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Modern basketball in MIN

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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#41 » by Note30 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:17 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
johanliebert wrote:why should we its college basketball. The talent level and game in general isnt the same as the NBA. OP came off as a guy who thinks he's an expert at coaching high level ball but really is just watching from his couch.


I looks like you have missed the point. If you watch modern NBA offenses than you might notice that they use same principles when we speak about positoinless offense, game concepts etc. HOU, GSW are bright examples of when to run set plays, or just start offense then read and react by using instincts and concepts.

Once again I don't give a rat's a$$ about it being modern or not. If it's modern and winning great. If it's modern and losing it sucks. Winning basketball is what matters.


Name one team playing older styles that is in contention.

Wake up old man.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#42 » by KGdaBom » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:50 pm

Note30 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
I looks like you have missed the point. If you watch modern NBA offenses than you might notice that they use same principles when we speak about positoinless offense, game concepts etc. HOU, GSW are bright examples of when to run set plays, or just start offense then read and react by using instincts and concepts.

Once again I don't give a rat's a$$ about it being modern or not. If it's modern and winning great. If it's modern and losing it sucks. Winning basketball is what matters.


Name one team playing older styles that is in contention.

Wake up old man.

I don't give a rat's a$$ whether it's modern, old, retro, or archaic. If it's modern and losing it sucks. Winning basketball is what matters.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#43 » by beeshma » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:46 am

wolfen wrote:Essentially, it's my reaction after watching the first 2 game of pre-season, which of course, mean next to nothing, but knee jerk reactions for me are:

Negative
-Covington - I hope it's because he's still coming back after injury, but right now he's almost worthless on the offensive end. Looks slow, weak, and just does nothing with the ball to put any pressure on the defense.

Rambling on now... Cheers!


My biggest question mark going into the season is Covington. On Philly he was considered expendable. On the Wolves he showed last year that he can be a team leader on defense, an ally and supporter of KAT, and an incredibly streaky shooter who will hit dagger 3's on some nights, but on other nights will keep firing away and shoot his team out of a win. I don't think the question to ask if he is capable of being the 2nd best player on a championship team...because he is not! The question is whether he can be the 2nd best player on a playoff team. This season will provide us the answer. If RoCo is not capable of that, then this team is going nowhere, and we wait for Culver to develop, a free agent signing, etc.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#44 » by Klomp » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:52 pm

beeshma wrote:My biggest question mark going into the season is Covington. On Philly he was considered expendable. On the Wolves he showed last year that he can be a team leader on defense, an ally and supporter of KAT, and an incredibly streaky shooter who will hit dagger 3's on some nights, but on other nights will keep firing away and shoot his team out of a win. I don't think the question to ask if he is capable of being the 2nd best player on a championship team...because he is not! The question is whether he can be the 2nd best player on a playoff team. This season will provide us the answer. If RoCo is not capable of that, then this team is going nowhere, and we wait for Culver to develop, a free agent signing, etc.

Every player can be expendable depending on the offer. I don't think him being involved in a trade makes him any more of a question mark. The only question I have with him is health.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#45 » by beeshma » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:16 pm

Klomp wrote:
beeshma wrote:My biggest question mark going into the season is Covington. On Philly he was considered expendable. On the Wolves he showed last year that he can be a team leader on defense, an ally and supporter of KAT, and an incredibly streaky shooter who will hit dagger 3's on some nights, but on other nights will keep firing away and shoot his team out of a win. I don't think the question to ask if he is capable of being the 2nd best player on a championship team...because he is not! The question is whether he can be the 2nd best player on a playoff team. This season will provide us the answer. If RoCo is not capable of that, then this team is going nowhere, and we wait for Culver to develop, a free agent signing, etc.

Every player can be expendable depending on the offer. I don't think him being involved in a trade makes him any more of a question mark. The only question I have with him is health.


Who do you think will be the 2nd best player on the Wolves this season? I think it's RoCo, and the drop off to 3rd best is significant. That's not to say that Culver might be better someday, but I'm only asking about this season.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#46 » by KGdaBom » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:00 am

beeshma wrote:
Klomp wrote:
beeshma wrote:My biggest question mark going into the season is Covington. On Philly he was considered expendable. On the Wolves he showed last year that he can be a team leader on defense, an ally and supporter of KAT, and an incredibly streaky shooter who will hit dagger 3's on some nights, but on other nights will keep firing away and shoot his team out of a win. I don't think the question to ask if he is capable of being the 2nd best player on a championship team...because he is not! The question is whether he can be the 2nd best player on a playoff team. This season will provide us the answer. If RoCo is not capable of that, then this team is going nowhere, and we wait for Culver to develop, a free agent signing, etc.

Every player can be expendable depending on the offer. I don't think him being involved in a trade makes him any more of a question mark. The only question I have with him is health.


Who do you think will be the 2nd best player on the Wolves this season? I think it's RoCo, and the drop off to 3rd best is significant. That's not to say that Culver might be better someday, but I'm only asking about this season.

RoCo putting up awesome numbers last two games. Going for 20 boards tonight???????
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#47 » by Jedzz » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:36 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Once again I don't give a rat's a$$ about it being modern or not. If it's modern and winning great. If it's modern and losing it sucks. Winning basketball is what matters.


Name one team playing older styles that is in contention.

Wake up old man.

I don't give a rat's a$$ whether it's modern, old, retro, or archaic. If it's modern and losing it sucks. Winning basketball is what matters.
I'm going to side with KGd on this as I don't think even half the league's teams have the type of players to play the same as HOU or GSW does. Moreover, when some of these elite teams just jam star players together they end up with so much overlap of player types and position types that they have no choice but to play almost completely "positionless" and heavy switching all game. They lose one player, say a big, and their depth is gone and it's going to look new and "modern" as all get out. The facts are that they have the star players that make plays, sink ther buckets when it matters and that's all there is to it. These players are more effective at everything so it doesn't matter what you ask them to do. Their game IQ and talent just exceeds.

I think a lot of teams need to get back to fundamental tried and true basketball, and working the inside and net game to the point of overkill to compete with these whateveryouwanttocallit modern star jambalaya concepts.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#48 » by Jedzz » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:47 am

I wonder if anyone noticed that the Warriors used the 4th highest of Dunks by percentage of their offensive shot types.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#49 » by Worm Guts » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:53 am

Dunks are part of modern basketball. Threes and high percentage 2’s.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#50 » by Klomp » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:29 am

Jedzz wrote:I wonder if anyone noticed that the Warriors used the 4th highest of Dunks by percentage of their offensive shot types.

No one has said that dunks aren't a part of modern basketball or that 3-pointers should replace dunks. We're talking about reducing the midrange/long 2s.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#51 » by minimus » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:34 am

Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:I wonder if anyone noticed that the Warriors used the 4th highest of Dunks by percentage of their offensive shot types.

No one has said that dunks aren't a part of modern basketball or that 3-pointers should replace dunks. We're talking about reducing the midrange/long 2s.


AD and LeBron destroyed GSW. Dray Green alone can't handle AD, LeBron, McGee, Howard, too much size ===> too many easy dunks.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#52 » by Jedzz » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:27 pm

Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:I wonder if anyone noticed that the Warriors used the 4th highest of Dunks by percentage of their offensive shot types.

No one has said that dunks aren't a part of modern basketball or that 3-pointers should replace dunks. We're talking about reducing the midrange/long 2s.


Yes and that's fine. But no one has been asking them to Dunk more, and I think it's a huge portion to what frees up 3pt shooters for more open chances. When was the last time this was a large part of a Wolves offensive attack for a game? Not asking for them to increase these is just as bad as letting them continue shots you don't want them attempting.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#53 » by Worm Guts » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:27 pm

I think getting more high percentage shots has always been a part of everyone's plan. It's taking lower percentage 3 pointers over long 2 pointers where the change in modern basketball has taken place.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#54 » by Mattya » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:43 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:I wonder if anyone noticed that the Warriors used the 4th highest of Dunks by percentage of their offensive shot types.

No one has said that dunks aren't a part of modern basketball or that 3-pointers should replace dunks. We're talking about reducing the midrange/long 2s.


Yes and that's fine. But no one has been asking them to Dunk more, and I think it's a huge portion to what frees up 3pt shooters for more open chances. When was the last time this was a large part of a Wolves offensive attack for a game? Not asking for them to increase these is just as bad as letting them continue shots you don't want them attempting.


People complain about the lack of Wiggins driving to the basket and lack of plays run for a Towns post ups in almost every discussion on the Wolves offense.

Everyone wants to run a version of Houston's offense which is exclusively drives to the paint and 3 point shots.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#55 » by KGdaBom » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:18 pm

Worm Guts wrote:Dunks are part of modern basketball. Threes and high percentage 2’s.

The NBA has been dunking and shooting 3s since 1979. So modern basketball must go back 40 years. Being a little sarcastic I know they shoot MORE 3s now. Do they make more dunks now?
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#56 » by Worm Guts » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:21 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Dunks are part of modern basketball. Threes and high percentage 2’s.

The NBA has been dunking and shooting 3s since 1979. So modern basketball must go back 40 years. Being a little sarcastic I know they shoot MORE 3s now. Do they make more dunks now?


I’m pretty sure teams have always tried for as many dunks/layups as they can get. I wouldn’t be surprised if dunks are down though since teams are going to be more willing to settle for a 3.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#57 » by Jedzz » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:19 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Dunks are part of modern basketball. Threes and high percentage 2’s.

The NBA has been dunking and shooting 3s since 1979. So modern basketball must go back 40 years. Being a little sarcastic I know they shoot MORE 3s now. Do they make more dunks now?


I’m pretty sure teams have always tried for as many dunks/layups as they can get. I wouldn’t be surprised if dunks are down though since teams are going to be more willing to settle for a 3.


Well, I don't think we can really say they have always tried for as many Dunks as they can get. Layups are a different story that I'm not focusing on right now.

In 15/16 the Wolves were one rank higher than GSW. That of course would be a season with Wiggins(young Wigs), Lavine, Towns, Bazz. Players that were trying to dunk at times. Remember the high flying offense they were capable of that was stirring up Buzz about their future?

In our 1st round playoff season, Warriors were 2nd, Rockets were 6th, and Wolves were 12th (5.25%). Did you see any Wolves dunking once they were in the playoff series? At least getting up to 5.25% helped get us in. It was a part of those last couple games of the season that got us in.

Last season drops all the way down to 20th at 4%. That can't be claimed as trying. We had neither the personnel for it, nor the desire to do it.

Looking at winning playoff teams, they are in the high 6 to 7% range every season. Get there, go over it maybe to make up for our lousy efficiency at 3s. In 2012-13 season the Denver Nuggets (3 seed) were using Dunks at 9.97% and it got them 57 wins. It looks like the Wolves now have many more players capable of Dunking with some authority so we shouldn't have to wait on Wiggins' desire anymore. Let him go stand in his corner while others dunk and buy him a little space to get his 3 off.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#58 » by minimus » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:47 am

At 6’7″ with a 7’3″ wingspan, Martin has the perfect size and length to play on the wing in the NBA.


In case you wondered, how big Kelan Martin is. And worth mentioning: his weight is 235bs. He is a perfect material for modern basketball.
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#59 » by packforfreedom » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:29 pm

more athletic KBD with a worse shot?
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Re: Modern basketball in MIN 

Post#60 » by Killboard » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:59 pm

packforfreedom wrote:more athletic KBD with a worse shot?


He is likely a much better 3pt shooter. He does not have KBD size, but he plays bigger than he looks. I really like him in a limited role.

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