Constructing the Timberwolves rotation

[Klomp]

It'll be really interesting to see how the rotation shakes out. There are a lot of questions as we get going into training camp and preseason leading up to the regular season.

The questions start with who fills out the last spot in the likely starting lineup. I think most people agree four of the spots will go to Towns, Covington, Wiggins and Teague. But who will have the last spot? Do we go bigger or smaller? Do we have one set starting lineup for the season or does it change every day depending on the matchups? From there, what happens with the bench? Again, do we go with a pretty set group of guys or will it be completely random from game to game?

Personally, I believe the names in the rotation will be pretty set. I think one or two bench rotation spots could vary depending on the matchups, but the biggest change we'll see from game to game will be the minute allocation for players depending on the matchups and who's playing well.

What say you?

[wesleyt95]

Start Okogie early on, use Culver as 6th man playmaker... eventually swap Teague for Culver @ pg... Vonleh against 76ers, Lakers, Bucks. If Culver isn't a true pg idc it's still beneficial to his development, it doesn't have to be a longterm thing.

[wesleyt95]

I want our bench unit to be Culver, Nowell, Layman, Vonleh, Dieng... Bell and KBD get some min as well

[Klomp]

Personally, I believe the names in the rotation will be pretty set. I think one or two bench rotation spots could vary depending on the matchups, but the biggest change we'll see from game to game will be the minute allocation for players depending on the matchups and who's playing well.

Putting names to this, here's my current opinion about the rotation.

Towns
Covington
Wiggins
Teague
----------
Layman
Culver
Okogie
Bell
-----
Napier
----------
Vonleh
Dieng
Graham
Bates-Diop
----------
Nowell
Reid
-----
McLaughlin
Martin
-----
Murphy
Wigginton

That should make sense to those who read the original post. However, in case some people need further explanation.....

I believe Towns, Covington, Wiggins and Teague are pretty set as starters. The fifth spot is up for grabs among Layman, Culver, Okogie and Bell, depending on the situation/matchups. The three in that group who don't start will be in the bench rotation along with Napier for a solid 9-man group that will be pretty consistent. The 10th spot in the rotation could go to either Vonleh or Dieng for a bigger lineup or Graham or Bates-Diop if they want to go smaller with more switching. If another guard is needed they can put in Nowell, though I really think he and Reid will spend a bunch of time in Iowa along with 2-way guys McLaughlin and Martin plus Exhibit 10 guys Murphy and Wigginton.

[K4P]

I think Vonleh is over Bell in the rotation.

[Klomp]

I think Vonleh is over Bell in the rotation.

That's possible. Those two were probably the two I had the hardest time placing. Basically, I think one will be a regular and one will be matchup-dependent. But with Bell's greater defensive versatility, I think it gives him a slight bump up.

[wesleyt95]

Culver and Okogie over Layman

[Jedzz]

Personally, I believe the names in the rotation will be pretty set. I think one or two bench rotation spots could vary depending on the matchups, but the biggest change we'll see from game to game will be the minute allocation for players depending on the matchups and who's playing well.

Putting names to this, here's my current opinion about the rotation.

Towns
Covington
Wiggins
Teague
----------
Layman
Culver
Okogie
Bell
-----
Napier
----------
Vonleh
Dieng
Graham
Bates-Diop
----------
Nowell
Reid
-----
McLaughlin
Martin
-----
Murphy
Wigginton

That should make sense to those who read the original post. However, in case some people need further explanation.....

I believe Towns, Covington, Wiggins and Teague are pretty set as starters. The fifth spot is up for grabs among Layman, Culver, Okogie and Bell, depending on the situation/matchups. The three in that group who don't start will be in the bench rotation along with Napier for a solid 9-man group that will be pretty consistent. The 10th spot in the rotation could go to either Vonleh or Dieng for a bigger lineup or Graham or Bates-Diop if they want to go smaller with more switching. If another guard is needed they can put in Nowell, though I really think he and Reid will spend a bunch of time in Iowa along with 2-way guys McLaughlin and Martin plus Exhibit 10 guys Murphy and Wigginton.

Please explain this Graham business. I already expect Martin and Mclaughlin to be better than him most days based on what they showed this summer, and Nowell because I believe he can shoot the lights out at this level and has great BBIQ and plays well with others having the focus, but he remains to be seen. How is Graham going to get this free nod? You think he's going to outplay these guys in preseason prep? Martin is only a year younger.

I still feel Graham failed hardcore last season when he got a chance at 20 mins a game. His FG% dropped to 34%, his threes dropped to .297 on 3.7 attempts/game. Easily all his highest shot attempts and minutes and everything fell. I have a feeling one of our coaches with connections to the Long Island Ice Teas connected these dots. But the positions he would play for Wolves are loaded with players that haven't failed yet and I want to see them before this guy. Nothing personal but I just don't buy into a guy dropping that hard at everything once reaching 20 minutes. .458 TS% for Brooklyn. The good news is he couldn't hit a 10-16 ft shot if he tried, so I doubt they let him try. Something didn't work for him in Brooklyn like it did in Charlotte. What was it? His usage% stayed about the same.

[Klomp]

Please explain this Graham business. I already expect Martin and Mclaughlin to be better than him most days based on what they showed this summer, and Nowell because I believe he can shoot the lights out at this level and has great BBIQ and plays well with others having the focus, but he remains to be seen. How is Graham going to get this free nod? You think he's going to outplay these guys in preseason prep? Martin is only a year younger.

I still feel Graham failed hardcore last season when he got a chance at 20 mins a game. His FG% dropped to 34%, his threes dropped to .297 on 3.7 attempts/game. Easily all his highest shot attempts and minutes and everything fell. I have a feeling one of our coaches with connections to the Long Island Ice Teas connected these dots. But the positions he would play for Wolves are loaded with players that haven't failed yet and I want to see them before this guy. Nothing personal but I just don't buy into a guy dropping that hard at everything once reaching 20 minutes. .458 TS% for Brooklyn. The good news is he couldn't hit a 10-16 ft shot if he tried, so I doubt they let him try. Something didn't work for him in Brooklyn like it did in Charlotte. What was it? His usage% stayed about the same.

Never said anything about a free nod. Not saying anything about him averaging 20 mpg either. I put him in a group of four people fighting for the 10th spot in the rotation in each game depending if we want to play big or small. That's like a 10-15 mpg role.

Also want to point out that you have him pegged as something he's not. You put him at a "loaded" position group with "guys who haven't failed yet" in Martin, McLaughlin and Nowell. Only problem is they don't play his position group (SF/PF). I guess maybe Martin does, but McLaughlin and Nowell definitely don't. And Martin is on a 2-way deal right now so he probably will spend most of his season in Iowa unless something changes contractually before the season ends.

There's also this I took from a radio interview on media day:

Who's someone who maybe we're not talking about now but has captured your attention and is going to fight to make this team or might end up playing a lot more minutes than a lot of us perceive?
"I'm fortunate that I have two or three (goes on to talk first about Josh Okogie and Noah Vonleh).....There's a guy who, it's not pretty but the guy is super tough and plays super hard. Treveon Graham has really stood out here in workouts and competition. He comes from a system.that's similar to ours in Brooklyn so he's got a good feel for what we're doing here and his toughess, physicality and competitiveness have really stood out." -Gersson Rosas on WCCO Radio

Back to Graham, it's easy to just look at the season stats from last year and assume he sucks at shooting. But the year before last, he 41% from 3-point range. And in his senior year of college, he shot 38%.

He was fighting through multiple injuries last year.

After just two games, Graham suffered a hamstring injury that caused him to miss more than two months. Upon his return, Graham dealt with a back injury. In total, he played in just 35 games.

That was tough for the third-year player to find his rhythm.

“Last year, it took a dip. I was injured for a little while and it kind of took a dip,” Graham said in the latest episode of The Layup Line. “When my confidence is up and I’m kind of feeling it, my shot is as good as it was back then.”

https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/expect-better-shooting-numbers-treveon-graham-2019-20

I'm not expecting him to be Klay Thompson or Steph Curry for us as a shooter, but I think he'll be better than 30%. I'm not expecting a starting-quality player, but he can at least be the last man in a rotation. Like you said, I think one of our coaches with connections to the Nets connected these dots, and he's here to make an impact even though he's not being given a free nod.

[wolves_89]

Here's my take on how the rotation shakes out.

Definite starters:
Teague
Wiggins
Covington
Towns

Definite rotation players:
Napier
Okogie
Culver
Layman

Competing for rotation minutes (may see match-up based minutes):
Vonleh
Dieng
Bell

Non-rotation depth:
Graham
Bates-Diop

G-League:
Nowell
Reid
McLaughlin
Martin

[KGdaBom]

Culver is going to start it's just a question of when. My best guess is it will be day one.

KAT
RoCo
Wiggins
Culver
Teague

Top reserves
Napier
Okogie
Layman
Vonleh
Dieng

that's the players getting the bulk of the minutes
Guy who will eke out a little PT
Bell

Everybody else only in emergencies or blowouts.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Teague, Wiggs, Cov, and Kat as the starters.

Eventhough teague will start, I think he and napier will split time with the starters.

5th starter will probably be layman until Culver is ready.

Culver/layman, Okogie, Bell, Vonleh, and napier will round out the bench.

I think Dieng and KBD become the odd men out.

[KGdaBom]

Teague, Wiggs, Cov, and Kat as the starters.

Eventhough teague will start, I think he and napier will split time with the starters.

5th starter will probably be layman until Culver is ready.

Culver/layman, Okogie, Bell, Vonleh, and napier will round out the bench.

I think Dieng and KBD become the odd men out.

I know we want to go youth movement and all that, but Dieng demonstrated down the stretch last year that he still has valuable NBA skills. To leave him out just to fit some kind of preconceived notion IMO would be a large mistake.

[SmokeyPaw]

Teague, Wiggs, Cov, and Kat as the starters.

Eventhough teague will start, I think he and napier will split time with the starters.

5th starter will probably be layman until Culver is ready.

Culver/layman, Okogie, Bell, Vonleh, and napier will round out the bench.

I think Dieng and KBD become the odd men out.

I know we want to go youth movement and all that, but Dieng demonstrated down the stretch last year that he still has valuable NBA skills. To leave him out just to fit some kind of preconceived notion IMO would be a large mistake.

I think he'll get his chance. Basically there are minutes available for bigs in backing up KAT and as a 4 when we're forced to go big. Dieng, Vonleh and Bell are competing for those minutes. We dont have much of a committment to Vonleh or Bell. Both are on one year contracts without bird rights. If Dieng is productive, and he has been with KAT in the past, I expect he'll get minutes. Its on Bell and Vonleh to show that they deserve those minutes.

[minimus]

Teague, Wiggs, Cov, and Kat as the starters.

Eventhough teague will start, I think he and napier will split time with the starters.

5th starter will probably be layman until Culver is ready.

Culver/layman, Okogie, Bell, Vonleh, and napier will round out the bench.

I think Dieng and KBD become the odd men out.

I know we want to go youth movement and all that, but Dieng demonstrated down the stretch last year that he still has valuable NBA skills. To leave him out just to fit some kind of preconceived notion IMO would be a large mistake.

I think he'll get his chance. Basically there are minutes available for bigs in backing up KAT and as a 4 when we're forced to go big. Dieng, Vonleh and Bell are competing for those minutes. We dont have much of a committment to Vonleh or Bell. Both are on one year contracts without bird rights. If Dieng is productive, and he has been with KAT in the past, I expect he'll get minutes. Its on Bell and Vonleh to show that they deserve those minutes.

Dieng is 10 minutes player in current NBA. Sorry.

[Klomp]

I think he'll get his chance. Basically there are minutes available for bigs in backing up KAT and as a 4 when we're forced to go big. Dieng, Vonleh and Bell are competing for those minutes. We dont have much of a committment to Vonleh or Bell. Both are on one year contracts without bird rights. If Dieng is productive, and he has been with KAT in the past, I expect he'll get minutes. Its on Bell and Vonleh to show that they deserve those minutes.

Dieng is 10 minutes player in current NBA. Sorry.

I don't think anything Smokey said argued otherwise.

[Grubie024]

Is it conceivable that either Vonleh or Dieng start against teams with a bruiser C?
Seems the #1 priority is putting KAT in a position to succeed, and matching one of those two against a big C is definitely one way to do it.

[KGdaBom]

I know we want to go youth movement and all that, but Dieng demonstrated down the stretch last year that he still has valuable NBA skills. To leave him out just to fit some kind of preconceived notion IMO would be a large mistake.

I think he'll get his chance. Basically there are minutes available for bigs in backing up KAT and as a 4 when we're forced to go big. Dieng, Vonleh and Bell are competing for those minutes. We dont have much of a committment to Vonleh or Bell. Both are on one year contracts without bird rights. If Dieng is productive, and he has been with KAT in the past, I expect he'll get minutes. Its on Bell and Vonleh to show that they deserve those minutes.

Dieng is 10 minutes player in current NBA. Sorry.

Why are you sorry?

[Klomp]

Personally, I believe the names in the rotation will be pretty set. I think one or two bench rotation spots could vary depending on the matchups, but the biggest change we'll see from game to game will be the minute allocation for players depending on the matchups and who's playing well.

Putting names to this, here's my current opinion about the rotation.

Towns
Covington
Wiggins
Teague
----------
Layman
Culver
Okogie
Bell
-----
Napier
----------
Vonleh
Dieng
Graham
Bates-Diop
----------
Nowell
Reid
-----
McLaughlin
Martin
-----
Murphy
Wigginton

That should make sense to those who read the original post. However, in case some people need further explanation.....

I believe Towns, Covington, Wiggins and Teague are pretty set as starters. The fifth spot is up for grabs among Layman, Culver, Okogie and Bell, depending on the situation/matchups. The three in that group who don't start will be in the bench rotation along with Napier for a solid 9-man group that will be pretty consistent. The 10th spot in the rotation could go to either Vonleh or Dieng for a bigger lineup or Graham or Bates-Diop if they want to go smaller with more switching. If another guard is needed they can put in Nowell, though I really think he and Reid will spend a bunch of time in Iowa along with 2-way guys McLaughlin and Martin plus Exhibit 10 guys Murphy and Wigginton.

I made this post at the very start of training camp, but I gotta say I don't see major change based on preseason. Biggest change I'd make is on the bench, where I'd move Graham all the way up to the group of guys in line for the fifth starting spot. Would then maybe move KBD down into the group with Nowell and Reid, and put Bell down into a tier with the other two bigs.

Towns
Covington
Wiggins
Teague
----------
Layman
Culver
Okogie
Graham
-----
Napier
----------
Bell
Vonleh
Dieng
----------
Bates-Diop
Nowell
Reid
-----
McLaughlin
Martin
-----
Murphy
Wigginton
(Brown)
(Battle)

[southern wolf]

I like the idea of bringing Culver off the bench as the sixth man scoring punch at least to start off with.