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To those of us who took a stand for Nowell to get a fair contract IMO he did. Nowell is betting on himself with this deal, because he ends up with easily better money than a 2+2 would have got him as long as he makes the team the second year. His guaranteed year comes in at about 60% more than Reid's. If he doesn't play well enough to be retained then he loses out compared to the 2+2 is the risk. No risk no reward.

Crazy-Canuck wrote:A deal is done.

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That's a pretty big jump up, if true. $1.4 million is essentially the minimum for a second-year player and about $500k above the rookie minimum.

For comparison, this is the money Bruno Fernando, the 34th pick, is getting from Atlanta:

$1,400,000 / $1,517,981 / $1,782,621

Bruno's deal is all guaranteed, but most of the guys between them got significantly less money per year.

It's a good deal for the wolves since they are giving up 500k this season that they're unlikely to use in other things and have 3 unguaranteed years of control.

If Norwell pans out is a terrific deal and if he doesn't there are no downsides to it.

KGdaBom wrote:To those of us who took a stand for Nowell to get a fair contract IMO he did.

You make it sound like people were hoping he got an unfair deal, which isn't the case at all

Klomp wrote:

Crazy-Canuck wrote:A deal is done.

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That's a pretty big jump up, if true. $1.4 million is essentially the minimum for a second-year player and about $500k above the rookie minimum.

The extra $500K was the incentive in the offer for Nowell not to hold out for the 2nd year guarantee. If he is not cut next year he got an extra 500 K that he most likely wouldn't have if he had signed a 2+2. That's why I called it betting on himself.

Klomp wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:To those of us who took a stand for Nowell to get a fair contract IMO he did.

You make it sound like people were hoping he got an unfair deal, which isn't the case at all

I never thought that you or anybody other than possibly Minimus was hoping he would get an unfair deal. Minimus was possibly in favor of Nowell signing the same contract Reid did to save the Wolves some money. However, I wanted to give some props to those who spoke up that Nowell was originally being lowballed and calling Rosas/Wolves out on it. As of now I am hopeful that no ill will was created and Nowell will meet all of our wildest dreams for his play.

Nice signing ... I think he can be a nice fit and hope his potential/performance earn him a nice contract up the road

KGdaBom wrote:

Klomp wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:To those of us who took a stand for Nowell to get a fair contract IMO he did.

You make it sound like people were hoping he got an unfair deal, which isn't the case at all

I never thought that you or anybody other than possibly Minimus was hoping he would get an unfair deal. Minimus was possibly in favor of Nowell signing the same contract Reid did to save the Wolves some money. However, I wanted to give some props to those who spoke up that Nowell was originally being lowballed and calling Rosas/Wolves out on it. As of now I am hopeful that no ill will was created and Nowell will meet all of our wildest dreams for his play.

I never said anything about money and Nowell. That was not my concern. My concern was getting as much as possible years of team control in Nowell contract to get that leverage in future. Exactly what Rosas did. You blamed Rosas for making mistake, and attacked me personally. That is it.

I like these type of signings. Both Reid and Nowell could easily be 1st round picks in next years draft after a successful college season. So in essence, we're giving ourselves flexibility to move future draft picks without sacrificing the influx of talent that's crucial to team growth. If we're competing for a playoff spot towards the end of the calendar year, I could see us moving the 2020 1st rounder in order to get another rotational player in the fold. That comfort level goes up even more if the above mentioned players are showing positive signs of growth playing in the G-League. Again, smart moves that don't lock you into long-term contracts since you have the non-guaranteed clauses in years 2-4.

minimus wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

Klomp wrote:You make it sound like people were hoping he got an unfair deal, which isn't the case at all

I never thought that you or anybody other than possibly Minimus was hoping he would get an unfair deal. Minimus was possibly in favor of Nowell signing the same contract Reid did to save the Wolves some money. However, I wanted to give some props to those who spoke up that Nowell was originally being lowballed and calling Rosas/Wolves out on it. As of now I am hopeful that no ill will was created and Nowell will meet all of our wildest dreams for his play.

I never said anything about money and Nowell. That was not my concern. My concern was getting as much as possible years of team control in Nowell contract to get that leverage in future. Exactly what Rosas did. You blamed Rosas for making mistake, and attacked me personally. That is it.

Minimus, just messing with you a little. I never attacked you personally. I do believe you will blindly follow Rosas in any and every decision he makes. If I'm wrong give me an example of a decision Rosas has made you think was wrong. A 2+2 would have Kept Nowell under Wolves control for 4 years just like a 1+3. The only difference is we could not have cut him year 2 without penalty. In the end we gave him extra money this year for him to give up a guarantee for next year. It all seems to have worked out in the end.
However, one thing I find troubling in your post. Do you want the Wolves to be treating players in an adversarial manner looking for leverage on them? Maybe it would be naïve of me, but I hope their player relationships are a partnership with nobody seeking leverage on the other.

Not to go parent or Mod on anyone but:

KGdaBom wrote:Minimus, just messing with you a little. I never attacked you personally. I do believe you will blindly follow Rosas in any and every decision he makes. If I'm wrong give me an example of a decision Rosas has made you think was wrong.

Saying someone blindly follows is maybe not an attack, but can appear aggressive. Some might think it's premature a couple months in to criticize until the full picture is in place, so not disagree for disagreeing's sake doesn't necessarily imply blind faith.

KGdaBom wrote:However, one thing I find troubling in your post. Do you want the Wolves to be treating players in an adversarial manner looking for leverage on them? Maybe it would be naïve of me, but I hope their player relationships are a partnership with nobody seeking leverage on the other.

This is not just to you two, but where the whole thread wen in that people were automatically taking sides based on what they thought the situation was, rather than all we knew was Nowell hadn't signed and both sides were negotiating.

Glad he's signed and I think the deal is good for all.

KGdaBom wrote:

minimus wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:I never thought that you or anybody other than possibly Minimus was hoping he would get an unfair deal. Minimus was possibly in favor of Nowell signing the same contract Reid did to save the Wolves some money. However, I wanted to give some props to those who spoke up that Nowell was originally being lowballed and calling Rosas/Wolves out on it. As of now I am hopeful that no ill will was created and Nowell will meet all of our wildest dreams for his play.

I never said anything about money and Nowell. That was not my concern. My concern was getting as much as possible years of team control in Nowell contract to get that leverage in future. Exactly what Rosas did. You blamed Rosas for making mistake, and attacked me personally. That is it.

Minimus, just messing with you a little. I never attacked you personally. I do believe you will blindly follow Rosas in any and every decision he makes. If I'm wrong give me an example of a decision Rosas has made you think was wrong. A 2+2 would have Kept Nowell under Wolves control for 4 years just like a 1+3. The only difference is we could not have cut him year 2 without penalty. In the end we gave him extra money this year for him to give up a guarantee for next year. It all seems to have worked out in the end.
However, one thing I find troubling in your post. Do you want the Wolves to be treating players in an adversarial manner looking for leverage on them? Maybe it would be naïve of me, but I hope their player relationships are a partnership with nobody seeking leverage on the other.

Rosas job is not to be a good buddy in negotiations, like Thibs did overpaying everyone. Gerson seeks maximum leverage for TEAM, it is aggressive mentality that we saw before in HOU. 1+3 is maximum realistic leverage that we coud get in this situation.

P.S. You were overreacting in many conversations instead of simply waiting for context or additional info. You do attack me personally calling lapdog, which I find extremely offensive, you did it instead of looking at things I indicated. Now you see that I have been right, so do what you think every mature man should in such situations.

If there was any question before, this deal probably means Tyrone Wallace won't make it to training camp, unless there's some sort of trade made before then. Nowell is the 15th guaranteed contract on the books, plus Wallace being the 16th on an unguaranteed deal.

minimus wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

minimus wrote:
I never said anything about money and Nowell. That was not my concern. My concern was getting as much as possible years of team control in Nowell contract to get that leverage in future. Exactly what Rosas did. You blamed Rosas for making mistake, and attacked me personally. That is it.

Minimus, just messing with you a little. I never attacked you personally. I do believe you will blindly follow Rosas in any and every decision he makes. If I'm wrong give me an example of a decision Rosas has made you think was wrong. A 2+2 would have Kept Nowell under Wolves control for 4 years just like a 1+3. The only difference is we could not have cut him year 2 without penalty. In the end we gave him extra money this year for him to give up a guarantee for next year. It all seems to have worked out in the end.
However, one thing I find troubling in your post. Do you want the Wolves to be treating players in an adversarial manner looking for leverage on them? Maybe it would be naïve of me, but I hope their player relationships are a partnership with nobody seeking leverage on the other.

Rosas job is not to be a good buddy in negotiations, like Thibs did overpaying everyone. Gerson seeks maximum leverage for TEAM, it is aggressive mentality that we saw before in HOU. 1+3 is maximum realistic leverage that we coud get in this situation.

P.S. You were overreacting in many conversations instead of simply waiting for context or additional info. You do attack me personally calling lapdog, which I find extremely offensive, you did it instead of looking at things I indicated. Now you see that I have been right, so do what you think every mature man should in such situations.

I didn't say anything about being a buddy. I said the Wolves should be partners with their players. It is very adversarial to their players trying to get leverage on them. I see nothing you were right about in this. I believe it is obvious that you are going to support every thing that Rosas does regardless of merit.

karch34 wrote:Not to go parent or Mod on anyone but:

KGdaBom wrote:Minimus, just messing with you a little. I never attacked you personally. I do believe you will blindly follow Rosas in any and every decision he makes. If I'm wrong give me an example of a decision Rosas has made you think was wrong.

Saying someone blindly follows is maybe not an attack, but can appear aggressive. Some might think it's premature a couple months in to criticize until the full picture is in place, so not disagree for disagreeing's sake doesn't necessarily imply blind faith.

KGdaBom wrote:However, one thing I find troubling in your post. Do you want the Wolves to be treating players in an adversarial manner looking for leverage on them? Maybe it would be naïve of me, but I hope their player relationships are a partnership with nobody seeking leverage on the other.

This is not just to you two, but where the whole thread wen in that people were automatically taking sides based on what they thought the situation was, rather than all we knew was Nowell hadn't signed and both sides were negotiating.

Glad he's signed and I think the deal is good for all.

I believe what I said and invited Minimus to prove me wrong by showing even one example of something Rosas has done that he has been in the slightest critical of.
I do believe the Timberwolves/Rosas were lowballing Nowell and it took them a long time to come around with a reasonable offer. I'm totally with you that that I'm glad he's signed and the deal was reasonable. I hope we never have to exercise our option to cut him during his unguaranteed years.

karch34 wrote:Saying someone blindly follows is maybe not an attack, but can appear aggressive. Some might think it's premature a couple months in to criticize until the full picture is in place, so not disagree for disagreeing's sake doesn't necessarily imply blind faith.

Pretty sure simply believing any criticism right now is premature and defending all moves because of that I would say is exactly blind faith. Fairly reported I believe.

What happened in this thread was so pathetic. It was personal and I was surprised that Kgdabom didn't receive a warning.

Criticize without knowledge has no sense.

Battletrigger wrote:What happened in this thread was so pathetic. It was personal and I was surprised that Kgdabom didn't receive a warning.

Criticize without knowledge has no sense.

Do you think I was picking on Minimus? His rhetoric that Thibs is the devil and almost everything he did was wrong in every way (I believe Minimus did support his drafting Okogie and KBD) and Rosas is an angel of light who can do no wrong was bothersome to me. I know it's not popular to defend Thibs in any way so maybe you like what Minimus was saying. To me my disagreements with Minimus were never personal other than I admit his stances annoyed me. I was not IMO attacking the man I was attacking his stands.

A recap on Rosas performance with the Wolves of which Minimus has supported every single move he has made so far unless I'm mistaken. I like most including Minimus was thrilled with the hiring of Rosas. Then Rosas opened up the head coaching position to all qualified candidates. More thrilled. Than he made the decision to keep Saunders. We diverged paths on Rosas at that point. Minimus loved that I hated it. The coaching and front office staff hiring's after Saunders were many highly respected highly talented people. Great job Rosas.

Then If reports that Rosas was canvassing the NBA trying to find a deal to free up cap space during the meeting with Russell are true IMO he botched that and IMO it was a flat out embarrassment. Maybe the reports by Stein were not true. I can't say for sure, but IMO Rosas should have had the deal in place before the meeting. It may have been a mistake offering a max contract to Russell anyway. I'm not saying it was, but that was a decision that could certainly be criticized. During this time there are also reports that Wiggins was furious with Rosas. I'm not saying Wiggins had a right to be furious, but it's an example of alienating one of his starting players. Hopefully that was smoothed over. The signings/trades after that IMO were almost all flat out brilliant. We got talented players for IMO very good contracts.

Then we did not retain Tyus Jones. I think when it came time to match or not to match Rosas made the right call, however reports were that Tyus was requesting a 4 year 25 million contract at the start of FA that Rosas could have proactively agreed to. Instead Rosas made what would according to what Tyus eventually signed for an extremely low ball offer of about half. That was certainly a decision that could be criticized. Minimus could find no fault in that.

Then reports came out that we were lowballing both of our draft picks. Negotiating is fine, but teams should IMO be careful not to take it so far that it alienates the incoming players. Rosas pretty quickly came off the lowball offer to Culver and Culver signed a more or less expected contract. Cool. However, he continued to lowball Nowell when contracts on both sides of Nowell's were 2 year guarantees. Nowell was alienated to the point of tweeting I know it's a business … but Man...(or something like that) Nowell retracted the Tweet that IMO he shouldn't have made, but his frustration was made public. After a drawn out time period IMO and compared to most draft pick negotiations Rosas stepped up with enough year one money to get Nowell to agree to a 1+3 contract. Rosas achieved his goal of allowing the Wolves to cut Nowell without penalty in his second year if he sucks in his first. Good job Rosas with reservations regarding alienation.

Those are all the significant moves of Rosas' tenure as PoBO (or whatever his title is) of the Wolves that I can recall. Maybe he is an angel of light and every move he has made is perfect. Minimus seems to see it that way. I don't see it that way. Funny thing is one of the biggest problems with Thibs is that he alienated his players and it seems like Rosas is heading down the same path. Like most of you I'm sick and tired of my dispute with Minimus and want it to end. I'm sorry for offending Minimus and grant him the last word regarding our dispute or whatever it is. I promise to not make a reply. I will reserve the right to continue to look at the moves Rosas makes critically. Giving praise where I think praise is due and questioning his IMO poor decisions.

What a gross thread....so little about Nowell's skill set and the actual contract that he signed (I still don't know what the actual deal is) and flooded with personal agendas that should be done on private PM's because they add NOTHING to the quality of this site. It's time to clean this up IMO.