ImageImageImage

We have a glut of bigs

Moderators: Domejandro, Calinks, Worm Guts

Jedzz
Analyst
Posts: 3,466
And1: 867
Joined: Oct 05, 2018
   

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#81 » by Jedzz » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:47 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Jedzz wrote:I would agree they need to start using more of the roster around here to lessen the load on our starters. This includes KAT's minutes.

The trap seems to be that we often feel the roster isn't as good as the opponent's so we feel our best always must be on the court. It just shows less trust in your depth and less ability to rotate your best in with your depth. Ryan showed last season he could use the depth of the roster after the injuries forced it. This time it would be nice to see that done beforehand in order to avoid the injuries.

The better players play more than the lesser players. This is exactly how it should be. As for how much more the better players should play than the lesser players nobody knows. IMO 32-36 MPG is about right. I could be wrong. I could be right. Maybe the correct answer is 28-32. Maybe the NBA could institute a minutes rule. Nobody gets more than 24. That would take the decision making away from the team and the coaches so no team could abuse their teams players with too many minutes.


I think we all know the better players get more minutes. Not sure why you felt that was needed to be said. But stashing #9-15 on your bench for all but 1 minute is also an extreme.

I think it's common sense as to how much is too much, but that also probably changes per the player and the coach who knows his player. Lot's of people claim 40 minutes isn't too much. I don't agree because it's a terrifically long season with plenty of variables being thrown at the players throughout. Sure, 40 minutes of strenuous activity shouldn't be too much for any pro. But saying that doesn't take into account the 82 games of it, the back to back nights, the long plane trips and late nights, the steady years of this pace being cumulative and more. Maybe they played a really physical team on a monday and got a little beat up, then have to follow that up the next day with another game. Is 40 a good idea that night? 38? or 30?

Having the league introduce a limit to avoid bad coaching decisions might be an ok idea. Probably not a lot of backers in the league for that coach wise. In football i hear talk of more games, but then limiting players to only a subset of those games. I think it's wise to think it through. I see Kat getting wild in body movements as he starts to get tired. The way Rubio would when he was younger and less developed, and often injured late in games. I think things like Knee wear and others are cumulative. It all adds up to snapping something at some point.
These are my opinions.
KGdaBom
Head Coach
Posts: 7,069
And1: 1,467
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#82 » by KGdaBom » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:51 pm

Slim Tubby wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:I don't have any stats to back it up but I just feel like Vonleh and Bell are going to have breakout seasons this year and add a lot to this roster. The real enigma in all of this is Layman IMO. I haven't seen a minute of him playing in the NBA so I'm most curious to see what he has to offer.

Layman is tall for an SF and ridiculously athletic. He only shoots drives to the rim, Alley Oops and 3s. He is very streaky on the 3, but a little below average overall. Since he pretty much just shoots layups or Dunks other than 3s he shoots 51% from the field overall.


KG...thanks for the insight on Layman and I know a few of us compared him to a young Chase Budinger after watching some of his highlight videos. Do you think he has a realistic shot of contributing and seeing meaningful minutes this year based on what you've seen of him when he was with the Blazers?

I remember he had some nice stretches where he was fantasy team eligible. I think based on his contract length and $s he has to be a regular rotation player. I would guess a max of 20 MPG.
KGdaBom
Head Coach
Posts: 7,069
And1: 1,467
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#83 » by KGdaBom » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:59 pm

Jedzz wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Jedzz wrote:I would agree they need to start using more of the roster around here to lessen the load on our starters. This includes KAT's minutes.

The trap seems to be that we often feel the roster isn't as good as the opponent's so we feel our best always must be on the court. It just shows less trust in your depth and less ability to rotate your best in with your depth. Ryan showed last season he could use the depth of the roster after the injuries forced it. This time it would be nice to see that done beforehand in order to avoid the injuries.

The better players play more than the lesser players. This is exactly how it should be. As for how much more the better players should play than the lesser players nobody knows. IMO 32-36 MPG is about right. I could be wrong. I could be right. Maybe the correct answer is 28-32. Maybe the NBA could institute a minutes rule. Nobody gets more than 24. That would take the decision making away from the team and the coaches so no team could abuse their teams players with too many minutes.


I think we all know the better players get more minutes. Not sure why you felt that was needed to be said. But stashing #9-15 on your bench for all but 1 minute is also an extreme.

I think it's common sense as to how much is too much, but that also probably changes per the player and the coach who knows his player. Lot's of people claim 40 minutes isn't too much. I don't agree because it's a terrifically long season with plenty of variables being thrown at the players throughout. Sure, 40 minutes of strenuous activity shouldn't be too much for any pro. But saying that doesn't take into account the 82 games of it, the back to back nights, the long plane trips and late nights, the steady years of this pace being cumulative and more. Maybe they played a really physical team on a monday and got a little beat up, then have to follow that up the next day with another game. Is 40 a good idea that night? 38? or 30?

Having the league introduce a limit to avoid bad coaching decisions might be an ok idea. Probably not a lot of backers in the league for that coach wise. In football i hear talk of more games, but then limiting players to only a subset of those games. I think it's wise to think it through. I see Kat getting wild in body movements as he starts to get tired. The way Rubio would when he was younger and less developed, and often injured late in games. I think things like Knee wear and others are cumulative. It all adds up to snapping something at some point.

The better players playing more minutes comment was sarcastic, but not at you. It was at the extreme load management types. The 24 minute league imposed limit was also intended sarcastic, but it wouldn't surprise me if it someday came into effect at 36 MPG. My preference as stated is 32-36. I don't think anyone should be on a league imposed limit of less than 32 ever.
Folklore
Sophomore
Posts: 192
And1: 47
Joined: Jun 13, 2017
 

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#84 » by Folklore » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:36 pm

Slim Tubby wrote:I don't have any stats to back it up but I just feel like Vonleh and Bell are going to have breakout seasons this year and add a lot to this roster. The real enigma in all of this is Layman IMO. I haven't seen a minute of him playing in the NBA so I'm most curious to see what he has to offer.



How much will we be paying them after this breakout season?
User avatar
Killboard
Veteran
Posts: 2,850
And1: 698
Joined: Jul 16, 2010

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#85 » by Killboard » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:28 pm

Folklore wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:I don't have any stats to back it up but I just feel like Vonleh and Bell are going to have breakout seasons this year and add a lot to this roster. The real enigma in all of this is Layman IMO. I haven't seen a minute of him playing in the NBA so I'm most curious to see what he has to offer.



How much will we be paying them after this breakout season?


I think Bell will be a RFA I think because he will have 3 or fewer seasons of experience. Vonleh will be a URFA, and the wolves could not have more than the MLE for him, barring Dieng or Wiggins dump. Even in a breakout season, they are defense first guys that usually are not coveted as much as 3&D or high usage players.
Slim Tubby
Pro Prospect
Posts: 960
And1: 438
Joined: Jun 03, 2017
         

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#86 » by Slim Tubby » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:47 pm

Folklore wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:I don't have any stats to back it up but I just feel like Vonleh and Bell are going to have breakout seasons this year and add a lot to this roster. The real enigma in all of this is Layman IMO. I haven't seen a minute of him playing in the NBA so I'm most curious to see what he has to offer.



How much will we be paying them after this breakout season?


Excellent question...I wish I had the answer. If Vonleh and Bell have good years, that would also be good for our team but would make it harder to retain them with our current cap situation. If they both lay a big turd this upcoming season, it really wouldn't matter either way.
Glen Taylor: "Is this moron #1 (Layden)? Put moron #2 (Thibs) on the phone."
Macwolf527
Sophomore
Posts: 190
And1: 123
Joined: Aug 14, 2017
       

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#87 » by Macwolf527 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:21 pm

Keita Bates-Diop is the one player that I feel is being talked over. His versatility makes him a strong candidate to start at the 4 because he's interchangeable with Wiggins and Covington. I know many of us want to give the advantage to Culver and Okogie as the last starter, but I think KBD is very much in the midst. I was impressed by his shooting in the summer league games. He shot the 3pter with more confidence. It was falling at a pretty good clip until we got to those last few games. I think fatigue caught up with him. He's also more of a creator than Covington and Wiggins. Of those 3, he's the most likely to be a facilitator on offense with dribble drives. Of the 3 categories of defense, shooting, and facilitation, he's one of the most rounded players on the team.
Worm Guts
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 22,278
And1: 5,772
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
     

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#88 » by Worm Guts » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:34 pm

I can't say I was impressed by KBD during the Summer League or really any time in his NBA career. He does seem to have the size of 4 with the skills of a 3, so it would be great for us if he emerged. We'll see if he gets the opportunity, he seems to be towards the back of the depth chart.
alabamawolf
Senior
Posts: 570
And1: 303
Joined: Dec 31, 2011
       

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#89 » by alabamawolf » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:55 pm

Macwolf527 wrote:Keita Bates-Diop is the one player that I feel is being talked over. His versatility makes him a strong candidate to start at the 4 because he's interchangeable with Wiggins and Covington. I know many of us want to give the advantage to Culver and Okogie as the last starter, but I think KBD is very much in the midst. I was impressed by his shooting in the summer league games. He shot the 3pter with more confidence. It was falling at a pretty good clip until we got to those last few games. I think fatigue caught up with him. He's also more of a creator than Covington and Wiggins. Of those 3, he's the most likely to be a facilitator on offense with dribble drives. Of the 3 categories of defense, shooting, and facilitation, he's one of the most rounded players on the team.

If fatigue caught up with him in summer league then he's not ready to start during the 82 game grind. I think he could spot start when someone is injured but I would expect him to average around 15 mpg on the year
KGdaBom
Head Coach
Posts: 7,069
And1: 1,467
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#90 » by KGdaBom » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:02 pm

alabamawolf wrote:
Macwolf527 wrote:Keita Bates-Diop is the one player that I feel is being talked over. His versatility makes him a strong candidate to start at the 4 because he's interchangeable with Wiggins and Covington. I know many of us want to give the advantage to Culver and Okogie as the last starter, but I think KBD is very much in the midst. I was impressed by his shooting in the summer league games. He shot the 3pter with more confidence. It was falling at a pretty good clip until we got to those last few games. I think fatigue caught up with him. He's also more of a creator than Covington and Wiggins. Of those 3, he's the most likely to be a facilitator on offense with dribble drives. Of the 3 categories of defense, shooting, and facilitation, he's one of the most rounded players on the team.

If fatigue caught up with him in summer league then he's not ready to start during the 82 game grind. I think he could spot start when someone is injured but I would expect him to average around 15 mpg on the year

Something Bama and I agree on. I think the additions of Layman and Vonleh both push KBD down the depth chart. I don't even know if we have 15 minutes for KBD.
Dewey
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,925
And1: 328
Joined: May 22, 2001

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#91 » by Dewey » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:51 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
alabamawolf wrote:
Macwolf527 wrote:Keita Bates-Diop is the one player that I feel is being talked over. His versatility makes him a strong candidate to start at the 4 because he's interchangeable with Wiggins and Covington. I know many of us want to give the advantage to Culver and Okogie as the last starter, but I think KBD is very much in the midst. I was impressed by his shooting in the summer league games. He shot the 3pter with more confidence. It was falling at a pretty good clip until we got to those last few games. I think fatigue caught up with him. He's also more of a creator than Covington and Wiggins. Of those 3, he's the most likely to be a facilitator on offense with dribble drives. Of the 3 categories of defense, shooting, and facilitation, he's one of the most rounded players on the team.

If fatigue caught up with him in summer league then he's not ready to start during the 82 game grind. I think he could spot start when someone is injured but I would expect him to average around 15 mpg on the year

Something Bama and I agree on. I think the additions of Layman and Vonleh both push KBD down the depth chart. I don't even know if we have 15 minutes for KBD.

The competition will be swell ... cream always rises to the top. Hope we have 2-3 guys who step up and take care of business
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
Klomp
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 53,227
And1: 10,345
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#92 » by Klomp » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:09 pm

I think Bates-Diop will spend a lot of time in Iowa
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
KGdaBom
Head Coach
Posts: 7,069
And1: 1,467
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#93 » by KGdaBom » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:29 pm

Klomp wrote:I think Bates-Diop will spend a lot of time in Iowa

First I've heard of Iowa talk. Minimus sees this he will have a heart attack.
User avatar
minimus
Head Coach
Posts: 6,132
And1: 1,365
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#94 » by minimus » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:55 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Klomp wrote:I think Bates-Diop will spend a lot of time in Iowa

First I've heard of Iowa talk. Minimus sees this he will have a heart attack.


Already had
KGdaBom
Head Coach
Posts: 7,069
And1: 1,467
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#95 » by KGdaBom » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:41 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Klomp wrote:I think Bates-Diop will spend a lot of time in Iowa

First I've heard of Iowa talk. Minimus sees this he will have a heart attack.


Already had

Sorry man. I think the consensus is that KBD is going to be pretty far down the pecking order. Probably 11th at best.
User avatar
Killboard
Veteran
Posts: 2,850
And1: 698
Joined: Jul 16, 2010

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#96 » by Killboard » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:25 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:First I've heard of Iowa talk. Minimus sees this he will have a heart attack.


Already had

Sorry man. I think the consensus is that KBD is going to be pretty far down the pecking order. Probably 11th at best.


I think he will have a shot to be in the rotation, but he has to earn it, specially if he takes (and makes) the open 3. If he becomes good at that, the could take playing time from other rotation players. If he does not, is likely he end ups in Iowa.
Jedzz
Analyst
Posts: 3,466
And1: 867
Joined: Oct 05, 2018
   

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#97 » by Jedzz » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:42 pm

Killboard wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
Already had

Sorry man. I think the consensus is that KBD is going to be pretty far down the pecking order. Probably 11th at best.


I think he will have a shot to be in the rotation, but he has to earn it, specially if he takes (and makes) the open 3. If he becomes good at that, the could take playing time from other rotation players. If he does not, is likely he end ups in Iowa.


Agree, and yet if he reaches the 40% mark on 3s they might cut him. :banghead:
These are my opinions.
User avatar
Killboard
Veteran
Posts: 2,850
And1: 698
Joined: Jul 16, 2010

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#98 » by Killboard » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:53 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Killboard wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Sorry man. I think the consensus is that KBD is going to be pretty far down the pecking order. Probably 11th at best.


I think he will have a shot to be in the rotation, but he has to earn it, specially if he takes (and makes) the open 3. If he becomes good at that, the could take playing time from other rotation players. If he does not, is likely he end ups in Iowa.


Agree, and yet if he reaches the 40% mark on 3s they might cut him. :banghead:


I would say that if he isnt above 34% he is not in the roster next season.
Dewey
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,925
And1: 328
Joined: May 22, 2001

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#99 » by Dewey » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:06 pm

We will need a couple solid mid-range (8-15') shooters ... handful of guys need to be successful with short j-shots off the clock spots and elbows. If we can have some success form the arc, these will be the gaps that we will need to exploit. Team often have a couple goons who can set a decent screen and roll into space for a quick clean j-shot ... gotta have it.
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
KGdaBom
Head Coach
Posts: 7,069
And1: 1,467
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: We have a glut of bigs 

Post#100 » by KGdaBom » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:42 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Killboard wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Sorry man. I think the consensus is that KBD is going to be pretty far down the pecking order. Probably 11th at best.


I think he will have a shot to be in the rotation, but he has to earn it, specially if he takes (and makes) the open 3. If he becomes good at that, the could take playing time from other rotation players. If he does not, is likely he end ups in Iowa.


Agree, and yet if he reaches the 40% mark on 3s they might cut him. :banghead:

This is Minnesota. We don't do that round here son. :lol: Well except for KAT.

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves