plays being called for him. Now we have to realize how many shots he can build for others and himself while staying at above average league efficiency.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#151 » by Dewey » Mon Aug 5, 2019 2:32 pm

I like doubling down , tripling down, quadroupling down on defense. For once in years we "may" actually have some players with defensive accountability and hopefully a coaching staff who will hold that line - We'll wait and see.

I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy about our offense, specifically, scoring depth up and down the roster. Ryan will have to engrain the ball movement, because I still don't see anyone on the roster headed to the all-star ballot outside of KAT and that's ok for now. Defense will need to be our saving grace if we expect to be playoff competitive. Nothing I hate worse is players who will fight and impact defensively, but never come off the bench because he is not a scorer ... meanwhile ... the starter/scorer went 5-16, plays lethargic defense, and signs a max deal. This people is what needs to change within this franchise if they ever expect to imrpve the culture.

Few people can interpret stats/analytics and use the information correctly, but early on, this team simply needs to show grit. I'm really curious who will emerge as floor leaders because it is WIDE open.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#152 » by KGdaBom » Mon Aug 5, 2019 3:24 pm

Dewey wrote:I like doubling down , tripling down, quadroupling down on defense. For once in years we "may" actually have some players with defensive accountability and hopefully a coaching staff who will hold that line - We'll wait and see.

I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy about our offense, specifically, scoring depth up and down the roster. Ryan will have to engrain the ball movement, because I still don't see anyone on the roster headed to the all-star ballot outside of KAT and that's ok for now. Defense will need to be our saving grace if we expect to be playoff competitive. Nothing I hate worse is players who will fight and impact defensively, but never come off the bench because he is not a scorer ... meanwhile ... the starter/scorer went 5-16, plays lethargic defense, and signs a max deal. This people is what needs to change within this franchise if they ever expect to imrpve the culture.

Few people can interpret stats/analytics and use the information correctly, but early on, this team simply needs to show grit. I'm really curious who will emerge as floor leaders because it is WIDE open.

CULVER, Teague, Wiggins in that order.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#153 » by Jedzz » Tue Aug 6, 2019 12:23 am

Dewey wrote:I like doubling down , tripling down, quadroupling down on defense.


Mike Tice? Is that you? Must be a Viking fan. I disagree. Building well rounded players that do both I feel it the most important and any players that can/will do both should be elevated rather quickly. This isn't football where you are signed to play either defense or offense. But mainly, I showed how better offensive efficiency, at least as compared in stats/ranks in this league go, meant a lot more to wins for this team than any defensive improvement did. Dropping in offensive efficiency seems to have completely canceled out some of the defensive improvements we were already seeing last season.

I didn't miss your statement about how not everyone can interpret stats. That was nice of you. Likewise, I suppose not everyone can follow the truth even when things are spelled out for them. Maybe I need more pictures. Try to imagine a giant D fitting into a hoop. Nope, that won't help us score more efficiently.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#154 » by Jedzz » Tue Aug 6, 2019 12:26 am

KGdaBom wrote:CULVER, Teague, Wiggins in that order.


Well great. Because as far as this inks shows, those are three of the listed starters.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Minnesota_Timberwolves/17/Rosters/Regular

Note how there is no Nowell listed on roster anywhere on that page. Then we can see the team, or whoever made the page, already shoehorning RoCo into PF role, and the SF Layman into a depth PF role. What a waste.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#155 » by Jedzz » Tue Aug 6, 2019 12:40 am

Killboard wrote:
Well I think KAT was underused on offense that season, relied on ISO too much and didn't have enough ball movement to exploit Towns gravity, which was the main reason why we were not even close in the playoffs.

I think that improvement must be at both sides but since we have a generational offensive talent is understandable to bring defense first guys to change the culture around him. Defense is also underpaid which helps with financial shortcomings we are at.

We all know KAT is an efficient post player and can score 20 points per game without plays being called for him. Now we have to realize how many shots he can build for others and himself while staying at above average league efficiency.


I think I agree to most of that. But not sure about the first sentence though. If you were saying in 17/18 there was too much ISO then, well, whatever it was it ended up a lot more efficient than whatever we were doing last season. I thought it was fairly boring because it was always Teague slowly waiting for an opening to pass or drive himself in. By the time the pass got out there was really only time for one shot or dribble drive for whoever got it. No time for ball movement. Nobody really cutting. But it turns out it was much more efficient than whatever we saw last season. Could have just been the players and how well they finished at the net in 17/18 vs some pretty horrific shooting stretches last season from many.

I wonder how efficient or not the KAT focused offense was that we saw from January on last year where he was beasting for 25-40 every game. I mean did it leave a lot of room for others to get involved enough? Like you said, how can he build shots for others at the same time. Or was it great for everyone at that time. I haven't gone through just that stretch alone.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#156 » by KGdaBom » Tue Aug 6, 2019 1:58 am

Jedzz wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:CULVER, Teague, Wiggins in that order.


Well great. Because as far as this inks shows, those are three of the listed starters.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Minnesota_Timberwolves/17/Rosters/Regular

Note how there is no Nowell listed on roster anywhere on that page. Then we can see the team, or whoever made the page, already shoehorning RoCo into PF role, and the SF Layman into a depth PF role. What a waste.

Culver and Teague will be the primary ball handlers. Wiggins will have some playmaking forced on him. Sorry about Nowell. I think we will sign him, but it has dragged out long enough that's debatable.
As for Graham being the backup SF in that link that is laughable. Okogie, Wiggins, Layman and Culver will take about 99% of the SG/SF minutes.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#157 » by Jedzz » Tue Aug 6, 2019 4:29 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:CULVER, Teague, Wiggins in that order.


Well great. Because as far as this inks shows, those are three of the listed starters.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Minnesota_Timberwolves/17/Rosters/Regular

Note how there is no Nowell listed on roster anywhere on that page. Then we can see the team, or whoever made the page, already shoehorning RoCo into PF role, and the SF Layman into a depth PF role. What a waste.

Culver and Teague will be the primary ball handlers. Wiggins will have some playmaking forced on him. Sorry about Nowell. I think we will sign him, but it has dragged out long enough that's debatable.
As for Graham being the backup SF in that link that is laughable. Okogie, Wiggins, Layman and Culver will take about 99% of the SG/SF minutes.


I was surprised to see Graham listed there as well. I'm surprised to see Layman listed where he is. I have no idea what the rotations on this team are going to actually be like at this point. I'm pretty sure they have no clue either right now. What's layman going to get, 5 mins? Probably nothing but DNPs while we watch Wiggins get forced plays as usual like you said. Sometimes I wish Glen had sold this team out of this market years back. The Nowell thing is just sad but classic Wolves.

I think I'll hang up on the Wolves for a while. None of this garbage interests me at this point. I'm sure the cheerleaders will be happy about that. I'll let them have their August/September cheer sessions in peace. Might have to get my basketball fix from following wiser teams unless by November I'm hearing this Rosas experiment is going right or something. Until then, have a good finish to your summer KGdaBom. I've appreciated that you gave up the team cheerleader job for the past week. There is enough of those people around.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#158 » by Crazy-Canuck » Tue Aug 6, 2019 2:34 pm

A deal is done.

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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#159 » by KGdaBom » Tue Aug 6, 2019 3:41 pm

Jedzz wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
Well great. Because as far as this inks shows, those are three of the listed starters.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Minnesota_Timberwolves/17/Rosters/Regular

Note how there is no Nowell listed on roster anywhere on that page. Then we can see the team, or whoever made the page, already shoehorning RoCo into PF role, and the SF Layman into a depth PF role. What a waste.

Culver and Teague will be the primary ball handlers. Wiggins will have some playmaking forced on him. Sorry about Nowell. I think we will sign him, but it has dragged out long enough that's debatable.
As for Graham being the backup SF in that link that is laughable. Okogie, Wiggins, Layman and Culver will take about 99% of the SG/SF minutes.


I was surprised to see Graham listed there as well. I'm surprised to see Layman listed where he is. I have no idea what the rotations on this team are going to actually be like at this point. I'm pretty sure they have no clue either right now. What's layman going to get, 5 mins? Probably nothing but DNPs while we watch Wiggins get forced plays as usual like you said. Sometimes I wish Glen had sold this team out of this market years back. The Nowell thing is just sad but classic Wolves.

I think I'll hang up on the Wolves for a while. None of this garbage interests me at this point. I'm sure the cheerleaders will be happy about that. I'll let them have their August/September cheer sessions in peace. Might have to get my basketball fix from following wiser teams unless by November I'm hearing this Rosas experiment is going right or something. Until then, have a good finish to your summer KGdaBom. I've appreciated that you gave up the team cheerleader job for the past week. There is enough of those people around.

I remain very positive about the Wolves, but no I'm not a mindless cheerleader. I'm hopeful that the moves Rosas is making work out and I do think we got some amazing signings for some real good value. IMO Vonleh and Bell at near minimum and Napier at his contract are exceptional. I see Layman as brimming with potential. Kind of like Simons and all it took was a trade of a player we have zero plans for and a $3 million a year contract. On the other hand I'm quite critical of retaining Saunders and low balling Nowell. With good health this year we can shock the basketball world and make the playoffs.
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Re: The Jaylen Nowell Thread 

Post#160 » by KGdaBom » Tue Aug 6, 2019 3:45 pm

Crazy-Canuck wrote:A deal is done.

Read on Twitter

Hallelujah. It seems a compromise was struck, but despite this being a 1+3 it IMO was favorable for Nowell. That $1.4 million first year was huge for Nowell and earned the Wolves his agreement to the 3 team options. Win/Win.

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