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Plan B, C and D

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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#41 » by Jedzz » Mon Jul 8, 2019 2:09 am

KGdaBom wrote:
shrink wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:I don't think to be an elite scorer requires being efficient. You just need to be one of the top ten in the league at something IMO to be elite at it. 21.1 gets him into a tie for 24th. IMO not elite unless one has a very loose take on the term.

Andrew Wiggins was 11th in scoring two years ago with 1933 points. Is he an elite scorer?

Was he top 10 that season? If so that season he was an elite scorer, but a very inefficient one. Now he's certainly not an elite scorer.

Well he can't be top ten if it was stated he was 11th.

fascinating nonetheless

This year Harden scored 2800+ pts and was #1.
Paul George was #2 with nearly 600+ less pts. 48/38/84

Paul George went from a 20th ranked scorer (1775) w/Pacers to #15 with OKC first yr, and then #2 second year (2159).
Meanwhile Westbrook went from #1(2500+) the last yr without PG, to 4th(2000+) first yr, and then to #18 (1675) this last yr.

Was Westbrook "falling off" because of age already? Or was he working around PG and helping to elevate PG? I don't know. Your thoughts?

James Harden is almost 50 days shy of 30 yrs old. In his 29th+ year of age he jumped his Points total over 600 pts. Why? Because his teamates were all getting injured and he needed to. So he not only had the opportunity for more shots, but they also needed him to. He went for 52/36/87, which really showed no drop at all in his averages irregardless the massive increase in attempts. +3.2 on threes, +1.2 on twos, and +1 on FTAs.

Westbrooks attempts dropped pretty hard when PG showed up. -3.1 on 3PAs, -2.3 on 2PAs this last yr, -1 to -4.2 FTAs since PG add.

I think what the "scoring" numbers and attempts are showing each year for these players is that it does matter who they are playing with, or not playing with, at a specific time. I'm fairly certain the same can be true for WIggins.

One difference with Wiggins and these scorers are that they have already reached actual Elite top 10 levels at some point or year. Wiggins has yet to really climb that mountain. This is what everyone already knew. They also know he's still only 24. If by some miracle Wiggins is still playing ball 6 years from now, it's possible he could be dropping 2200-2500 pt seasons. He's just not right now with those that have been around him and at his current experience level. It would be nice to have more patience if the owner didn't slap a Max on him so prematurely.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#42 » by Jedzz » Mon Jul 8, 2019 2:18 am

Just noticed Lakers grabbed Danny Green. Whatever. He was #2 last year on 3P% at over .450. Was hoping Wolves could grab him if they could deal with Toronto on Wiggins.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#43 » by theGreatRC » Mon Jul 8, 2019 2:21 am

Plan B should try to get Dragic for Teague..need some new blood there and they're both expirings. Teague & Jimbo are boys so maybe it'll happen.

Plan C would be to wait and roll with Teague & a re-signed Tyus and see if we can get DLO again in December, which if you think about it, isn't too far away.

Plan D is do nothing at all and see what happens next year.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#44 » by Klomp » Mon Jul 8, 2019 2:26 am

theGreatRC wrote:Plan B should try to get Dragic for Teague..need some new blood there and they're both expirings. Teague & Jimbo are boys so maybe it'll happen.

Plan C would be to wait and roll with Teague & a re-signed Tyus and see if we can get DLO again in December, which if you think about it, isn't too far away.

Plan D is do nothing at all and see what happens next year.

I'm sitting with C as the most likely
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Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#45 » by minimus » Mon Jul 8, 2019 5:42 am

_AIJ_ wrote:
minimus wrote:Another thing that makes me think about trading Wiggins is that with Kawhi and PG13 coming to very good managed LAC organisation, they kind of are the last puzzle of power map in West.

UTA: Gobert-Mitchell-Conley
HOU: Cappella-Harden-CP3
LAC: Kawhi-PG13-Lou Williams
POR: Whiteside-McCullom-Dame
LAL: AD-LeBron-Cousins
DAL: Porzingis-Doncic
DEN: Jokic-Murray-Millsap
GSW: Curry-Dray-Russell (Klay)

Thats 8 teams who have advantage in experience, talent and coaching. We have KAT and Wiggins, no starting caliber PG, no quality PF, we expect improvements from Culver (rookie), Okogie, KBD (2nd yr players). More I am thinking about it, more I am concerned.

Im sorry but i chuckled when you put KP and and Doncic. They havent proven anything yet.


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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#46 » by SaintS » Mon Jul 8, 2019 8:38 am

minimus wrote:Another thing that makes me think about trading Wiggins is that with Kawhi and PG13 coming to very good managed LAC organisation, they kind of are the last puzzle of power map in West.

UTA: Gobert-Mitchell-Conley
HOU: Cappella-Harden-CP3
LAC: Kawhi-PG13-Lou Williams
POR: Whiteside-McCullom-Dame
LAL: AD-LeBron-Cousins
DAL: Porzingis-Doncic
DEN: Jokic-Murray-Millsap
GSW: Curry-Dray-Russell (Klay)

Thats 8 teams who have advantage in experience, talent and coaching. We have KAT and Wiggins, no starting caliber PG, no quality PF, we expect improvements from Culver (rookie), Okogie, KBD (2nd yr players). More I am thinking about it, more I am concerned.

Whiteside as a power is nice :D

but in general i totaly agree with you
I see that west conference closed at least for 2 years and Twolves don't have a chance even to fight for PO.

In this situation we have to maximize development of our current players and keep assets to jump for the star.
About your options
Option 2. Devin Booker.
It will be a best addittion for Twolves, but i think it's an unreal till 2021-22 or 22-23.

Option 1 Bradley Beal
agree that's a great fit for us. And the prio 1 for pur managment.

Unfortunatelly Was fired Grunfeld with him they can make a really dump trade.
I think because of that move in from office thay didn't shop Beal agressive, Was as a Twolves need to understand what they finally have after off season and then make next steps.

Tier two "rising stars".
i don;t like any of this guys in the category :noway:
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#47 » by minimus » Mon Jul 8, 2019 8:56 am

SaintS wrote:
minimus wrote:Another thing that makes me think about trading Wiggins is that with Kawhi and PG13 coming to very good managed LAC organisation, they kind of are the last puzzle of power map in West.

UTA: Gobert-Mitchell-Conley
HOU: Cappella-Harden-CP3
LAC: Kawhi-PG13-Lou Williams
POR: Whiteside-McCullom-Dame
LAL: AD-LeBron-Cousins
DAL: Porzingis-Doncic
DEN: Jokic-Murray-Millsap
GSW: Curry-Dray-Russell (Klay)

Thats 8 teams who have advantage in experience, talent and coaching. We have KAT and Wiggins, no starting caliber PG, no quality PF, we expect improvements from Culver (rookie), Okogie, KBD (2nd yr players). More I am thinking about it, more I am concerned.

Whiteside as a power is nice :D


POR will need him for 3/4 of regular season till the moment when Nurkic is 100% healthy. Nurkic -McCullom-Dame tiro was really good last season before Nurkic was injuired.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#48 » by SaintS » Mon Jul 8, 2019 9:00 am

minimus wrote:
SaintS wrote:
minimus wrote:Another thing that makes me think about trading Wiggins is that with Kawhi and PG13 coming to very good managed LAC organisation, they kind of are the last puzzle of power map in West.

UTA: Gobert-Mitchell-Conley
HOU: Cappella-Harden-CP3
LAC: Kawhi-PG13-Lou Williams
POR: Whiteside-McCullom-Dame
LAL: AD-LeBron-Cousins
DAL: Porzingis-Doncic
DEN: Jokic-Murray-Millsap
GSW: Curry-Dray-Russell (Klay)

Thats 8 teams who have advantage in experience, talent and coaching. We have KAT and Wiggins, no starting caliber PG, no quality PF, we expect improvements from Culver (rookie), Okogie, KBD (2nd yr players). More I am thinking about it, more I am concerned.

Whiteside as a power is nice :D


POR will need him for 3/4 of regular season till the moment when Nurkic is 100% healthy. Nurkic -McCullom-Dame tiro was really good last season before Nurkic was injuired.

Zach Collins time
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#49 » by minimus » Mon Jul 8, 2019 9:10 am

SaintS wrote:
minimus wrote:
SaintS wrote:Whiteside as a power is nice :D


POR will need him for 3/4 of regular season till the moment when Nurkic is 100% healthy. Nurkic -McCullom-Dame tiro was really good last season before Nurkic was injuired.

Zach Collins time


IMO Zach is not physical enough to play in one bigman lineup. Nurkic, Kanter set good screens for Dame and CJ and rolled hard to the basket. This is not much Zach game.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#50 » by minimus » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:36 am

minimus wrote:Hi all,
now after Russell situation and Kawhi decision I realised that we are not afraid of inventing complex trade and we are able to execute them. Now lets try to give some scenarios for this team in near 2-3 yrs. The criterion is simple - "maximise KAT window", i.e. we need a second star that fit well with KAT, both skill wise and chemistry wise. I think next summer we will have a chance to aggressively execute a big deal including our young players, Dieng contract and picks. Teams will not have much cap space to operate. Here is the list of potential trade targets:

Tier one "my bros". Players who have connections with KAT. Absolutely top priority because of age, long contract and chemistry.

Option 1. DLo Russell. GSW must decide between Klay, Curry, Dray Green max contracts. I think Klay will lose lateral quickness and become less efficient defensive player, which makes Curry-Russell-Klay trio very difficult to co-exist. One of them has to go. I assume that it will be Russell. The best option chemistry wise, because he is an elite scorer and can handle the ball. Our chances to get him: >75%.

Option 2. Devin Booker. After PG13 forced his way out of OKC, I expect other players at least to try do the same. The price would be pretty high. Fit really well next to KAT, although defense leaves a lot to be desired. The second best option chemistry wise, because he is an elite shooter and can handle the ball. Our chances to get him: <25%, because of PHO asking price.

Tier two "rising stars". Players who can get first big contract.

Option 1-2. Jason Tatum, Jaylen Brown. BOS already have Kemba, Hayward max contracts. With high probability they will let one of Tatum/Brown duo go. Both have regressed this year and clearly must prove whether they worth max contracts. I would probably try to low ball them with 100/4 type of deals, but it won't happen. For that money they fit well as 2nd option in offense, but need a strong ball handler to get the ball. Our chances to get one of them: <25%, because of Ainge who seems to overrate them.

Option 3. Brandon Ingram. Between Ingram and Lonzo Ball NOP will go for Ingram, unless that disease is similar to Bosh. He fits well as 2nd option in offense, but needs a strong ball handler to get the ball. Our chances to get him: <10%, because NOP will have money.

Option 4. Kyle Kuzma. Combo forward. He fits well as 2nd option in offense, but needs a strong ball handler to get the ball. Our chances to get him: <10%, because LAL will compete for title and match any offer.

Tier three "established stars who can leverage trades". Players who can leave after next season, hence can request a trade. We should consider such trades if we think that our core is good enough to get deep in playoff and compete.

Option 1 Bradley Beal. The third best option chemistry wise, because he is an elite shooter and can handle the ball. The fact that WAS are not listening offers for him now makes me believe that they are not that smart. Our chances to get him: <50%, depending on price.

Option 2 Jrue Holiday. I have many concerns about Zion, It might happen that NOP will need to reset again next year and they will listen offers for Jrue, replacing him with Lonzo. The forth best option chemistry wise, because he is an elite defender, above average scorer and can handle the ball. Our chances to get him: <25%, depending on Zion development.

To sum up. I truly believe that we need to trade Wiggins now, maintain financial flexibility to be able to operate next summer, when only NYK might be able to outbid everyone.

Thoughts?


Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:I think the main concern should be Booker defense as he is close to awfull defender right now. Maybe we can mitigate this, and he can follow СJ McCollum/Dame/Harden/Beal path and be at least average defender.


Or, the Wolves could stop adding players that stink at or won't play defense. Certainly stop maxing players like this.


Speaking of defensive minded players. I recently was thinking about two of them: Jrue Holiday and Jaylen Brown.

Holiday is an ideal fit here, he can defend, handle the ball and score. If Zion fail then there will be a bidding war to get him, but I'm sure that Rosas will try to get him. Another thing is that Jrue could co-exist with Wiggins. I dont believe that NO should be considered a better place than MIN for All Star player.

Jaylen Brown is another player that looks very promising, he had an excellent shooting season in 2017-2018, hitting 3s with 39,5% but these numbers seem to be a fluke. However is a promising 3&D material, can defend 1-4. He should not get max player contract, and BOS wont re-sign him to play behind Tatum and Hayward, so we will have a chance to sign-trade for him. Ainge loves draft picks so we can give him some. KAT-Brown-RoCo-Culver would be a strong smallball unit.

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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#51 » by Jedzz » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:51 am

Whatever it takes so the Timberwolves stop making money for players like Hayward, by handing them their season and career high points days over and over.
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Re: Plan B, C and D 

Post#52 » by minimus » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:12 pm

Other than Jaylen Brown who do you think might be have a good chance to improve in better situation (more minutes, better coaching staff, clear role)?

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