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Rank the Wolves Off-Season

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Rank the Wolves Off-Season

A
1
2%
B
34
62%
C
14
25%
D
4
7%
F
2
4%
 
Total votes: 55

Crazy-Canuck
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#101 » by Crazy-Canuck » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:59 pm

Klomp wrote:
DaKid wrote:I think that they want Wiggins at sg as much as possible. Culver at 6'7 can play sf next to roco at of and Wiggins at sg. Starting okogie puts Wiggins back at sf for the bulk of his minutes.

Culver probably doesn't force defenses to put their SG on Wiggins. Yeah he's taller than Okogie, but he's essentially the same size as Wiggins which allows opponents to essentially pick who they want to defend who. Layman maybe changes that, but the guys who certainly make the decision more interesting for opponents are Covington and Bates-Diop.

And even if it doesn't give Wiggins the better matchup by putting him at SG, odds are it will give a better advantage to someone else.

Just as an example, take a game against Portland. Their most frequent 5 starters last year were Lillard/McCollum/ Harkless/Aminu/Nurkic. Now, let's say Minnesota goes with a starting 5 of Teague/Okogie/Wiggins/Covington/Towns. Aminu may take the toughest matchup in Wiggins, but Portland will gladly play everything else straight-up because McCollum isn't overmatched by Okogie. On the other hand, let's say Minnesota goes bigger on the perimeter with Teague/Wiggins/Bates-Diop/Covington/Towns. If Aminu still takes Wiggins, that gives either Covington or Bates-Diop a considerable size and strength advantage over McCollum. If Portland plays it straight-up, Wiggins has the size advantage over McCollum.

It'll be a similar situation with this year's Warriors, who may choose to simply play things straight up (obviously there's switching usually involved), but to have Russell taking Wiggins rather than Covington or Bates-Diop. Advantage: Wiggins. With Okogie starting, no need for GSW to be concerned about the matchups. Same for Houston, with Westbrook and Harden in the backcourt.



I dont think it matters whether its culver, okogie, or layman next to wiggins next year. The opposing team will always put their best defender on wiggs.

Culver is a rookie
okogie is still okogie
Cov is a spot up guy
Layman is another roleplayer type that isnt really threatening.

None of those can really punish weak defenders in attacks, post ups etc..

What this does though is put wiggs in the on the ball role where he can just attack like he did 2 years ago while the other 4 are better playing off the ball. Okogie, layman, roco can be really useful spotting up in the corners, energy plays for rebounds and lose balls etc.. Culver is still an unknown, so we dont know how he will fit in yet.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#102 » by Klomp » Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:22 am

Crazy-Canuck wrote:I dont think it matters whether its culver, okogie, or layman next to wiggins next year. The opposing team will always put their best defender on wiggs.

This is why it matters, as I wrote in the quoted post:

And even if it doesn't give Wiggins the better matchup by putting him at SG, odds are it will give a better advantage to someone else.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#103 » by Jedzz » Fri Aug 2, 2019 2:03 am

Crazy-Canuck wrote:Culver is a rookie
okogie is still okogie
Cov is a spot up guy
Layman is another roleplayer type that isnt really threatening.

None of those can really punish weak defenders in attacks, post ups etc..


Might be a bit of a glue guy, and probably shouldn't leave him undefended.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#104 » by KGdaBom » Fri Aug 2, 2019 4:12 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Crazy-Canuck wrote:Culver is a rookie
okogie is still okogie
Cov is a spot up guy
Layman is another roleplayer type that isnt really threatening.

None of those can really punish weak defenders in attacks, post ups etc..


Might be a bit of a glue guy, and probably shouldn't leave him undefended.

Offensively I think Layman is threatening to the opponent. He's going to be shooting 3s or taking it to the rim every minute he's on the court.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#105 » by Colbinii » Mon Aug 5, 2019 6:15 pm

For anyone who doesn't listen to good basketball podcasts I recommend giving Hoopshype a listen. They are currently giving off-season grades to all teams and the 3 main guys gave the Wolves a D, B and B+.

It appears that many people on this forum are disconnected with the reality of what a good off-season looks like or what the direction of the Minnesota Timberwolves is.

For starters the Timberwolves started this off-season with few assets. No cap space, the #11 pick in the draft, and Covington/Okogie/Saric as tradeable contracts with actual value. The Wolves were able to package the lowest two value assets (Saric and #11) for a player who has the potential to be one of the three best players in the draft in Culver.

The Timberwolves added a good amount of short contracts (Stop-gap players) instead of overpaying Fan Favorites like Tyus Jones. The list includes Shabazz Napier, Treveon Graham, Jake Layman, Tyrone Wallace and Noah Vonleh.

Instead of criticizing the Wolves for not adding a fairy tale player (Like adding a max-contract Russell with 0 cap space) why would we not analyze the off-season from what the Wolves had to work with in terms of assets?

They didn't mortgage away the future by off-loading contracts attached with picks. They didnt trade away one of the bargain contracts in the NBA in Covington. They didnt overpay a backup PG MLE money when the different between Jones and Napier is going to be unnoticed.

RE: Layman

Layman is a tremendous off-ball threat who finishes well around the rim, shoots the 3 ball well and doesn't need the ball to be productive. Over 80% of his shots come from at the rim or beyond the 3 point line; the ideal wing. He has good size for a wing at 6' 9" and can play the 2/3/4.

What I am most looking forward to is having Towns being the primary creator offensively. The burden will be on him offensively and I fully expect him to embrace it. No more Butler, no more Tyus and more shooters/off-ball movement around Towns should open up the game for both him and Wiggins offensively. This will be the season where we find out if Towns can be a 4-5 Assist per night guy and primary playmaking hub (Like Kg/Jokic; obviously not at that level) or an Anthony Davis offensively.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#106 » by Jedzz » Tue Aug 6, 2019 4:13 am

Colbinii wrote:For anyone who doesn't listen to good basketball podcasts I recommend giving Hoopshype a listen. They are currently giving off-season grades to all teams and the 3 main guys gave the Wolves a D, B and B+.

It appears that many people on this forum are disconnected with the reality of what a good off-season looks like or what the direction of the Minnesota Timberwolves is.

For starters the Timberwolves started this off-season with few assets. No cap space, the #11 pick in the draft, and Covington/Okogie/Saric as tradeable contracts with actual value. The Wolves were able to package the lowest two value assets (Saric and #11) for a player who has the potential to be one of the three best players in the draft in Culver.

The Timberwolves added a good amount of short contracts (Stop-gap players) instead of overpaying Fan Favorites like Tyus Jones. The list includes Shabazz Napier, Treveon Graham, Jake Layman, Tyrone Wallace and Noah Vonleh.

Instead of criticizing the Wolves for not adding a fairy tale player (Like adding a max-contract Russell with 0 cap space) why would we not analyze the off-season from what the Wolves had to work with in terms of assets?

They didn't mortgage away the future by off-loading contracts attached with picks. They didnt trade away one of the bargain contracts in the NBA in Covington. They didnt overpay a backup PG MLE money when the different between Jones and Napier is going to be unnoticed.

RE: Layman

Layman is a tremendous off-ball threat who finishes well around the rim, shoots the 3 ball well and doesn't need the ball to be productive. Over 80% of his shots come from at the rim or beyond the 3 point line; the ideal wing. He has good size for a wing at 6' 9" and can play the 2/3/4.

What I am most looking forward to is having Towns being the primary creator offensively. The burden will be on him offensively and I fully expect him to embrace it. No more Butler, no more Tyus and more shooters/off-ball movement around Towns should open up the game for both him and Wiggins offensively. This will be the season where we find out if Towns can be a 4-5 Assist per night guy and primary playmaking hub (Like Kg/Jokic; obviously not at that level) or an Anthony Davis offensively.


Great post to read. I'm all for bringing in new blood here and some of the pickups seem really intriguing. The problems for me are that until the games roll out I just don't know who's really going to play here. This team needs shooters and has for ten years. But I just don't see them making room for any real shooters.

From what I've watched out there available on Layman, he appears head and shoulders a better basketball player than our max guy Wiggins. Only, we have people chatting here about, and including realgm's own team page, showing Layman as our depth PF, buried behind another SF at being used at PF in Covington. And why? Because we are stuck with this Max SF Wiggins who hasn't been able to handle the role but he starts there anyway, or at SG. Then we have the great hope trade up Culver who's probably going to be getting major minutes or maybe even starting I guess. So I'm having trouble seeing where a guy like Layman is going to get the minutes from. We've seen players like him getting thrown into only minor minutes at the 4 and that's hit here. Just a waste.

We've had our Pobo and people here raving about this 1-3-1 rotation of 3 wings. But if we are going to get even half of these wings floor time it's going to have to be 4-1, as in 4 wings and a funeral.
These are my opinions.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#107 » by Klomp » Tue Aug 6, 2019 5:50 am

Jedzz wrote:From what I've watched out there available on Layman, he appears head and shoulders a better basketball player than our max guy Wiggins. Only, we have people chatting here about, and including realgm's own team page, showing Layman as our depth PF, buried behind another SF at being used at PF in Covington. And why? Because we are stuck with this Max SF Wiggins who hasn't been able to handle the role but he starts there anyway, or at SG. Then we have the great hope trade up Culver who's probably going to be getting major minutes or maybe even starting I guess. So I'm having trouble seeing where a guy like Layman is going to get the minutes from. We've seen players like him getting thrown into only minor minutes at the 4 and that's hit here. Just a waste.

We've had our Pobo and people here raving about this 1-3-1 rotation of 3 wings. But if we are going to get even half of these wings floor time it's going to have to be 4-1, as in 4 wings and a funeral.

I truly believe Layman will play a bigger role here than almost anyone envisions. I think he starts the season as our sixth man, or maybe even as the 5th starter alongside Teague, Wiggins, Covington and Towns.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#108 » by Colbinii » Tue Aug 6, 2019 5:25 pm

Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:From what I've watched out there available on Layman, he appears head and shoulders a better basketball player than our max guy Wiggins. Only, we have people chatting here about, and including realgm's own team page, showing Layman as our depth PF, buried behind another SF at being used at PF in Covington. And why? Because we are stuck with this Max SF Wiggins who hasn't been able to handle the role but he starts there anyway, or at SG. Then we have the great hope trade up Culver who's probably going to be getting major minutes or maybe even starting I guess. So I'm having trouble seeing where a guy like Layman is going to get the minutes from. We've seen players like him getting thrown into only minor minutes at the 4 and that's hit here. Just a waste.

We've had our Pobo and people here raving about this 1-3-1 rotation of 3 wings. But if we are going to get even half of these wings floor time it's going to have to be 4-1, as in 4 wings and a funeral.

I truly believe Layman will play a bigger role here than almost anyone envisions. I think he starts the season as our sixth man, or maybe even as the 5th starter alongside Teague, Wiggins, Covington and Towns.


I would be surprised (not shocked) if Layman wasn't the starter for game 1.

If you look at his numbers with Portland in 2019 he was tremendous with their starting line-up and given his skill-set it makes sense. He works off the ball perfectly both with cuts and moving to the open space. He can guard 3's and 4's and he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective.

Layman was in 3 of the top 5 5-man line-ups (minimum 50 minutes) for Portland and 2 of the top 3. The fact that he was such a great fit next to Nurkic (an underrated passer for a big man) gives me high hopes for Layman next to Towns.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#109 » by KGdaBom » Tue Aug 6, 2019 6:13 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:From what I've watched out there available on Layman, he appears head and shoulders a better basketball player than our max guy Wiggins. Only, we have people chatting here about, and including realgm's own team page, showing Layman as our depth PF, buried behind another SF at being used at PF in Covington. And why? Because we are stuck with this Max SF Wiggins who hasn't been able to handle the role but he starts there anyway, or at SG. Then we have the great hope trade up Culver who's probably going to be getting major minutes or maybe even starting I guess. So I'm having trouble seeing where a guy like Layman is going to get the minutes from. We've seen players like him getting thrown into only minor minutes at the 4 and that's hit here. Just a waste.

We've had our Pobo and people here raving about this 1-3-1 rotation of 3 wings. But if we are going to get even half of these wings floor time it's going to have to be 4-1, as in 4 wings and a funeral.

I truly believe Layman will play a bigger role here than almost anyone envisions. I think he starts the season as our sixth man, or maybe even as the 5th starter alongside Teague, Wiggins, Covington and Towns.


I would be surprised (not shocked) if Layman wasn't the starter for game 1

If you look at his numbers with Portland in 2019 he was tremendous with their starting line-up and given his skill-set it makes sense. He works off the ball perfectly both with cuts and moving to the open space. He can guard 3's and 4's and he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective.

Layman was in 3 of the top 5 5-man line-ups (minimum 50 minutes) for Portland and 2 of the top 3. The fact that he was such a great fit next to Nurkic (an underrated passer for a big man) gives me high hopes for Layman next to Towns.

Be prepared to be surprised. RoCo will be the big wing of the three wings. No way that Wiggins isn't starting and Okogie will be the other wing until Culver is the other wing. I'm with Klomp that Layman is likely to be the 6th man or at least the 7th man. I see Vonleh as the 8th Man. Napier, Dieng, Bell would likely be the other players to see much of any minutes. I don't see KBD, Nowell, Reid, Wallace, or Graham getting on the court for other than Garbage time or G League time.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#110 » by Colbinii » Tue Aug 6, 2019 6:15 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Klomp wrote:I truly believe Layman will play a bigger role here than almost anyone envisions. I think he starts the season as our sixth man, or maybe even as the 5th starter alongside Teague, Wiggins, Covington and Towns.


I would be surprised (not shocked) if Layman wasn't the starter for game 1

If you look at his numbers with Portland in 2019 he was tremendous with their starting line-up and given his skill-set it makes sense. He works off the ball perfectly both with cuts and moving to the open space. He can guard 3's and 4's and he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective.

Layman was in 3 of the top 5 5-man line-ups (minimum 50 minutes) for Portland and 2 of the top 3. The fact that he was such a great fit next to Nurkic (an underrated passer for a big man) gives me high hopes for Layman next to Towns.

Be prepared to be surprised. RoCo will be the big wing of the three wings. No way that Wiggins isn't starting and Okogie will be the other wing until Culver is the other wing. I'm with Klomp that Layman is likely to be the 6th man or at least the 7th man. I see Vonleh as the 8th Man. Napier, Dieng, Bell would likely be the other players to see much of any minutes. I don't see KBD, Nowell, Reid, Wallace, or Graham getting on the court for other than Garbage time or G League time.


I think Layman offers a lot more for the team than Okogie at this stage.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#111 » by Klomp » Tue Aug 6, 2019 6:18 pm

KGdaBom wrote:Be prepared to be surprised. RoCo will be the big wing of the three wings. No way that Wiggins isn't starting and Okogie will be the other wing until Culver is the other wing.

Gut feeling, but I think Okogie may have a smaller role than many anticipate.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the perimeter rotation be Teague / Wiggins / Layman / Covington starting with Napier / Culver / Okogie off the bench.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#112 » by KGdaBom » Tue Aug 6, 2019 6:23 pm

Colbinii wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
I would be surprised (not shocked) if Layman wasn't the starter for game 1

If you look at his numbers with Portland in 2019 he was tremendous with their starting line-up and given his skill-set it makes sense. He works off the ball perfectly both with cuts and moving to the open space. He can guard 3's and 4's and he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective.

Layman was in 3 of the top 5 5-man line-ups (minimum 50 minutes) for Portland and 2 of the top 3. The fact that he was such a great fit next to Nurkic (an underrated passer for a big man) gives me high hopes for Layman next to Towns.

Be prepared to be surprised. RoCo will be the big wing of the three wings. No way that Wiggins isn't starting and Okogie will be the other wing until Culver is the other wing. I'm with Klomp that Layman is likely to be the 6th man or at least the 7th man. I see Vonleh as the 8th Man. Napier, Dieng, Bell would likely be the other players to see much of any minutes. I don't see KBD, Nowell, Reid, Wallace, or Graham getting on the court for other than Garbage time or G League time.


I think Layman offers a lot more for the team than Okogie at this stage.

I wouldn't say a lot more, but possibly more. Okogie IMO is a better fit with RoCo and Wiggins than Layman. I also I think Layman will need to earn the minutes over Okogie during the first few weeks of the season. This will all be moot once Culver is starting which will likely be game one. If not it will be very soon afterwards.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#113 » by KGdaBom » Tue Aug 6, 2019 6:26 pm

Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Be prepared to be surprised. RoCo will be the big wing of the three wings. No way that Wiggins isn't starting and Okogie will be the other wing until Culver is the other wing.

Gut feeling, but I think Okogie may have a smaller role than many anticipate.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the perimeter rotation be Teague / Wiggins / Layman / Covington starting with Napier / Culver / Okogie off the bench.

Culver is going to be starting and early in the season. Once that happens whether it be game one or game 10 we won't have Layman or Okogie in the starting lineup. Until then I wouldn't hate Layman starting, but it's not what I expect.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#114 » by Klomp » Tue Aug 6, 2019 6:51 pm

KGdaBom wrote:I wouldn't say a lot more, but possibly more. Okogie IMO is a better fit with RoCo and Wiggins than Layman. I also I think Layman will need to earn the minutes over Okogie during the first few weeks of the season. This will all be moot once Culver is starting which will likely be game one. If not it will be very soon afterwards.

I don't feel the same way, especially offensively. Can't help but feel like the summer league performance left a sour taste in mouths of the staff. I know it did mine.

Obviously guys have to earn their minutes. But I believe Layman, being a veteran with a desired offensive skillset, is more likely to do so than Okogie, a younger player who can be erratic and inefficient on offense.

Working in Okogie's favor is the fact that the starting lineup is already leaning offensive and may need an extra punch of defense.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#115 » by Dewey » Tue Aug 6, 2019 7:58 pm

Nowell adds a solid prospect in a key position ... with pt aside, Nowell and Culver additions hold their own defensively I expect they both add some ball-handling - which I think helps Wiggins, RoCo, Layman in the long run. Better balance

Teague, Napier, McLaughlin
Culver, Okogie, Nowell, Wallace
RoCo, Wiggins, Layman, Graham
Bell, KBD,
KAT, Vonleh, Reid
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#116 » by Slim Tubby » Tue Aug 6, 2019 8:14 pm

Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Be prepared to be surprised. RoCo will be the big wing of the three wings. No way that Wiggins isn't starting and Okogie will be the other wing until Culver is the other wing.

Gut feeling, but I think Okogie may have a smaller role than many anticipate.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the perimeter rotation be Teague / Wiggins / Layman / Covington starting with Napier / Culver / Okogie off the bench.


Having Okogie, Culver and Layman pushing each other for minutes can only be a good thing for us IMO. As KG mentioned, if Culver ends up starting for us sooner rather than later, that means we hit a homerun in the draft regardless of how Nowell and Reid pan out. I think we'll need to be very patient early on while the younger guys and newly acquired players settle in.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#117 » by KGdaBom » Tue Aug 6, 2019 8:16 pm

Dewey wrote:Nowell adds a solid prospect in a key position ... with pt aside, Nowell and Culver additions hold their own defensively I expect they both add some ball-handling - which I think helps Wiggins, RoCo, Layman in the long run. Better balance

Teague, Napier, McLaughlin
Culver, Okogie, Nowell, Wallace
RoCo, Wiggins, Layman, Graham
Bell, KBD,
KAT, Vonleh, Reid

Dewey could you rethink this a bit and make sure this depth chart is truly what you believe?

Despite the Wolves saying RoCo will be the PF this year you believe he will be the SF with Wiggins riding the pine? As for the PF spot which may primarily be RoCo, wouldn't Vonleh be more likely to back up that spot than Bell or KBD. I will be SHOCKED if Bell is the starting PF or big wing, however you like to declare the position. Also where is Dieng in your scenario? Just left to rot on the bench while we play Reid ahead of him?
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#118 » by Dewey » Wed Aug 7, 2019 4:19 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Dewey wrote:Nowell adds a solid prospect in a key position ... with pt aside, Nowell and Culver additions hold their own defensively I expect they both add some ball-handling - which I think helps Wiggins, RoCo, Layman in the long run. Better balance

Teague, Napier, McLaughlin
Culver, Okogie, Nowell, Wallace
RoCo, Wiggins, Layman, Graham
Bell, KBD,
KAT, Vonleh, Reid

Dewey could you rethink this a bit and make sure this depth chart is truly what you believe?

Despite the Wolves saying RoCo will be the PF this year you believe he will be the SF with Wiggins riding the pine? As for the PF spot which may primarily be RoCo, wouldn't Vonleh be more likely to back up that spot than Bell or KBD. I will be SHOCKED if Bell is the starting PF or big wing, however you like to declare the position. Also where is Dieng in your scenario? Just left to rot on the bench while we play Reid ahead of him?

Um... I dont have a depth chart contrary to what you might think :roll: ,,, merely listing players by general positions. Ya everyone likes to say this guy can play multpile positions, but lets be real, no one here knows what the depth chart will look like, who will start, who will be the first man off the bench, who will be cut, who wont suit up, who will be traded, who will be injured ... yada yada yada ...

As far as Dieng ... Are you like the tattle tale patrol??? forgot a name - whoopie.
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Re: Rank the Wolves Off-Season 

Post#119 » by KGdaBom » Wed Aug 7, 2019 11:33 pm

Dewey wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Dewey wrote:Nowell adds a solid prospect in a key position ... with pt aside, Nowell and Culver additions hold their own defensively I expect they both add some ball-handling - which I think helps Wiggins, RoCo, Layman in the long run. Better balance

Teague, Napier, McLaughlin
Culver, Okogie, Nowell, Wallace
RoCo, Wiggins, Layman, Graham
Bell, KBD,
KAT, Vonleh, Reid

Dewey could you rethink this a bit and make sure this depth chart is truly what you believe?

Despite the Wolves saying RoCo will be the PF this year you believe he will be the SF with Wiggins riding the pine? As for the PF spot which may primarily be RoCo, wouldn't Vonleh be more likely to back up that spot than Bell or KBD. I will be SHOCKED if Bell is the starting PF or big wing, however you like to declare the position. Also where is Dieng in your scenario? Just left to rot on the bench while we play Reid ahead of him?

Um... I dont have a depth chart contrary to what you might think :roll: ,,, merely listing players by general positions. Ya everyone likes to say this guy can play multpile positions, but lets be real, no one here knows what the depth chart will look like, who will start, who will be the first man off the bench, who will be cut, who wont suit up, who will be traded, who will be injured ... yada yada yada ...

As far as Dieng ... Are you like the tattle tale patrol??? forgot a name - whoopie.

Not tattle tale. I was wondering if you were intentionally not listing him. What you posted looked like a depth chart to me. Thanks for clarifying that it was just a list of Wolves players. 8-)

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