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We have a glut of bigs

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We have a glut of bigs 

Post#1 » by MPLSwolves » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:57 pm

Going into this offseason, all we had was KAT/Dieng/Saric.

Fast forward to today, we have KAT/Dieng/Bell/Vonleh/Reid.

We also have indications the team will be pursuing a more small-ball lineup, which means these bigs will be competing for playing time at the 4 with the likes of Covington/Layman/Bates-Diop.

If the goal of this offseason was to rebuild the culture and ensure everyone was playing as a team, does anyone else have concerns we could have disgruntled players who are struggling to get playing time? I don't think Reid will be much a problem, considering he is likely grateful for signing a multi-year deal in the first place, but at the same time we have guys like Vonleh and Bell who have even said they chose to come here because they expected to get immediate playing time...

If the Wolves want to run a 2-big lineup like in years past, then I don't see much a problem... I think Vonleh/Bell are actually good complimentary players to KAT/Dieng... But as I mentioned, once we add a small-ball lineup to the mix, minutes start to become scarce and fast... I'm a little nervous someone like Bell will become upset if he struggles to see the floor. Same from Vonleh.. I know this might seem like I am making a mountain out of a mole hill, but this franchise has seen, very recently, that we do not have the leadership (as far as the players) to handle locker room disfunction.

Was just wondering if this is on anyone else's radar.. I really like Vonleh and think he is on the path to becoming a good player, but I wonder if we may have been better off not signing him. For one, I don't think we will be able to re-sign him next year. Either he plays well and gets a huge deal we can't match from another team, or he plays poorly/lacks playing time, and he leaves to find greener pastors.. What was in it for us in signing him? An extra body? I get hindsight is 20/20, but if we don't have Vonleh, Reid would be in better position to get meaningful minutes. The future of the Wolves would be much better off if we could use this season to evaluate Reid and allow him to get better.

I am sure Reid will likely be playing in Iowa for much of the season, so maybe my concerns are meaningless, but I do fear we will get to a point where the fans will be crying for Reid and yet Vonleh, Bell, and Dieng are already upset about their minutes.

TL/DR: I am worried about the glut of bigs we have.. Think it can become more of a curse than a blessing.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#2 » by Varejao17 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:22 pm

Last season Dieng didn’t play some games and averaged like 13 mpg (I don’t see his minutes going up), like you said Reid is going to be playing a lot in Iowa, so I guess Bell and Vonleh are getting plenty of minutes (if they deserve, of course).
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#3 » by Klomp » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:50 pm

Even with Reid's longterm deal, I still expect him to spend a lot of time in Iowa. Then it comes down to the three guys behind Towns.

While I have been one of the more vocal people here fighting for the 1-3-1, information is always changing. I was only talking about it that much because that's what the team has talked a lot about. However, I'm not too stubborn to change my stance when new information comes along.

Last week on Barreiro's show, Rosas wasn't as tied to the 1-3-1 as I remembered previously. He still said we're probably going to be "wing-oriented" but that it's a fluid situation. It's about putting the best players on the floor and putting defense, versatility and shooting around Towns. The great thing about most of the backup bigs is that they fit that description.

The reality is though that this is going to be a transition year. Bell and Vonleh are on one-year deals, and it wouldn't surprise me if this is Dieng's last year here too. Guys are playing for their jobs. As for why we signed both Bell and Vonleh, we're taking chances on both of them in hopes that one of them breaks out and becomes a core part of the team going forward. So while there are three guys behind Towns right now, in reality, those three could be down to one by next season. It's on them to prove their worth and earn their minutes.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#4 » by wolves_89 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:20 pm

I think the Wolves PF-C depth is about right. Towns is going to get his minutes and after that I'm expecting Dieng to be second in minutes for the rotation bigs. Vonleh and Bell will both see time in certain match-ups, mainly when there is a bigger offensive PF who can score (Vonleh put in to defend) or the opposition is getting to the basket too often (Bell put in to anchor the defense). Reid is likely to remain in Iowa unless he's needed due to injuries.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#5 » by mplsfonz23 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:02 pm

Klomp wrote:Even with Reid's longterm deal, I still expect him to spend a lot of time in Iowa. Then it comes down to the three guys behind Towns.

While I have been one of the more vocal people here fighting for the 1-3-1, information is always changing. I was only talking about it that much because that's what the team has talked a lot about. However, I'm not too stubborn to change my stance when new information comes along.

Last week on Barreiro's show, Rosas wasn't as tied to the 1-3-1 as I remembered previously. He still said we're probably going to be "wing-oriented" but that it's a fluid situation. It's about putting the best players on the floor and putting defense, versatility and shooting around Towns. The great thing about most of the backup bigs is that they fit that description.

The reality is though that this is going to be a transition year. Bell and Vonleh are on one-year deals, and it wouldn't surprise me if this is Dieng's last year here too. Guys are playing for their jobs. As for why we signed both Bell and Vonleh, we're taking chances on both of them in hopes that one of them breaks out and becomes a core part of the team going forward. So while there are three guys behind Towns right now, in reality, those three could be down to one by next season. It's on them to prove their worth and earn their minutes.


Yeah, that and they are cheap deals to help us stay below Taylors threshold.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#6 » by Slim Tubby » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:22 pm

Klomp wrote:Even with Reid's longterm deal, I still expect him to spend a lot of time in Iowa. Then it comes down to the three guys behind Towns.

While I have been one of the more vocal people here fighting for the 1-3-1, information is always changing. I was only talking about it that much because that's what the team has talked a lot about. However, I'm not too stubborn to change my stance when new information comes along.

Last week on Barreiro's show, Rosas wasn't as tied to the 1-3-1 as I remembered previously. He still said we're probably going to be "wing-oriented" but that it's a fluid situation. It's about putting the best players on the floor and putting defense, versatility and shooting around Towns. The great thing about most of the backup bigs is that they fit that description.

The reality is though that this is going to be a transition year. Bell and Vonleh are on one-year deals, and it wouldn't surprise me if this is Dieng's last year here too. Guys are playing for their jobs. As for why we signed both Bell and Vonleh, we're taking chances on both of them in hopes that one of them breaks out and becomes a core part of the team going forward. So while there are three guys behind Towns right now, in reality, those three could be down to one by next season. It's on them to prove their worth and earn their minutes.


You already alluded to this, klomp, but a lot will also depend how often we play "small ball" with RoCo and Layman getting minutes at PF.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#7 » by Killboard » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:47 pm

Regarding Naz, I believe he will be in Iowa a lot so I would not be worried about him at all.

Regarding Dieng, Bell and Vonleh: Rosas has previously mentioned the 1-3-1 idea. Still those 3 players arent exactly the same mold. Neither of the 3 can be considered a wing on offense, but on defense, Vonleh and Bell can defend wings without losing a step. Dieng cant and Saric wasnt really good at that neither.

I think we will try to play the 1-3-1 and see if it works. If not we will try to play 1-3-1 on defense and 1-2-2 on offense with KAT playing with the ball a lot in the high post/top of the key instead of posting up as frequently as he did with Thibs.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#8 » by Klomp » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:57 pm

Killboard wrote:Regarding Naz, I believe he will be in Iowa a lot so I would not be worried about him at all.

Regarding Dieng, Bell and Vonleh: Rosas has previously mentioned the 1-3-1 idea. Still those 3 players arent exactly the same mold. Neither of the 3 can be considered a wing on offense, but on defense, Vonleh and Bell can defend wings without losing a step. Dieng cant.

I think we will try to play the 1-3-1 and see if it works. If not we will try to play 1-3-1 on defense and 1-2-2 on offense with KAT playing with the ball a lot in the high post/top of the key instead of posting up as frequently as he did with Thibs.

While those guys can't be considered wings, they all can hit open 3s. The biggest key for the offense is going to be spacing. They probably aren't going to be playmakers, but they can probably still be floor-spacers.

Towns will set up at the top of the key to start most possessions, simply because that's what the 5 will be asked to do. One interesting thing will be who they pair Dieng with. Defensively, you're right that Dieng doesn't have as much positional switchability. But on offense, he can set screens and roll, but as a spacing big he's gonna be better in the corner (playing the 4) than at the top of the key (playing the 5). So how do you match that up? Sure those positions won't exclusively be at those spots on the floor, but that's how most possessions are likely to start.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#9 » by Worm Guts » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:41 pm

I think it will be tough for both Dieng and Bell to get minutes. There’s only really room for one backup center.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#10 » by Killboard » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:07 pm

Klomp wrote:
Killboard wrote:Regarding Naz, I believe he will be in Iowa a lot so I would not be worried about him at all.

Regarding Dieng, Bell and Vonleh: Rosas has previously mentioned the 1-3-1 idea. Still those 3 players arent exactly the same mold. Neither of the 3 can be considered a wing on offense, but on defense, Vonleh and Bell can defend wings without losing a step. Dieng cant.

I think we will try to play the 1-3-1 and see if it works. If not we will try to play 1-3-1 on defense and 1-2-2 on offense with KAT playing with the ball a lot in the high post/top of the key instead of posting up as frequently as he did with Thibs.

While those guys can't be considered wings, they all can hit open 3s. The biggest key for the offense is going to be spacing. They probably aren't going to be playmakers, but they can probably still be floor-spacers.

Towns will set up at the top of the key to start most possessions, simply because that's what the 5 will be asked to do. One interesting thing will be who they pair Dieng with. Defensively, you're right that Dieng doesn't have as much positional switch ability. But on offense, he can set screens and roll, but as a spacing big he's gonna be better in the corner (playing the 4) than at the top of the key (playing the 5). So how do you match that up? Sure those positions won't exclusively be at those spots on the floor, but that's how most possessions are likely to start.


The roster has loaded up on defensive prospects. They also brought Vanterpool that made Portland really click on that side of the court under his/Stotts tenure. I point this because I think they really want to change the culture and could be willing to sacrifice offensive power for this.

KAT will be the showdown offensively while on the floor. Hopefully a rugged perimeter defense can help him to not foul as much and be in position to disrupt more shots. With the 2nd unit will be interesting. Obviously nobody is going to be as versatile as KAT but we neither have a 2nd high usage guy who can soak up the offensive burden.

It's likely to be Teague, Wiggins or Culver to carry the offense of that 2nd unit. All of them need space to operate. Vonleh and Dieng are good mid range jumpers and could make the corner 3 if one of them doesn't start. Bell has not show that yet and would have to excel as a roller/cutter.

Maybe the 2nd unit its really the opportunity to play 1-3-1 with Layman, Roco or KBD (if he can make the 3) at PF since a lot of 2nd units in the league are generally more small ball oriented.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#11 » by Jedzz » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:08 pm

mplsfonz23 wrote:
Klomp wrote:Even with Reid's longterm deal, I still expect him to spend a lot of time in Iowa. Then it comes down to the three guys behind Towns.

While I have been one of the more vocal people here fighting for the 1-3-1, information is always changing. I was only talking about it that much because that's what the team has talked a lot about. However, I'm not too stubborn to change my stance when new information comes along.

Last week on Barreiro's show, Rosas wasn't as tied to the 1-3-1 as I remembered previously. He still said we're probably going to be "wing-oriented" but that it's a fluid situation. It's about putting the best players on the floor and putting defense, versatility and shooting around Towns. The great thing about most of the backup bigs is that they fit that description.

The reality is though that this is going to be a transition year. Bell and Vonleh are on one-year deals, and it wouldn't surprise me if this is Dieng's last year here too. Guys are playing for their jobs. As for why we signed both Bell and Vonleh, we're taking chances on both of them in hopes that one of them breaks out and becomes a core part of the team going forward. So while there are three guys behind Towns right now, in reality, those three could be down to one by next season. It's on them to prove their worth and earn their minutes.


Yeah, that and they are cheap deals to help us stay below Taylors threshold.


Could be. I was kind of thinking one of them was planned to be added as an extra in a trade with another team that needed a big which was still to come. Situation being so "liquid" because the status of that looming trade is still liquid.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#12 » by Jedzz » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:12 pm

Worm Guts wrote:I think it will be tough for both Dieng and Bell to get minutes. There’s only really room for one backup center.
That's right, and not much room due to Kat's minutes. Unless they plan to relax or load limit him this year a bit more.

I don't know a lot about Bell, but from a clip or two doesn't he look like he could fill in at the four often? We have Kat's offense from the 5, so do we really need offense from the 4? Seems like everyone that has been playing the four is less involved in the offense and people start getting down on them for that. But there is KAT, so, maybe that's just going to be how it is for any big or anyone at the 4 along side him.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#13 » by KGdaBom » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:37 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:I think it will be tough for both Dieng and Bell to get minutes. There’s only really room for one backup center.
That's right, and not much room due to Kat's minutes. Unless they plan to relax or load limit him this year a bit more.

I don't know a lot about Bell, but from a clip or two doesn't he look like he could fill in at the four often? We have Kat's offense from the 5, so do we really need offense from the 4? Seems like everyone that has been playing the four is less involved in the offense and people start getting down on them for that. But there is KAT, so, maybe that's just going to be how it is for any big or anyone at the 4 along side him.

RoCo will primarily play the 4 by default and will be launching a lot of 3s.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#14 » by Worm Guts » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:45 pm

We could play Bell or Dieng next to Towns in the frontcourt but I’m assuming we want to move more towards 3 wings than twin towers. Assuming Vonleh gets some time as a conventional PF, that probably leaves 20-25 minutes for other lineups.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#15 » by KGdaBom » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:55 pm

Worm Guts wrote:We could play Bell or Dieng next to Towns in the frontcourt but I’m assuming we want to move more towards 3 wings than twin towers. Assuming Vonleh gets some time as a conventional PF, that probably leaves 20-25 minutes for other lineups.

When Vonleh was getting minutes last year, he was close to a double double machine.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#16 » by Jedzz » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:58 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:I think it will be tough for both Dieng and Bell to get minutes. There’s only really room for one backup center.
That's right, and not much room due to Kat's minutes. Unless they plan to relax or load limit him this year a bit more.

I don't know a lot about Bell, but from a clip or two doesn't he look like he could fill in at the four often? We have Kat's offense from the 5, so do we really need offense from the 4? Seems like everyone that has been playing the four is less involved in the offense and people start getting down on them for that. But there is KAT, so, maybe that's just going to be how it is for any big or anyone at the 4 along side him.

RoCo will primarily play the 4 by default and will be launching a lot of 3s.


idk. If RoCo plays the 4 role often I think people might start to get down on him too, just like others before him. Hard to say though given I haven't the foggiest what this team will play like under this new regime.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#17 » by KGdaBom » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:02 am

Jedzz wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Jedzz wrote: That's right, and not much room due to Kat's minutes. Unless they plan to relax or load limit him this year a bit more.

I don't know a lot about Bell, but from a clip or two doesn't he look like he could fill in at the four often? We have Kat's offense from the 5, so do we really need offense from the 4? Seems like everyone that has been playing the four is less involved in the offense and people start getting down on them for that. But there is KAT, so, maybe that's just going to be how it is for any big or anyone at the 4 along side him.

RoCo will primarily play the 4 by default and will be launching a lot of 3s.


idk. If RoCo plays the 4 role often I think people might start to get down on him too, just like others before him. Hard to say though given I haven't the foggiest what this team will play like under this new regime.

RoCo will dominate at the 4. It will take the 3 point shot away from Opponents and he will get plenty of steals and blocks when they try to post him up. On offense he will be almost unguardable.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#18 » by Jedzz » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:14 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:RoCo will primarily play the 4 by default and will be launching a lot of 3s.


idk. If RoCo plays the 4 role often I think people might start to get down on him too, just like others before him. Hard to say though given I haven't the foggiest what this team will play like under this new regime.

RoCo will dominate at the 4. It will take the 3 point shot away from Opponents and he will get plenty of steals and blocks when they try to post him up. On offense he will be almost unguardable.


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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#19 » by Klomp » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:17 am

When Rosas was mentioning Covington, he talked more about the possibility of "shifting him up to SF" in some lineups rather than "shifting him down to PF," so it sounds like PF may be his primary spot.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#20 » by Jedzz » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:43 am

Glut of Bigs, lean on PGs. I hope this means I'll never see two tiny PGs on the floor again when they go small.
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