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We have a glut of bigs

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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#21 » by Klomp » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:01 am

Jedzz wrote:Glut of Bigs, lean on PGs. I hope this means I'll never see two tiny PGs on the floor again when they go small.

Odds are good, considering there are only two players on the current roster listed at shorter than 6-foot-5.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#22 » by DaKid » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:03 am

Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Glut of Bigs, lean on PGs. I hope this means I'll never see two tiny PGs on the floor again when they go small.

Odds are good, considering there are only two players on the current roster listed at shorter than 6-foot-5.


I have a feeling we're going to have times where there is no pg on the floor with Wiggins or another wing initiating the offense. I'm all for Wiggins getting time at point forward
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#23 » by theGreatRC » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:18 am

Wonder if we'll see a motivated Teague since this is the last year of his deal & he gets to play in a "freer" offense that wants 3s, layups and fast movement.

Really scared for our PG rotation this year, but I still think we're saving ourselves for the eventual DLO trade
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#24 » by KGdaBom » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:53 am

Jedzz wrote:Glut of Bigs, lean on PGs. I hope this means I'll never see two tiny PGs on the floor again when they go small.

Agreed and +1ed.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#25 » by karch34 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:37 am

Worm Guts wrote:I think it will be tough for both Dieng and Bell to get minutes. There’s only really room for one backup center.


That's my thought too, but Bell could work in at PF or what we used to say was PF in a positionless NBA. I'm not totally convinced it winds up a pure 1-3-1. I think match ups will dictate as well.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#26 » by Jedzz » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:38 am

DaKid wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Glut of Bigs, lean on PGs. I hope this means I'll never see two tiny PGs on the floor again when they go small.

Odds are good, considering there are only two players on the current roster listed at shorter than 6-foot-5.


I have a feeling we're going to have times where there is no pg on the floor with Wiggins or another wing initiating the offense. I'm all for Wiggins getting time at point forward


:lol: sorry, no thanks
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#27 » by horaceworthy » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:05 am

I don’t really see a glut. Reid’s a project that will hopefully spend most of the year in Iowa and aside from KAT and Gorgui they’re all essentially on minimum contracts.

One of Gorgui, Bell and Vonleh will likely end up unhappy with their minutes, that’s just the reality of using the 15 roster spots. Even in the pace and space era I’m not sure you can go into a season with less than 4 nba caliber bigs.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#28 » by Klomp » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:05 am

horaceworthy wrote:I don’t really see a glut. Reid’s a project that will hopefully spend most of the year in Iowa and aside from KAT and Gorgui they’re all essentially on minimum contracts.

One of Gorgui, Bell and Vonleh will likely end up unhappy with their minutes, that’s just the reality of using the 15 roster spots. Even in the pace and space era I’m not sure you can go into a season with less than 4 nba caliber bigs.

Completely agree. At least this time we're paying Bell and Vonleh combined less than what Thibs paid Hill.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#29 » by Klomp » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:01 am

I think the interesting thing will be the minutes distributions, especially when it comes to someone like Towns.

His minutes actually dropped from 33.8 to 32.2 last year under Saunders, and that was with arguably less depth behind him. I think 32 is a pretty good number, but could see it even lower.

That's an easy way to ensure everyone gets their time.

I actually could see everyone get time.

Just as an example....
Covington (16) / Bell (16) / Vonleh (16)
Towns (32) / Dieng (16)
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#30 » by Jedzz » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:20 am

Klomp wrote:I think the interesting thing will be the minutes distributions, especially when it comes to someone like Towns.

His minutes actually dropped from 33.8 to 32.2 last year under Saunders, and that was with arguably less depth behind him. I think 32 is a pretty good number, but could see it even lower.

That's an easy way to ensure everyone gets their time.

I actually could see everyone get time.

Just as an example....
Covington (16) / Bell (16) / Vonleh (16)
Towns (32) / Dieng (16)


I lke the idea of not running Towns into the ground full seasons.

Here's another idea. Don't use Covington at the 4 even that much. That too will help others get involved. Keep it to 10 minutes or less at the 4.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#31 » by minimus » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:58 am

I expect our FO to use Bell, Vonleh, Dieng (to less degree) as enforcers, tough guys. Let me explain.

I dont see us winning games on pure talent and offensive brilliance of KAT. The only way we can be competetive is being very active and physical in defense. It means a lot of switches, a lot of good, tough screens by bigs and our wings, a lot of elbows, hits, good, hard fouls. We must play such style of defense to take advantage of our youth and athleticism. We simply can not let others score easy points because if our opponents can rest in offense they will easily shut our developing offense down. I remeber how TOR were able to exaust Curry, he barely could shoot 3s at the end of series.

Same thing goes for our offense. We wont win games with finess moves. Bell and Vonleh should be used as very acrive, physical screeners, high post passers. Make opponent work hard on both ends of the floor.

Last year opponents attacked KAT in order to get easy fouls and make him out of game flow. Behind KAT there was no defensive minded bigman who could provide any resistance. Heck, last season rebounding numbers are awfully bad. Gibson, Saric, AT, Dieng are not athleticaly on the same level as average NBA bigman, but Bell and Vonleh are.

So I dont see us having glut of bigman, but I expect them to play very intense, physical minutes, running and jumping all over the court, contesting shots, body opponents in painted area, fighting for rebounds. Same for wings, Culver, Okogie, RoCo, Nowell, Wallace they all should be playing very active, physical basketball.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#32 » by KGdaBom » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:25 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Klomp wrote:I think the interesting thing will be the minutes distributions, especially when it comes to someone like Towns.

His minutes actually dropped from 33.8 to 32.2 last year under Saunders, and that was with arguably less depth behind him. I think 32 is a pretty good number, but could see it even lower.

That's an easy way to ensure everyone gets their time.

I actually could see everyone get time.

Just as an example....
Covington (16) / Bell (16) / Vonleh (16)
Towns (32) / Dieng (16)


I lke the idea of not running Towns into the ground full seasons.

Here's another idea. Don't use Covington at the 4 even that much. That too will help others get involved. Keep it to 10 minutes or less at the 4.

KAT should play at absolute minimum 32 minutes IMO. He's durable and has never given the tiniest hint at needing his load managed to that extent. Somewhere between 36 and 32 minutes is OK. The more Covington plays SF I bet it means the more Wiggins plays SG curtailing Culver's time on the court. I don't want that. RoCo should get at least 16 minutes at the PF.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#33 » by minimus » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:34 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
Klomp wrote:I think the interesting thing will be the minutes distributions, especially when it comes to someone like Towns.

His minutes actually dropped from 33.8 to 32.2 last year under Saunders, and that was with arguably less depth behind him. I think 32 is a pretty good number, but could see it even lower.

That's an easy way to ensure everyone gets their time.

I actually could see everyone get time.

Just as an example....
Covington (16) / Bell (16) / Vonleh (16)
Towns (32) / Dieng (16)


I lke the idea of not running Towns into the ground full seasons.

Here's another idea. Don't use Covington at the 4 even that much. That too will help others get involved. Keep it to 10 minutes or less at the 4.

KAT should play at absolute minimum 32 minutes IMO. He's durable and has never given the tiniest hint at needing his load managed to that extent. Somewhere between 36 and 32 minutes is OK. The more Covington plays SF I bet it means the more Wiggins plays SG curtailing Culver's time on the court. I don't want that. RoCo should get at least 16 minutes at the PF.


I'm okay with KAT playing way below league average mpg, I'd keep RoCo under 30 minutes as well. I'm okay with reducing playing time after b2b games or games with overtimes or games after long travels. Keeping KAT and other guys healthy while playing competetive basketball should #1 priority

Playing time is valuable resource. Get maximum out of these minutes from KAT/Wiggins/RoCo trio, use minutes left to develop young players. Once our leaders are on the bench it should be up to our bench to step up, both in intensity and hustle.

I dont want to see meangless injuries that can hurt our season again.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#34 » by mplsfonz23 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:39 pm

theGreatRC wrote:Wonder if we'll see a motivated Teague since this is the last year of his deal & he gets to play in a "freer" offense that wants 3s, layups and fast movement.

Really scared for our PG rotation this year, but I still think we're saving ourselves for the eventual DLO trade


This is what I think too. However, I hope we don't sell our future to GS for him. I think Rosas is trying to find a willing sucker to take Wiggins off of our hands, then goes all in to get DLO. That will be his best chance to keep KAT here long term.
I just hope it doesn't turn out like the KG/THud signing.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#35 » by minimus » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:51 pm

mplsfonz23 wrote:
theGreatRC wrote:Wonder if we'll see a motivated Teague since this is the last year of his deal & he gets to play in a "freer" offense that wants 3s, layups and fast movement.

Really scared for our PG rotation this year, but I still think we're saving ourselves for the eventual DLO trade


This is what I think too. However, I hope we don't sell our future to GS for him. I think Rosas is trying to find a willing sucker to take Wiggins off of our hands, then goes all in to get DLO. That will be his best chance to keep KAT here long term.
I just hope it doesn't turn out like the KG/THud signing.


Now I am thinking that all these Wiggins videos are promotional in order to trade him later. :D

P.S. If we can somehow manage to trade Wiggins with only one FRP attached to get DLo it will be an ideal scenario for us.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#36 » by Killboard » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:16 pm

minimus wrote:
mplsfonz23 wrote:
theGreatRC wrote:Wonder if we'll see a motivated Teague since this is the last year of his deal & he gets to play in a "freer" offense that wants 3s, layups and fast movement.

Really scared for our PG rotation this year, but I still think we're saving ourselves for the eventual DLO trade


This is what I think too. However, I hope we don't sell our future to GS for him. I think Rosas is trying to find a willing sucker to take Wiggins off of our hands, then goes all in to get DLO. That will be his best chance to keep KAT here long term.
I just hope it doesn't turn out like the KG/THud signing.


Now I am thinking that all these Wiggins videos are promotional in order to trade him later. :D

P.S. If we can somehow manage to trade Wiggins with only one FRP attached to get DLo it will be an ideal scenario for us.


That's not happening. We could dump Wiggins with only a 1st attached at some point, for a equally bad but shorter contract. Still the Warriors arent taking back whatever we got in return and would require at least Roco.
So would be Wiggins+1st+Roco+something else for Dlo and taking back bad money(for a shorter contract) at very least.

But I dont think a S&T for Russell this offseason was a big risk, basically because you were using Teague money for 75% of that contract. With him choosing the Warriors we keep our flexibility for 2021-2022 in case someone want to come here by then, so that's good. The bad is we lose 2 years of KAT extension in which I think would be competitive basketball with still plenty of upside.

Flexibilty before 2021-2022 will be bad no matter (except somebody is praying to get Dieng or Wiggins, highly unlikely to me) and I dont think anybody as good as DLo is getting here in the meantime without losing major pieces.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#37 » by TheZachAttack » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:13 pm

I 100% think the best move is to play Covington as much as possible at the 4. We do have a glut of bigs, but we also have a glut of wings. There should be as few possible minutes with the starting group on the floor with two primary bigs. This opens up driving lanes for Wiggins, Teague, Culver, Okogie, etc.

I fully expect that there will be guys who are not happy with playing time between Vonleh/Bell/Dieng. I fully expect that those guys are largely Bell and Dieng. Dieng due to long-term fit on this team and Bell due to Vonleh being a better player.

I would rather play lineups with Towns/Teague + 3 of Covington/Layman/Wiggins/Culver/Okogie/Nowell than pair Towns with one of Vonleh/Dieng/Bell and take the wings off the floor.

I will gladly take the floor spacing and increase in switchability and mobility (on both sides of the floor) over the rebounding concerns and 1 on 1 defensive concerns in the post with the smaller lineup.

Lineups with 3 wings 100% allow our players to best maximize their skillsets and complement eachother rather than taking from eachother. I want Wiggins coming off a hand-off downhill with 1 guy (or none in the paint if Towns is spotted up) as his man trails him on his hip rather than driving into two bigs and having to slow down or move east and west and then dealing with 3 defenders, not being able to get all the way to the rim, and taking tough midrange shots.

May the best big win playing time (I am hoping it's Vonleh for the best long term team outcome) and let's fully embrace modern basketball.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#38 » by KGdaBom » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:11 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
I lke the idea of not running Towns into the ground full seasons.

Here's another idea. Don't use Covington at the 4 even that much. That too will help others get involved. Keep it to 10 minutes or less at the 4.

KAT should play at absolute minimum 32 minutes IMO. He's durable and has never given the tiniest hint at needing his load managed to that extent. Somewhere between 36 and 32 minutes is OK. The more Covington plays SF I bet it means the more Wiggins plays SG curtailing Culver's time on the court. I don't want that. RoCo should get at least 16 minutes at the PF.


I'm okay with KAT playing way below league average mpg, I'd keep RoCo under 30 minutes as well. I'm okay with reducing playing time after b2b games or games with overtimes or games after long travels. Keeping KAT and other guys healthy while playing competetive basketball should #1 priority

Playing time is valuable resource. Get maximum out of these minutes from KAT/Wiggins/RoCo trio, use minutes left to develop young players. Once our leaders are on the bench it should be up to our bench to step up, both in intensity and hustle.

I dont want to see meangless injuries that can hurt our season again.

You keep having this idea that playing time leads to an increased injury rate. IT DOESN"T. KAT is an elite supremely conditioned athlete. He is easily able to handle 36 MPG and since he is our best player he should be playing 36 or close to it.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#39 » by KGdaBom » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:17 pm

Killboard wrote:
minimus wrote:
mplsfonz23 wrote:
This is what I think too. However, I hope we don't sell our future to GS for him. I think Rosas is trying to find a willing sucker to take Wiggins off of our hands, then goes all in to get DLO. That will be his best chance to keep KAT here long term.
I just hope it doesn't turn out like the KG/THud signing.


Now I am thinking that all these Wiggins videos are promotional in order to trade him later. :D

P.S. If we can somehow manage to trade Wiggins with only one FRP attached to get DLo it will be an ideal scenario for us.


That's not happening. We could dump Wiggins with only a 1st attached at some point, for a equally bad but shorter contract. Still the Warriors arent taking back whatever we got in return and would require at least Roco.
So would be Wiggins+1st+Roco+something else for Dlo and taking back bad money(for a shorter contract) at very least.

But I dont think a S&T for Russell this offseason was a big risk, basically because you were using Teague money for 75% of that contract. With him choosing the Warriors we keep our flexibility for 2021-2022 in case someone want to come here by then, so that's good. The bad is we lose 2 years of KAT extension in which I think would be competitive basketball with still plenty of upside.

Flexibilty before 2021-2022 will be bad no matter (except somebody is praying to get Dieng or Wiggins, highly unlikely to me) and I dont think anybody as good as DLo is getting here in the meantime without losing major pieces.

The Warriors will quickly find out that Russell is a very bad fit for their team. When December 15th rolls around they will be thrilled to take RoCo and Teague in a straight up trade for Russell. No picks involved either way. I don't see any way they would be taking Wiggins.
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Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#40 » by KGdaBom » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:21 pm

TheZachAttack wrote:I 100% think the best move is to play Covington as much as possible at the 4. We do have a glut of bigs, but we also have a glut of wings. There should be as few possible minutes with the starting group on the floor with two primary bigs. This opens up driving lanes for Wiggins, Teague, Culver, Okogie, etc.

I fully expect that there will be guys who are not happy with playing time between Vonleh/Bell/Dieng. I fully expect that those guys are largely Bell and Dieng. Dieng due to long-term fit on this team and Bell due to Vonleh being a better player.

I would rather play lineups with Towns/Teague + 3 of Covington/Layman/Wiggins/Culver/Okogie/Nowell than pair Towns with one of Vonleh/Dieng/Bell and take the wings off the floor.

I will gladly take the floor spacing and increase in switchability and mobility (on both sides of the floor) over the rebounding concerns and 1 on 1 defensive concerns in the post with the smaller lineup.

Lineups with 3 wings 100% allow our players to best maximize their skillsets and complement eachother rather than taking from eachother. I want Wiggins coming off a hand-off downhill with 1 guy (or none in the paint if Towns is spotted up) as his man trails him on his hip rather than driving into two bigs and having to slow down or move east and west and then dealing with 3 defenders, not being able to get all the way to the rim, and taking tough midrange shots.

May the best big win playing time (I am hoping it's Vonleh for the best long term team outcome) and let's fully embrace modern basketball.

Great post Zach. I don't care much whether we play modern or old fashioned basketball just winning basketball. IMO your proposal will lead to winning basketball.

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