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Plan B, C and D

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Plan B, C and D 

Post#1 » by minimus » Sun Jul 7, 2019 3:02 pm

Hi all,
now after Russell situation and Kawhi decision I realised that we are not afraid of inventing complex trade and we are able to execute them. Now lets try to give some scenarios for this team in near 2-3 yrs. The criterion is simple - "maximise KAT window", i.e. we need a second star that fit well with KAT, both skill wise and chemistry wise. I think next summer we will have a chance to aggressively execute a big deal including our young players, Dieng contract and picks. Teams will not have much cap space to operate. Here is the list of potential trade targets:

Tier one "my bros". Players who have connections with KAT. Absolutely top priority because of age, long contract and chemistry.

Option 1. DLo Russell. GSW must decide between Klay, Curry, Dray Green max contracts. I think Klay will lose lateral quickness and become less efficient defensive player, which makes Curry-Russell-Klay trio very difficult to co-exist. One of them has to go. I assume that it will be Russell. The best option chemistry wise, because he is an elite scorer and can handle the ball. Our chances to get him: >75%.

Option 2. Devin Booker. After PG13 forced his way out of OKC, I expect other players at least to try do the same. The price would be pretty high. Fit really well next to KAT, although defense leaves a lot to be desired. The second best option chemistry wise, because he is an elite shooter and can handle the ball. Our chances to get him: <25%, because of PHO asking price.

Tier two "rising stars". Players who can get first big contract.

Option 1-2. Jason Tatum, Jaylen Brown. BOS already have Kemba, Hayward max contracts. With high probability they will let one of Tatum/Brown duo go. Both have regressed this year and clearly must prove whether they worth max contracts. I would probably try to low ball them with 100/4 type of deals, but it won't happen. For that money they fit well as 2nd option in offense, but need a strong ball handler to get the ball. Our chances to get one of them: <25%, because of Ainge who seems to overrate them.

Option 3. Brandon Ingram. Between Ingram and Lonzo Ball NOP will go for Ingram, unless that disease is similar to Bosh. He fits well as 2nd option in offense, but needs a strong ball handler to get the ball. Our chances to get him: <10%, because NOP will have money.

Option 4. Kyle Kuzma. Combo forward. He fits well as 2nd option in offense, but needs a strong ball handler to get the ball. Our chances to get him: <10%, because LAL will compete for title and match any offer.

Tier three "established stars who can leverage trades". Players who can leave after next season, hence can request a trade. We should consider such trades if we think that our core is good enough to get deep in playoff and compete.

Option 1 Bradley Beal. The third best option chemistry wise, because he is an elite shooter and can handle the ball. The fact that WAS are not listening offers for him now makes me believe that they are not that smart. Our chances to get him: <50%, depending on price.

Option 2 Jrue Holiday. I have many concerns about Zion, It might happen that NOP will need to reset again next year and they will listen offers for Jrue, replacing him with Lonzo. The forth best option chemistry wise, because he is an elite defender, above average scorer and can handle the ball. Our chances to get him: <25%, depending on Zion development.

To sum up. I truly believe that we need to trade Wiggins now, maintain financial flexibility to be able to operate next summer, when only NYK might be able to outbid everyone.

Thoughts?
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#2 » by KGdaBom » Sun Jul 7, 2019 4:31 pm

Russell is NOT an elite shooter.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#3 » by minimus » Sun Jul 7, 2019 4:45 pm

KGdaBom wrote:Russell is NOT an elite shooter.


Yes, he is. From Harden, Irving, Russel and Devin Booker the highest and who has lowest 3pt% (in regular season)? Actually it does not matter because all of them very high usage scorer who are able to create for themselves and others. Which is our biggest need.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#4 » by KGdaBom » Sun Jul 7, 2019 4:51 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Russell is NOT an elite shooter.


Yes, he is. From Harden, Irving, Russel and Devin Booker the highest and who has lowest 3pt% (in regular season)? Actually it does not matter because all of them very high usage scorer who are able to create for themselves and others. Which is our biggest need.

Scorer. Not shooter. If Russell is an elite shooter than so is Covington, but neither are.
50/40/90 guys are elite shooters.
Russell is 43/37/78 his BEST year and 42/35/76 for his career.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#5 » by minimus » Sun Jul 7, 2019 5:06 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Russell is NOT an elite shooter.


Yes, he is. From Harden, Irving, Russel and Devin Booker the highest and who has lowest 3pt% (in regular season)? Actually it does not matter because all of them very high usage scorer who are able to create for themselves and others. Which is our biggest need.

Scorer. Not shooter. If Russell is an elite shooter than so is Covington, but neither are.
50/40/90 guys are elite shooters.
Russell is 43/37/78 his BEST year and 42/35/76 for his career.


Okay, so what is your point regarding this topic?
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#6 » by KGdaBom » Sun Jul 7, 2019 5:42 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
Yes, he is. From Harden, Irving, Russel and Devin Booker the highest and who has lowest 3pt% (in regular season)? Actually it does not matter because all of them very high usage scorer who are able to create for themselves and others. Which is our biggest need.

Scorer. Not shooter. If Russell is an elite shooter than so is Covington, but neither are.
50/40/90 guys are elite shooters.
Russell is 43/37/78 his BEST year and 42/35/76 for his career.


Okay, so what is your point regarding this topic?

My point is you referred to DLo as an elite shooter.
"The best option chemistry wise, because he is an elite scorer and can handle the ball."
That simply isn't true. He's not even an elite scorer. He's a good scorer at 21.1 last year.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#7 » by TheDominator273 » Sun Jul 7, 2019 5:47 pm

Honestly I'd inquire with the Bulls as to the cost of bringing LaVine back. If Culver's ball handling and playmaking is as advertised than you can play Culver/LaVine together at the 1/2. Not sure how attached the Bulls are at this point but I would offer Teague/Okogie/Top 5 protected 2020 for LaVine.

The Bulls would have to think LaVine isn't part of their core and want to get off his deal while getting some value back. Teague is the matching salary, and being an expiring frees up that cap space after a single season. Okogie and the pick are the value sweeteners. Not sure the Bulls would want another offensively limited guard from us in trade following Dunn but it's tough to make the money work otherwise.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#8 » by Takingbaconback » Sun Jul 7, 2019 5:51 pm

Seems to me like the best possible scenario right now is Wiggins blows up this season. That would make guys like Okogie or Culver more expendable or Wiggins himself could be shipped out for good value. If he doesn't, my dream would be Booker, DLO, and KAT but seems very unlikely... Beal would be nice but Wolves would have to give up a lot and doesn't guarantee KAT stays either. Seeing how all these superstars are leaving small markets, I'm almost resigned that KAT is going to ask for trade out which I'm not adverse to if we get a gigantic bounty
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#9 » by minimus » Sun Jul 7, 2019 5:54 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Scorer. Not shooter. If Russell is an elite shooter than so is Covington, but neither are.
50/40/90 guys are elite shooters.
Russell is 43/37/78 his BEST year and 42/35/76 for his career.


Okay, so what is your point regarding this topic?

My point is you referred to DLo as an elite shooter.
"The best option chemistry wise, because he is an elite scorer and can handle the ball."
That simply isn't true. He's not even an elite scorer. He's a good scorer at 21.1 last year.

He is an elite scorer who was Brooklyn best option in offense by far and led them to playoffs. As usual you don't see context and prospective, because for PPG you need to understand that he played 30 minutes per game.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#10 » by Worm Guts » Sun Jul 7, 2019 5:56 pm

Russell isn’t an elite scorer, you have to consider his efficiency which was average at best.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#11 » by Jedzz » Sun Jul 7, 2019 5:56 pm

minimus wrote:To sum up. I truly believe that we need to trade Wiggins now, maintain financial flexibility to be able to operate next summer, when only NYK might be able to outbid everyone.

Thoughts?


How does that happen right now? Trading Wiggins and somehow retaining financial flexibility for next offseason? Are you thinking we trade for someone's expirings and then send them picks to do it?
These are my opinions.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#12 » by KGdaBom » Sun Jul 7, 2019 5:58 pm

Worm Guts wrote:Russell isn’t an elite scorer, you have to consider his efficiency which was average at best.

I don't think to be an elite scorer requires being efficient. You just need to be one of the top ten in the league at something IMO to be elite at it. 21.1 gets him into a tie for 24th. IMO not elite unless one has a very loose take on the term.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#13 » by minimus » Sun Jul 7, 2019 6:01 pm

Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:To sum up. I truly believe that we need to trade Wiggins now, maintain financial flexibility to be able to operate next summer, when only NYK might be able to outbid everyone.

Thoughts?


How does that happen right now? Trading Wiggins and somehow retaining financial flexibility for next offseason? Are you thinking we trade for someone's expirings and then send them picks to do it?


Yes, Wiggins for veterans on shorter deals who can accelerate young players development. Ideal scenario Wiggins, FRP for Iggy
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#14 » by Worm Guts » Sun Jul 7, 2019 6:01 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Russell isn’t an elite scorer, you have to consider his efficiency which was average at best.

I don't think to be an elite scorer requires being efficient. You just need to be one of the top ten in the league at something IMO to be elite at it. I don't think 21.1 gets him into that elite range.


Elite scorer’s should combine volume and efficiency, otherwise you’re just a chucker.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#15 » by KGdaBom » Sun Jul 7, 2019 6:03 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Russell isn’t an elite scorer, you have to consider his efficiency which was average at best.

I don't think to be an elite scorer requires being efficient. You just need to be one of the top ten in the league at something IMO to be elite at it. I don't think 21.1 gets him into that elite range.


Elite scorer’s should combine volume and efficiency, otherwise you’re just a chucker.

I accept your definition, but reserve the right to go by mine :D .
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Plan B, C and D 

Post#16 » by minimus » Sun Jul 7, 2019 6:11 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Russell isn’t an elite scorer, you have to consider his efficiency which was average at best.

I don't think to be an elite scorer requires being efficient. You just need to be one of the top ten in the league at something IMO to be elite at it. 21.1 gets him into a tie for 24th. IMO not elite unless one has a very loose take on the term.


You must be efficient enough to not let your team down when you are 1st option hence scores big number of team points and have elite skill in offense. Russell is #2 behind Kemba in PnR possessions per game. #5 in PPG in PnR. Reminder these stats in only 30 mpg, without an elite finisher as KAT, so defense won't collapse on you.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#17 » by Jedzz » Sun Jul 7, 2019 6:20 pm

minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:To sum up. I truly believe that we need to trade Wiggins now, maintain financial flexibility to be able to operate next summer, when only NYK might be able to outbid everyone.

Thoughts?


How does that happen right now? Trading Wiggins and somehow retaining financial flexibility for next offseason? Are you thinking we trade for someone's expirings and then send them picks to do it?


Yes, Wiggins for veterans on shorter deals who can accelerate young players development. Ideal scenario Wiggins, FRP for Iggy


Ok I'm good with that. Sounds like Grizz want to move Iggy. Can they handle taking WIggins back?
These are my opinions.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#18 » by minimus » Sun Jul 7, 2019 6:22 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Russell isn’t an elite scorer, you have to consider his efficiency which was average at best.

I don't think to be an elite scorer requires being efficient. You just need to be one of the top ten in the league at something IMO to be elite at it. I don't think 21.1 gets him into that elite range.


Elite scorer’s should combine volume and efficiency, otherwise you’re just a chucker.


Is James Harden an elite scorer?
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#19 » by Worm Guts » Sun Jul 7, 2019 6:34 pm

minimus wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:I don't think to be an elite scorer requires being efficient. You just need to be one of the top ten in the league at something IMO to be elite at it. I don't think 21.1 gets him into that elite range.


Elite scorer’s should combine volume and efficiency, otherwise you’re just a chucker.


Is James Harden an elite scorer?


James Harden is efficient.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#20 » by Jedzz » Sun Jul 7, 2019 6:39 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
minimus wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:
Elite scorer’s should combine volume and efficiency, otherwise you’re just a chucker.


Is James Harden an elite scorer?


James Harden is efficient.


Was Kevin Love as a Timberwolves player an efficient shooter or a chucker?
These are my opinions.

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